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Rich
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6/16/2006  12:53 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by Rich:

What exactly is "relevant credibility"?

IMO, that's an excuse for Larry's histrionics.

See also: Something Stephon Marbury or Steve Francis doesn't have.

Granted, but they're players who should be taught how to win by a coach, not ridiculed in the papers in one case, or the subject of shifting affections in the other.
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nyk4ever
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6/16/2006  12:59 PM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by Rich:

What exactly is "relevant credibility"?

IMO, that's an excuse for Larry's histrionics.

See also: Something Stephon Marbury or Steve Francis doesn't have.

Granted, but they're players who should be taught how to win by a coach, not ridiculed in the papers in one case, or the subject of shifting affections in the other.

This is ridiculous. These players should know how to win, they've been in the league for years. If we can see what the problem is then they shouldnt have much of a problem realizing that when if they would just give up and harness their game that it would make the Knicks better Alas, Marbury hasn't gotten that for 3 years. Maybe they are delusional. Uhoh, better not have said that.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 06-16-2006 12:59 PM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
holfresh
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6/16/2006  1:05 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Do you think LB was trying to lose? Or was he trying to figure out a way to a title a few years from now and who he wanted to keep around for that?

I have not answered this question so don't say what my opinion is. I am just asking.



Bip you just kill me everytime...You are a coach Bip right?...How on god's earth is Brown trying to win titles by tanking this season...What am I missing in this translation....How was he trying to win with no set lineup...Do you really think it's inaccurate to say that the players sensed the getting to the playoffs wasn't a priority...You always call out the players for quitting...Is this not an example ot Larry quitting...
Bippity10
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6/16/2006  1:10 PM
Holfresh: Please reread the original post very carefully.
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Bippity10
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6/16/2006  1:12 PM
The disclaimer at the bottom was specifically written so that people like you would once again not jump to conclusions as to what my opinion was.
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holfresh
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6/16/2006  1:26 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

The disclaimer at the bottom was specifically written so that people like you would once again not jump to conclusions as to what my opinion was.



Bip it has been your contention since I began posting that the team quit on Larry Brown...My contention has been always Larry was the first to quit on him team...As a result of Larry quitting, the players stopped playing hard for him...This has always been a hurdle between you and I...That disclaimer is just another example of you attemping to claim you are on the fence on this issue when we both know better.....
Rich
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6/16/2006  1:29 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by Rich:

What exactly is "relevant credibility"?

IMO, that's an excuse for Larry's histrionics.

See also: Something Stephon Marbury or Steve Francis doesn't have.

Granted, but they're players who should be taught how to win by a coach, not ridiculed in the papers in one case, or the subject of shifting affections in the other.

This is ridiculous. These players should know how to win, they've been in the league for years. If we can see what the problem is then they shouldnt have much of a problem realizing that when if they would just give up and harness their game that it would make the Knicks better Alas, Marbury hasn't gotten that for 3 years. Maybe they are delusional. Uhoh, better not have said that.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 06-16-2006 12:59 PM]

Whether they should or not, they obviously don't. It then seems rather obvious that it falls on the coach, especially one who is supposedly as good as Larry, who continually professes to believe in playing the right way, to teach them.
djsunyc
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6/16/2006  1:33 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Bippity10:

The disclaimer at the bottom was specifically written so that people like you would once again not jump to conclusions as to what my opinion was.



Bip it has been your contention since I began posting that the team quit on Larry Brown...My contention has been always Larry was the first to quit on him team...As a result of Larry quitting, the players stopped playing hard for him...This has always been a hurdle between you and I...That disclaimer is just another example of you attemping to claim you are on the fence on this issue when we both know better.....


since our roster is primarily a younger one, 26 and younger, with our "vets" being mainly guys like marbury and mo (before jalen + francis), how do our players know that a coach has quit on them?

do our rookies know when a coach quits on them? or guys like jamal or quentin even tho they continued to play hard all the way through the season? or jackie or qyntel?

i don't think they know. but guys like marbury and mo who have a negative history regarding coaches or relationships with teammates/motivation would take on that view. so when guys like that feel it, it may filter down to the younger players b/c they don't know any better (b/c of their youth). and combine that with a gm who may side with them as well and you get a group of guys "quitting" on their coach.

now, let's say our "vets" were jamal and quentin and we didn't have marbury or mo. maybe the team doesn't quit (like they didn't) and they continue to play hard and the season goes in a different direction.
Bippity10
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6/16/2006  1:38 PM
Again Holfresh you are missing one huge enormous key to my opinion that you blind yourself to because you have convinced yourself that I feel LB is a god and that I feel he has done nothing wrong.

I have said from the beginning going on 1,000,000 times now, but you yourself choose to ignore it. I have no problem with the players having a problem with LB. I have no problem with all the players hating LB. I have no problem with the players asking Isiah to get a new coach. I have no problem with any of this. This is their right as men. But when they are on the court, they don't play "for LB". They play for the Knicks, themselves and the fans of NY. And if you hate the coach and want him fired you still get your as-s on the court and earn that 50 bazillion dollar pay check. The world isn't perfect. Things suck at times. You may hate your boss or your coach. But when you are on the court you give 100% effort regardless of the situation. Your 23 win team did not do this. I also don't anticipate them doing it for another coach either.

As for the question at hand. I have never answered this question definitively despite your assumptions. LB may be as senile as anyone on the planet. Or he may have had legitimate reasons. As a coach I know enough to know that fans never know what is going on. They see stats and nice plays on the court and that is how they determine minutes. But there is so much more behind the scenes that we simply don't know about. Is a guy consistently out of position on D. Is he forgetting plays. Is he tired and asking out. Millions of other reasons for guys coming out of games. Because I am a coach I tend not to question rotations and why guys are in and out of games. So to answer my own question(without your help) I say I DON'T KNOW. I'm not concerned with why guys got x amount of minutes. What I'm concerned with is why half our team is built of guys that have shown a history of coming into camps out of shape, not listening to coaches, complaining about systems and not playing hard. I am a Knick fan nnot an LB or Marbs or Frye fan. I want a team that I love to watch. Not a team of guys that whine and search for excuse after excuse as to why they didn't play hard the night before. I would ratehr have the Shanvis Wardight Eisleyspoonington III mess, than this crap. They stunk but at least I knew I was getting an honest effort everynight
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newyorknewyork
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6/16/2006  1:44 PM
If this was a negative quote about Marbury though some of you guy would be all over it. But since its about Brown you question it. Which tells me that news paper info to some of you is only true when it is convientent for your stance on things.

I don't know how much truth it has to it though. It could be the media trying to create more drama. Even if the players did feel that way. It doesn't mean its true. And even if the coach did appear angrier. Maybe it was because he was more motivated because he actually saw some fight. There is to many things we don't know. Though I could easily see how it would fit in with the theory how Brown tanked the season.

If it was true about him using the season as a training camp though. Thats just wrong. We have fans paying top dollar to come see the Knicks. And we also gave up our draft pick to the bulls. This was just the wrong season to have done so.
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holfresh
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6/16/2006  1:52 PM
I really have a hard time understanding how a team can be committed ti winning when the coach isn't committed to winning...How can a team be ask to play hard and win games when the coach is doing everything to make sure that doesn't happen..Then everyone here can't wait to blame the players for not doing their part...Calling them lazy and not dedicated to their craft...Funny thing is, you all know that Larry wan't trying to win games, but yet you want to see more of that next season...And tell us all don't worry, Larry is trying to get them to play the right way...Bull. playing the right way is winning games period...



[Edited by - holfresh on 06-16-2006 1:54 PM]
Bippity10
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6/16/2006  1:53 PM
newyork: When is it the right season to start building for long term success instead of doing everything we can to make the 8th seed?

Disclaimer: This question has nothing to do with LB and everything to do with the next 2 or 3 moves our GM makes
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djsunyc
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6/16/2006  1:54 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

If this was a negative quote about Marbury though some of you guy would be all over it. But since its about Brown you question it. Which tells me that news paper info to some of you is only true when it is convientent for your stance on things.

I don't know how much truth it has to it though. It could be the media trying to create more drama. Even if the players did feel that way. It doesn't mean its true. And even if the coach did appear angrier. Maybe it was because he was more motivated because he actually saw some fight. There is to many things we don't know. Though I could easily see how it would fit in with the theory how Brown tanked the season.

If it was true about him using the season as a training camp though. Thats just wrong. We have fans paying top dollar to come see the Knicks. And we also gave up our draft pick to the bulls. This was just the wrong season to have done so.

i think it depends on who's writing it. it's pretty apparent that berman is on an anti-lb agenda as evidenced by all the hits he gives him. if this was lupica or even vescey, then there would be a little more cred.
holfresh
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6/16/2006  1:55 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

If this was a negative quote about Marbury though some of you guy would be all over it. But since its about Brown you question it. Which tells me that news paper info to some of you is only true when it is convientent for your stance on things.

I don't know how much truth it has to it though. It could be the media trying to create more drama. Even if the players did feel that way. It doesn't mean its true. And even if the coach did appear angrier. Maybe it was because he was more motivated because he actually saw some fight. There is to many things we don't know. Though I could easily see how it would fit in with the theory how Brown tanked the season.

If it was true about him using the season as a training camp though. Thats just wrong. We have fans paying top dollar to come see the Knicks. And we also gave up our draft pick to the bulls. This was just the wrong season to have done so.

i think it depends on who's writing it. it's pretty apparent that berman is on an anti-lb agenda as evidenced by all the hits he gives him. if this was lupica or even vescey, then there would be a little more cred.



Take it from me, Berman is not anti-Larry...Lupica has no cred at all...Have you ever seen Lupica say anything negative about Brwon...





[Edited by - holfresh on 06-16-2006 1:57 PM]
Bippity10
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6/16/2006  2:13 PM
Posted by holfresh:

I really have a hard time understanding how a team can be committed ti winning when the coach isn't committed to winning...How can a team be ask to play hard and win games when the coach is doing everything to make sure that doesn't happen..Then everyone here can't wait to blame the players for not doing their part...Calling them lazy and not dedicated to their craft...Funny thing is, you all know that Larry wan't trying to win games, but yet you want to see more of that next season...And tell us all don't worry, Larry is trying to get them to play the right way...Bull. playing the right way is winning games period...



[Edited by - holfresh on 06-16-2006 1:54 PM]

Holfresh: I don't mean to insult you but that's a question with a loser bent to it. I have played basketball(and sports in general) for close to 30 years now. Not once in my life have I needed a coach to determine whether I play to win or not. I always play to win. That's why I play. That's the type of player I want on my team. Bitc-h and moan about the coach but bust your as-s on the court. ARe you kidding me with that question???? ARe you really willing to accept that from your players????? Unreal

I think the bottom line for some is this. Probably about 30% of the board came into the season(even after LB was hired) and complained about the roster. We complained about building a team filled with guys with a history of creating problems, not working hard and thousands of other question marks. We are the same people that are complaining about the players now. I went on record as saying the day he was hired that LB was a good hire but that he would not change who we were as a team. I warned day after day after day that LB would not turn us into Phoenix East. I said over and over again for 5 straight seasons that Lenny Wilkens, and Chaney and Herb and now LB were not our problems. The problem is our roster and this nasty losing atmosphere that we have created here. For 5 years I have been saying it and every year when I say it again someone calls me an LB lover, a Chaney lover a Lenny Lover a Herb lover. This is why I say "the more things change, oh wait they don't".

The Knicks need to make progress. The Knicks need to change the culture. LB had a bad year. Fire him, keep him, whatever. It does not matter. But sorry fans, it's just another smoke screen. When it happens we will celebrate that we finally "got the guy", and once again next offseason we will be doing the exact same thing. Only this time we will be firing Isiah. We need to change the culture. LB is just another vicitim of it.
I just hope that people will like me
bigbeast
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6/16/2006  2:27 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Again Holfresh you are missing one huge enormous key to my opinion that you blind yourself to because you have convinced yourself that I feel LB is a god and that I feel he has done nothing wrong.

I have said from the beginning going on 1,000,000 times now, but you yourself choose to ignore it. I have no problem with the players having a problem with LB. I have no problem with all the players hating LB. I have no problem with the players asking Isiah to get a new coach. I have no problem with any of this. This is their right as men. But when they are on the court, they don't play "for LB". They play for the Knicks, themselves and the fans of NY. And if you hate the coach and want him fired you still get your as-s on the court and earn that 50 bazillion dollar pay check. The world isn't perfect. Things suck at times. You may hate your boss or your coach. But when you are on the court you give 100% effort regardless of the situation. Your 23 win team did not do this. I also don't anticipate them doing it for another coach either.

As for the question at hand. I have never answered this question definitively despite your assumptions. LB may be as senile as anyone on the planet. Or he may have had legitimate reasons. As a coach I know enough to know that fans never know what is going on. They see stats and nice plays on the court and that is how they determine minutes. But there is so much more behind the scenes that we simply don't know about. Is a guy consistently out of position on D. Is he forgetting plays. Is he tired and asking out. Millions of other reasons for guys coming out of games. Because I am a coach I tend not to question rotations and why guys are in and out of games. So to answer my own question(without your help) I say I DON'T KNOW. I'm not concerned with why guys got x amount of minutes. What I'm concerned with is why half our team is built of guys that have shown a history of coming into camps out of shape, not listening to coaches, complaining about systems and not playing hard. I am a Knick fan nnot an LB or Marbs or Frye fan. I want a team that I love to watch. Not a team of guys that whine and search for excuse after excuse as to why they didn't play hard the night before. I would ratehr have the Shanvis Wardight Eisleyspoonington III mess, than this crap. They stunk but at least I knew I was getting an honest effort everynight

The same applies for Next-Town-Brown. He owes it to the Knicks organization (who is paying him handsomely)and the fans to get on the sidelines and earn his "50 bazillion dollar check".

And you cannot say with astute certainty that Next-Town-Brown gave an honest effort either.
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
Bippity10
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6/16/2006  2:38 PM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by Bippity10:

Again Holfresh you are missing one huge enormous key to my opinion that you blind yourself to because you have convinced yourself that I feel LB is a god and that I feel he has done nothing wrong.

I have said from the beginning going on 1,000,000 times now, but you yourself choose to ignore it. I have no problem with the players having a problem with LB. I have no problem with all the players hating LB. I have no problem with the players asking Isiah to get a new coach. I have no problem with any of this. This is their right as men. But when they are on the court, they don't play "for LB". They play for the Knicks, themselves and the fans of NY. And if you hate the coach and want him fired you still get your as-s on the court and earn that 50 bazillion dollar pay check. The world isn't perfect. Things suck at times. You may hate your boss or your coach. But when you are on the court you give 100% effort regardless of the situation. Your 23 win team did not do this. I also don't anticipate them doing it for another coach either.

As for the question at hand. I have never answered this question definitively despite your assumptions. LB may be as senile as anyone on the planet. Or he may have had legitimate reasons. As a coach I know enough to know that fans never know what is going on. They see stats and nice plays on the court and that is how they determine minutes. But there is so much more behind the scenes that we simply don't know about. Is a guy consistently out of position on D. Is he forgetting plays. Is he tired and asking out. Millions of other reasons for guys coming out of games. Because I am a coach I tend not to question rotations and why guys are in and out of games. So to answer my own question(without your help) I say I DON'T KNOW. I'm not concerned with why guys got x amount of minutes. What I'm concerned with is why half our team is built of guys that have shown a history of coming into camps out of shape, not listening to coaches, complaining about systems and not playing hard. I am a Knick fan nnot an LB or Marbs or Frye fan. I want a team that I love to watch. Not a team of guys that whine and search for excuse after excuse as to why they didn't play hard the night before. I would ratehr have the Shanvis Wardight Eisleyspoonington III mess, than this crap. They stunk but at least I knew I was getting an honest effort everynight

The same applies for Next-Town-Brown. He owes it to the Knicks organization (who is paying him handsomely)and the fans to get on the sidelines and earn his "50 bazillion dollar check".

And you cannot say with astute certainty that Next-Town-Brown gave an honest effort either.

Why does it have to be one way or the other with you people. We won 23 games, THEY ALL STUNK!!!! All of them, coach included. Why must we find one guy to blame all the time. LB stunk. That does not mean he MUST BE FIRED. Marbs was a problem, that does not mean he must be traded. What it means is that we must decide on a course of action, develop a plan and regardless of how they played/coached this year, figure out who fits into that long-term plan and stick to it. We don't do any of this. Instead we go year by year. Trade away entire rosters. Change who we build around every season, fire the coach every season. There is no continuity, no set plan. Just do what it takes to save your job and that's it.

Enough. If I say LB did a bad job that does not mean I hate Marbs. If I say Marbs is an issue and that we need to hold the players accountable first that does not mean I think LB is a god and that we should follow everythign he says. We hired LB to do a job. Just like we hired Lenny and Don and Herb. At some point we are going to have to realize that there is no magic coach and that they all need their type of players. You come up with a philosophy, hire a coach that fits that philosophy and then get players that buy into that. Until then we will always be left blaming every coach and wondering why nothing changes. We need to have a long term plan and stick to it. Stability wins, chaos and "getting the one to blame" does nothing for us. It makes us feel better for 3 months than the next season starts and we will be calling Bippity an Isiah lover.
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holfresh
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6/16/2006  2:40 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by holfresh:

I really have a hard time understanding how a team can be committed ti winning when the coach isn't committed to winning...How can a team be ask to play hard and win games when the coach is doing everything to make sure that doesn't happen..Then everyone here can't wait to blame the players for not doing their part...Calling them lazy and not dedicated to their craft...Funny thing is, you all know that Larry wan't trying to win games, but yet you want to see more of that next season...And tell us all don't worry, Larry is trying to get them to play the right way...Bull. playing the right way is winning games period...



[Edited by - holfresh on 06-16-2006 1:54 PM]

Holfresh: I don't mean to insult you but that's a question with a loser bent to it. I have played basketball(and sports in general) for close to 30 years now. Not once in my life have I needed a coach to determine whether I play to win or not. I always play to win. That's why I play. That's the type of player I want on my team. Bitc-h and moan about the coach but bust your as-s on the court. ARe you kidding me with that question???? ARe you really willing to accept that from your players????? Unreal

I think the bottom line for some is this. Probably about 30% of the board came into the season(even after LB was hired) and complained about the roster. We complained about building a team filled with guys with a history of creating problems, not working hard and thousands of other question marks. We are the same people that are complaining about the players now. I went on record as saying the day he was hired that LB was a good hire but that he would not change who we were as a team. I warned day after day after day that LB would not turn us into Phoenix East. I said over and over again for 5 straight seasons that Lenny Wilkens, and Chaney and Herb and now LB were not our problems. The problem is our roster and this nasty losing atmosphere that we have created here. For 5 years I have been saying it and every year when I say it again someone calls me an LB lover, a Chaney lover a Lenny Lover a Herb lover. This is why I say "the more things change, oh wait they don't".

The Knicks need to make progress. The Knicks need to change the culture. LB had a bad year. Fire him, keep him, whatever. It does not matter. But sorry fans, it's just another smoke screen. When it happens we will celebrate that we finally "got the guy", and once again next offseason we will be doing the exact same thing. Only this time we will be firing Isiah. We need to change the culture. LB is just another vicitim of it.



Bip please don't take this the wrong way, but don't be an idoit....As a coach, you of all people should know that a team isn't winning games if the coach is not on board with the program...I have never played at that level but I know it takes all hands on board to create a winning culture..I submit this to you Bip, I don't care what team it is, If the coach isn't trying to win then you are not winning games...If Larry Brwon was the coach of the Dallas Mavericks or the Heat and did the same things he did with the Knicks, no way they are playing for the Championship right now...Do you dispute that assessment?

It is very easy to blame the players for their efforts, but during the course of an 82 game season, it is very easy to get discouraged when it is obvious the coach isn't trying to get to the playoffs...I really don't understand how you can dismiss this as not being a factor in the overall effort of the team....In my opinion and I could be wrong, it is the most critical ingredient to being successful...The leader of the team must lead...If you leader is tanking it, no team on earth has a chance to be successful...It is impossible!!!!...Dude, if Larry isn't pointing the way to victory, Who is Bip....Are you really putting this on the players shoulders????


Larry is not a victim here bro, he is the architect of this mess...Everone know the roster is flawed, you can't put a Championship roster together using the pieces Layden had in place, it's not happening...It takes time, but it's the coach's responsibility to lead his team into battle...Players feed of that emotionally, if they sense your leader isn't trying to win then the effort won't be there....That is universal, not something unique to the Knicks....
Bippity10
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6/16/2006  2:51 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by holfresh:

I really have a hard time understanding how a team can be committed ti winning when the coach isn't committed to winning...How can a team be ask to play hard and win games when the coach is doing everything to make sure that doesn't happen..Then everyone here can't wait to blame the players for not doing their part...Calling them lazy and not dedicated to their craft...Funny thing is, you all know that Larry wan't trying to win games, but yet you want to see more of that next season...And tell us all don't worry, Larry is trying to get them to play the right way...Bull. playing the right way is winning games period...



[Edited by - holfresh on 06-16-2006 1:54 PM]

Holfresh: I don't mean to insult you but that's a question with a loser bent to it. I have played basketball(and sports in general) for close to 30 years now. Not once in my life have I needed a coach to determine whether I play to win or not. I always play to win. That's why I play. That's the type of player I want on my team. Bitc-h and moan about the coach but bust your as-s on the court. ARe you kidding me with that question???? ARe you really willing to accept that from your players????? Unreal

I think the bottom line for some is this. Probably about 30% of the board came into the season(even after LB was hired) and complained about the roster. We complained about building a team filled with guys with a history of creating problems, not working hard and thousands of other question marks. We are the same people that are complaining about the players now. I went on record as saying the day he was hired that LB was a good hire but that he would not change who we were as a team. I warned day after day after day that LB would not turn us into Phoenix East. I said over and over again for 5 straight seasons that Lenny Wilkens, and Chaney and Herb and now LB were not our problems. The problem is our roster and this nasty losing atmosphere that we have created here. For 5 years I have been saying it and every year when I say it again someone calls me an LB lover, a Chaney lover a Lenny Lover a Herb lover. This is why I say "the more things change, oh wait they don't".

The Knicks need to make progress. The Knicks need to change the culture. LB had a bad year. Fire him, keep him, whatever. It does not matter. But sorry fans, it's just another smoke screen. When it happens we will celebrate that we finally "got the guy", and once again next offseason we will be doing the exact same thing. Only this time we will be firing Isiah. We need to change the culture. LB is just another vicitim of it.



Bip please don't take this the wrong way, but don't be an idoit....As a coach, you of all people should know that a team isn't winning games if the coach is not on board with the program...I have never played at that level but I know it takes all hands on board to create a winning culture..I submit this to you Bip, I don't care what team it is, If the coach isn't trying to win then you are not winning games...If Larry Brwon was the coach of the Dallas Mavericks or the Heat and did the same things he did with the Knicks, no way they are playing for the Championship right now...Do you dispute that assessment?

It is very easy to blame the players for their efforts, but during the course of an 82 game season, it is very easy to get discouraged when it is obvious the coach isn't trying to get to the playoffs...I really don't understand how you can dismiss this as not being a factor in the overall effort of the team....In my opinion and I could be wrong, it is the most critical ingredient to being successful...The leader of the team must lead...If you leader is tanking it, no team on earth has a chance to be successful...It is impossible!!!!...Dude, if Larry isn't pointing the way to victory, Who is Bip....Are you really putting this on the players shoulders????


Larry is not a victim here bro, he is the architect of this mess...Everone know the roster is flawed, you can't put a Championship roster together using the pieces Layden had in place, it's not happening...It takes time, but it's the coach's responsibility to lead his team into battle...Players feed of that emotionally, if they sense your leader isn't trying to win then the effort won't be there....That is universal, not something unique to the Knicks....




Again you are under the assumption that LB wasn't trying to win games here. That's your assumption.

I have played season's where winning a title was not in the guards. I have made moves based on developing for the future, thus forsaking some wins in the present. I have had players graduating who knew this, understood the situation adn busted their arses to leave a legacy because that is the type of player they are.

LB came here to develop an attitude. An attitude of teamwork, playing hard everynight. Your team did not do that from day one. Their is a post from Bippity from a game I went to during the pre-season in which I mentioned this. IF we had lunch pail guys that give 100% every night I would be 100% on board with you. But since we have guys who came into THIS YEAR'S CAMP OUT OF SHAPE, other camps out of shape, refused to re-enter games, sniped at coach's, fought with teammates(all before they ever wore a knicks uniform) I can't give them the benefit of the doubt now.

Holfresh: I don't know what type of person you are. Just like I don't know what really went down here. All I can go is past history of the players and coach. That history makes me lean away from the players. The fact that you actually think there is a time when it's okay for a player to quit, just makes me happy that I will never play on a team with you.

Every season somehting will go wrong. Coach is mean. Family members or friends may die. You may feel sick. Teammate may not be trying hard. Your role may not be defined. Your kid may be sick. Your kid may be born. You may get divorced. You may get married. All of this may effect your level of play. You may have a couple of these occur and have a really bad year. Taht's understandable. BUT THERE IS NEVER A REASON TO QUIT. AND THE FACT THAT FANS ARE ACCEPTING OF PLAYERS THAT QUIT IS THE REASON WHY DOLAN CONTINUES TO MAKE CASH AND YOU CONTINUE TO WATCH A HORRIBLE ORGANIZATION.

[Edited by - Bippity10 on 06-16-2006 2:53 PM]
I just hope that people will like me
holfresh
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6/16/2006  2:52 PM


Bip what kills me in all this is that the very thing that everyone here have against Marbs is the thing you are willing to give Larry a pass on...LEADERSHIP AND ACCOUNTABILITY....
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