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Why doesn't brown just stay?
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buddapaw
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6/12/2006  11:18 AM
That's like selling a car instead of saying "great commuter car" LB would say "Car has a Million miles on it transmission's about give out and I never changed the oil" Great selling strategy no? How can he want to bring new player and have a selling point of being a PITA and wishy washy who would want to come to play for him? Which gm will take our present players if they are soooo frickin horrible? This is the reason that LB should have closed is bumhole and coached the team, which he was payed handsomely to do. Dolan is a moron but you can't really blame the guy for dishing out a little checkbook injustice.
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Bobby
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6/12/2006  11:31 AM
Posted by BigC:

You can't stay whenever you are fired from a job, unless you want your boss to call security and the police.

(lol) wanna bet?....its called "fired man walking" just ask larry lightbulb

"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
BlueSeats
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6/12/2006  11:31 AM
GMs are not guys buying a car on the internet. They already know a lot about opposing players. Think isiah didn't know what he was getting in Marbury at the time? Think he doesn't know what Randolf and Miles are about right now?

Brown didn't lower anybody's trade value. Everybody already knows the potential of our guys as well as their attitudinal problems. Stop thinking everyone is a sucker out there and is gonna fall for a little sweet talk.
rvhoss
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6/12/2006  1:15 PM
Come on BS, you buying what Larry is selling? Or are you saying that you feel that the players are better than he advertised and can be traded in an effort to benefit the knicks and not just to unload bodies.

Unloading bodies is not a plan I or any knick fan should endorse, especially when these are the players that actually contribute to the few wins we had all season.
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BlueSeats
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6/12/2006  1:33 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

Come on BS, you buying what Larry is selling? Or are you saying that you feel that the players are better than he advertised and can be traded in an effort to benefit the knicks and not just to unload bodies.

Unloading bodies is not a plan I or any knick fan should endorse, especially when these are the players that actually contribute to the few wins we had all season.

How can you read my post and not know what I'm saying?

You really think Brown saying "I don't have any heads out there" changed Marbury's street value? You think him saying "Crawford has adapted more than any player I've ever coached" (or whatever he said) changed his? Did PJ calling kwami a "p/ssy" change his value? Did anything Bird say change Artest's?

GMs know the score. They pirate players from bad teams all the time. They read between the lines. They have friends among coaches and assistants on other teams. they talk to scouts and their own players who were former teammates of players in question. They aren't ignorant fools and they don't base their decisions on coaches press conferences and motivational tactics.

Brown did nothing to alter the street value of any of our guys, though clearly some helped THEMSELVES more than others.
rvhoss
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6/12/2006  1:44 PM
I was asking...and you answered, you think our players are better than brown advertised. I think that's what you were saying.

I'd like to keep crawford if it's possible. the only one he praised.

I think our players are better than advertised. I know I'm in the minority on that, but I just don't think the drop off in production of the players we have from the previous year is a sign that they are headed in the wrong direction.

I don't think Curry will continue to decline (though is rebounds did go up), I don't think marbury is a cancer, I don't think that Ariza is dillusional.

We package MoT and Franchise for another piece and we are still headed it the right direction...I never felt our wins were flukes, I felt our losses were.
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BRIGGS
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6/12/2006  1:44 PM
Posted by nixluva:

I just don't believe that Brown actually has a "PLAN". He has a "CONCEPT" of what it takes to put together a winning team, but he's not a GM and i don't think he has the skills to do all that it takes to make the kinds of deals he'd have to make to rebuild this team. His best chance was to let Isiah help him do it, which I think he WOULD have done. The problem is that LB wouldn't shut up about how bad the players are. You can't make trades if your coach tells the world that your players lack heart and are stupid. They asked him to stop and he wouldn't do it. I really just don't understand how anyone can defend that. How could any GM work the phones under those conditions. LB should've taken a differen't approach. Say you love the player, but that they just need time and this way other GM's wouldn't know for sure how bad you thought the players were. He also should've just did whatever he had to do in order to get some wins, so that we didn't look so desparate. There's a way to do things and LB didn't do it right. He SAYS that he wanted to change the roster, but what he did was sabotage Isiah's chances for doing that.


Those are fine points. It DOESNT absolve the train wreck
job Isiah has perpetuated, but it is a fair assessment of what could be considered a fiduciary breach by LB. He has devalued assets by verbally lambasting the players in a negative fashion to the media[ and subsuquently other teams] and obviously has been insubordinate to his employer. While he may feel he is doing the *right thing* it really does sound to me like he has materially breached his contract and the Knicks could have just cause to fire him him without compensation.
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BlueSeats
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6/12/2006  1:50 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

I was asking...and you answered, you think our players are better than brown advertised. I think that's what you were saying.

I'd like to keep crawford if it's possible. the only one he praised.

I think our players are better than advertised. I know I'm in the minority on that, but I just don't think the drop off in production of the players we have from the previous year is a sign that they are headed in the wrong direction.

I don't think Curry will continue to decline (though is rebounds did go up), I don't think marbury is a cancer, I don't think that Ariza is dillusional.

We package MoT and Franchise for another piece and we are still headed it the right direction...I never felt our wins were flukes, I felt our losses were.


I'm saying GMs don't care how our players are advertised.
newyorknewyork
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6/12/2006  1:55 PM
Its not even that he was going to fool gms into thinking the players were different then there scouting reports. But it did show how desperate we were to move these players. And desperation is not a good selling tool.
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Nalod
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6/12/2006  1:56 PM
Dolan is really stupid.

Dolanites love Marbury!

Dolanbury!
rvhoss
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6/12/2006  2:00 PM
lol...nalod, you so crazy!

I have no opinion of dolan, I'm in support of Zeke's plan, a fan of marbury's game and think if LB shows a little love the knicks can work it out.

I didn't recognize anybody last year but Dolan and Isiah. but like I said, I didn't even know who the owner was before dolan...and still don't. very few owners have an impact on their teams, and very few GMs and for that matter very few Coaches.

As long as they are on the same page, it all works out...larry seemed to be the only one that deviated from who he was at the opening press conference to who he was at mid season to who he is now...I thought this was his dream job and he was going to retire a knick coach?

Come on man. He only gets fired because he wants to get fired...this can all be fixed as easily as it has spiraled out of control...he likes the press, talk to the press.

there I go, ok, I guess I'm a little PO'd at larry.
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BRIGGS
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6/12/2006  2:02 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

[quote]Posted by rvhoss:

I was asking...and you answered, you think our players are better than brown advertised. I think that's what you were saying.

I'd like to keep crawford if it's possible. the only one he praised.

I think our players are better than advertised. I know I'm in the minority on that, but I just don't think the drop off in production of the players we have from the previous year is a sign that they are headed in the wrong direction.

I don't think Curry will continue to decline (though is rebounds did go up), I don't think marbury is a cancer, I don't think that Ariza is dillusional.

We package MoT and Franchise for another piece and we are still headed it the right direction...I never felt our wins were flukes, I felt our losses were.


I'm saying GMs don't care how our players are advertised.




i dont think thats true at all. that assuming 29 other GMs have had direct contact and know the character and insides of every player on every team. if that is the case why is jason williams the starting PG of a finals team? beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but a guy like LB carries heavy weight in this league and what he says does matter. if he said marbury is a great player, one of the best hes been around, yet doesnt fit directly into the style of play he wants to install--that hed be a much better fit for an uptempo team--rather than slam slam slam--thats makes a difference--for example.

if a car dealer was selling a car that he said scked--how many would he sell?
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BlueSeats
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6/12/2006  2:11 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Its not even that he was going to fool gms into thinking the players were different then there scouting reports. But it did show how desperate we were to move these players. And desperation is not a good selling tool.


How did Isiah make Layden's pieces look before trying to move them? When it was obvious he was "desperate" to get rid of them did it get in his way?

other team's GMs are simply not that swayed by that stuff. if they want someone bad enough they'll pay. If they don't they wont.
knixphan
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6/12/2006  2:24 PM
...maybe LB's thinking was, the only way to get Jimmy & Zeke to be willing to trade Steph is to complain...dunno -

But Dolan is a half-wit. I'm in the Nalod camp on this one
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newyorknewyork
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6/12/2006  2:28 PM
He wasn't desperate to trade of KVH or Doleac. He wasn't desperate to trade Nazr or Kurt Thomas either. He did want to get rid of Tim Thomas bad, but since he was in his final yr he wasn't in a desperate position. He wasn't even desperate to get rid of Baker or Moochi we he traded them for Taylor.

He was desperate to add a big name player like Marbury when he didn't have to be though.
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BlueSeats
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6/12/2006  2:29 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:


i dont think thats true at all. that assuming 29 other GMs have had direct contact and know the character and insides of every player on every team. if that is the case why is jason williams the starting PG of a finals team? beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but a guy like LB carries heavy weight in this league and what he says does matter. if he said marbury is a great player, one of the best hes been around, yet doesnt fit directly into the style of play he wants to install--that hed be a much better fit for an uptempo team--rather than slam slam slam--thats makes a difference--for example.

if a car dealer was selling a car that he said scked--how many would he sell?

Yeah, you're probably right. Guys like you and rvhoss can see their true value but GMs who've spent their whole lives in the sport lack your analytical abilities and your critical eye for talent.

Not only that but as a rule fail to utilize their connections to scouts, players and coaches who've played with, worked out, and/or coached these players before. And forget speaking with their own coaches who develop defensive schemes and gameplans against them. They simply read the "advertisements" and buy sight unseen.
BlueSeats
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6/12/2006  2:32 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

He wasn't desperate to trade of KVH or Doleac. He wasn't desperate to trade Nazr or Kurt Thomas either. He did want to get rid of Tim Thomas bad, but since he was in his final yr he wasn't in a desperate position. He wasn't even desperate to get rid of Baker or Moochi we he traded them for Taylor.

He was desperate to add a big name player like Marbury when he didn't have to be though.

Dude, he might not have needed to be desperate to move guys, but he WAS hellbent on gutting the roster and it was clear for all to see.

He's also not as "desperate" to move anyone on the roster today as many of you would have it, but pretty much everyone knows changes are due.
McK1
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6/12/2006  2:43 PM
regardless of Brown

if there is a coach/GM who feels they can win with Steph or anyone else on the roster they'll call
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
newyorknewyork
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6/12/2006  3:21 PM
Hes only not desperate to change the roster now because they are fireing Brown. If Brown were not getting fired then he would be desperate as he couldn't risk the same thing as last season happen again. Thats part of the reason why they are firing Brown. Not that its the right move or anything but im just saying.
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rvhoss
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6/12/2006  3:23 PM
if brown goes, the roster stays.
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