Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Honestly, if anyone chooses Knicks management over Brown then your psycho. Period, plain and simple.

who are you refering to when you say Knicks management? Dolan? Isiah? Mills? someone just said Isiah was Brown's biggest supporter but Dolan is pissed. also, all Brown did was trash the roster he either A) knew he had coming in or B) supposedly approved of the trades for (he called Curry the franchise player, praised Jalen after his first game saying his ball movement was exactly what the team needed, said Francis was a great player and on his "short list of guys he wanted"). Isiah has to work with Brown, but Brown also has to work with Isiah (and the players - how about working with the players instead of belittling them or teaching them defense instead of belittling them? just a thought). It didn't work. Dolan chose sides.

frankly, any sympathy for Brown is a joke. he's getting paid by, what, at least two teams NOT to coach at this point. he's made a career out of embarassing players and organizations. he has the name Next Town Brown for a reason, people. how is it that the Pistons fired Brown after two straight Finals while he was recovering from surgery and it was a smart move and we fire him after the worst season in Knicks history despite a talented roster and its a dumb move? it didn't work. Brown was starting to pull his "oh, I've got acid reflux, can't coach, no wait, I'm fine, it's just the flu" towards the end of the season. he was going to try to play the health card to get roster control.

Brown's a backstabbing meglomaniac. at least Zeke stabs you in the front. The thing that pisses me off the most about Brown is this innocent, chummy old man bullsh!t. do people really buy this crap? ask Bill Davidson what he thinks of Brown. I know all the UNC guys like him and that's awesome. they can have him. George Karl thinks coaches need more sympathy? boo hoo. I seem to remember him losing in the world games with a fantastic roster and the entire team wanting to kill him after three weeks. so he and Brown DO have something in common - they're self-righteous a-holes who can't understand why anyone would ever have a problem with their behavior.




[Edited by - crzymdups on 06-09-2006 02:38 AM]

I'm really confused by you Anti-Brown guys. The guy has a track-record. That guy also has a track-record for coming into a franchise and if the personnel doesn't fit what he likes to coach, then he wants them traded. Now, why do you seem to care that he doesn't like the players that are on this Knicks roster. Why do you get all up in a huff about it? These players, aside from Malik Rose, have all been GIVEN to the Knicks because of their diva-ish personalites and none of these players have ever won a single thing in this league. NOTHING. So enter Larry Brown, a guy who knows what winning basketball is about from a coaching standpoint and he doesnt like some of the players on this roster so he wants them gone and all for good reasons. From a fans standpoint you should ecstatic that someone is coming into this organization and ridding it of the terrible players and contract that Isiah/Mills/Dolan have brought in.

You shouldn't care about Larry Brown being paid by different teams, that has no bearing on his current Knicks situation, none what-so-ever. He was brought into this organization by James Dolan and Isiah Thomas to bring the Knicks back to a championship calibur team and as of yet, he hasn't been given an oppourtunity to do so.

Now your going to bring the olympics into this? Please, if Larry Brown was so bad as a coach and it wasn't any of the players fault in the games, then why did Team USA change the way they are bringing in players to the games from now on? Why do you think they are focusing more on a International type of player instead of bangers and bruisers and poor shooting phenoms? It's because American basketball doesn't translate to International basketball. The NBA brand of basketball is so watered down fundamentally nowadays that it's taken a backseat to the European nations. This is why Team USA is bringing in more team-oriented players and more fundamentally sound basketball players to the games.

In much of your post, all of your complaints seem to be non basketball related and I can see why. If we're arguing who should stay Isiah/Mills/Marbury vs Brown in a pure basketball matter then Larry Brown has that case won easily.

the whole "right way" is about defense and sharing the ball, so I would say yes, that the Mavs and Suns certainly do play that way. I dont remember his public comments or problems with the Olympic roster, aside from him saying they were going with the more veteran players and keeping the rotation fairly short.
In some ways you make my points for me. Every bad about Larry Brown has been well documented over the years. None of this is secret or a mystery. Its not like LB got here and starting doing things he's never done before. So knowing you have zero balance on your roster, 5+ rookies or guys that havent played much NBA ball and about half the roster is redundant, why why why do you go out and get Larry Brown? If we have all this talent on offense why didnt Zeke interview Flip? The only guy Marbury has ever actually played for?

Bill Davidson can hate Brown all he wants, but he got done what Flip and Rick Carlisle werent able to do. I would say that relationship payed off, no?

All this Larry Brown stuff is proving is that once again, Isiah and the Garden have no idea how to handle a situation that they created.

I will say this, for all his BS, Larry does have a track record for turning things around and doing so quickly. For all these documented bad relationships with his players the worst have gone on to say he's the best coach they have ever had. Nobody on this team has a history of playing winning NBA ball, Malik Rose and the rookies aside. Larry does. A good GM would give Larry what he wants in the context of whats best for the team and the team's future. Can Isiah do that for any coach?

Posted by fishmike:

I dont remember his public comments or problems with the Olympic roster

Give me a break...you don't remember? Sht, everyone remembers. It's been reposted a ton of times...now who's getting selective in their memory...why some you choose to forget even the last year in detroit when he was interviewing for a job during the finals is beyond me.

let me say it again, I think larry should just come back and actually coach. not talk, not joke, coach. not sit on the bench with his hands folded, coach.

he should come back.

As far as brown is concerned, he WAS a good coach.

There are a bunch of 80 year old programmers running around with incredible resumes, i wouldn't hire them or trust them to do a good job now. Not because they are brain dead, but because they just don't have that drive anymore to prove everyone wrong and do the best damn job you can do.

Brown, and some of you posters, are more concerned with his resume than his actual skill level today. What has he done in the last knick season to justify his resume?

We're not talking about history, we're talking about today. and today, he sucked. But he sucked because he didn't try.

DJ's post I think summed up the season...why in the hell was Channing Frye in a suit and Crawford benched before the season?

I guess that's brown's way of coaching...that works at princeton, but in today's NBA, that just goes to sabotaging the season and the teams fragile highly paid egos.

If he comes back, I'm pretty sure everyone will have learned from this little debacle, but his constant belly aching, I mean,
Isiah quote "just saying hello, I can't say anything more"
Larry quote "I've just got to go home...i didn't look for him"

why can't he just shut his mouth, these double talk back handed criticisms may work in Indiana and maybe even philly for that matter, but this is "read between the lines" new york...if he has the best job in the world, why is he leaving early?

Come on...$10 million a year, he's as much of a diva and marbury, but atleast marbury is trying to do his job.

Posted by fishmike:

the whole "right way" is about defense and sharing the ball, so I would say yes, that the Mavs and Suns certainly do play that way. I dont remember his public comments or problems with the Olympic roster, aside from him saying they were going with the more veteran players and keeping the rotation fairly short.
In some ways you make my points for me. Every bad about Larry Brown has been well documented over the years. None of this is secret or a mystery. Its not like LB got here and starting doing things he's never done before. So knowing you have zero balance on your roster, 5+ rookies or guys that havent played much NBA ball and about half the roster is redundant, why why why do you go out and get Larry Brown? If we have all this talent on offense why didnt Zeke interview Flip? The only guy Marbury has ever actually played for?

Bill Davidson can hate Brown all he wants, but he got done what Flip and Rick Carlisle werent able to do. I would say that relationship payed off, no?

All this Larry Brown stuff is proving is that once again, Isiah and the Garden have no idea how to handle a situation that they created.

I will say this, for all his BS, Larry does have a track record for turning things around and doing so quickly. For all these documented bad relationships with his players the worst have gone on to say he's the best coach they have ever had. Nobody on this team has a history of playing winning NBA ball, Malik Rose and the rookies aside. Larry does. A good GM would give Larry what he wants in the context of whats best for the team and the team's future. Can Isiah do that for any coach?

I think Larry's version of the "right way" is extremely particular. He did make public comments about the Olympic, but I'm not about to look them up.

I 100% agree that Isiah hired Larry for bad reasons - it made a splash, it made him look good, it took pressure off Isiah, it legitimized Isiah.

Brown winning the championship in Detroit? He did well, but the Pistons were injury free that year when every other team they played wasn't. They only got by the Heat by the skin on their chinny chin chin because Wade was hurt in Game 7 last year. This year Rip had an ankle problem all through the playoffs and Sheed was limited and the team was too thin to win again. Sometimes it really is about injuries. Isiah would have won three in a row if he hadn't sprained his ankle at the end of game 6 against the Lakers - they lost game 6 by 3 and game 7 by 2pts in 1988. Sometimes it really does just come down to who has weathered the 100+ games to get to the Finals better. Brown is a good coach, and he can be a great coach when he has the right roster that plays his way. My problem with him is his behavior if he doesn't have the roster he wants.

Can Isiah do that for any coach? Another good question. It looks like the answer is "no" at this point, which is why I think Zeke needs to hire a gm, and take on coaching/team president and put his neck on the line for this roster. I agree Zeke isn't blameless, but I like MOST of the roster he's put together and I think given a few years it can be really good. I hate Brown and I can barely stand to look at him. I think it's funny that a lot of folks here and elsewhere think Zeke is a slime bag but somehow Brown isn't because Brown puts on his sad face to the press.

interesting take from Vecsey. if you can stomach his bad puns, I get the impression he's one of the few reporters who actually has sources and is trying to figure out what's happening behind the scenes here:

http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/67278.htm

STEALING THE SHOW
KNICKS DEBACLE ATTRACTS ATTENTION
by Peter Vecsey

DOLLARS & SENSE: Larry Brown leaves the NBA pre-draft workouts for the last time in Orlando yesterday. Peter Vecsey says the decision to fire Brown comes down to the bottom line.

June 9, 2006 -- ORLANDO - Consider this an open apology to the New York Knickerbockers and all they stand for.
Despite what the whole human race thinks, Camp Cablevision knows what it's doing. After all, here I am, tailgating Isiah Thomas and Larry Brown to the NBA's pre-draft camp at Disney's Wide World of Sports complex, and keeping their disharmony-from-a-distance under surveillance as The Finals get underway in Dallas.

The last time "The Knicks" and "The Finals" were mentioned in the same sentence, Jeff Van Gundy was seen on their sidelines and Pat Riley's aura had been downgraded to just plain obscene.

While everyone censures James Dolan and Steve Mills and Thomas for their perceived uncouth treatment of Brown and portray his professed public humiliation as a permanent stain on the magical world of Madison Square, I wish to highlight the following fact:

Long after flim-flam franchises like San Antonio, Detroit, Phoenix and New Jersey have evacuated our stream of unconsciousness, the Knicks clearly haven't lost the knack for arresting our undivided attention.

What other 23-win oddball outfit could possibly get this sort of pub the day before the Belmont? (Author's aside: noted tout Ken Lay advocates betting out on High Finance.)

That's my dominant thought as I stand on the top deck of the Milkhouse Gym Wednesday evening and Thursday afternoon peripherally eyeballing point guard Jordan Farmar - said to be insisting on a commitment from a top 20 team or else he'll return to UCLA - and South Carolina's small forward Renaldo Balkman separate themselves from the 55 or so second-round and undrafted projections.



Down below the double-parking, lame-duck coach, who's looking for love in all the wrong places, is within my unobstructed view. Each workout Brown makes a habit of burrowing between frayed security blankets - Donnie Walsh, Billy King and Kevin O'Connor. During break he intermingles with very few others.

Every now and then, Brown's spirits are buoyed, as he's made to feel less unwanted by a courtesy call from the Mayo Clinic.

If I turn to my right and look to the extreme rear, there's the overmatched president of basketball operations/coach-in-waiting, who's hanging the current one out like a wind chime. Thomas is rubbing knees (I'm not the jealous type) with assistant GM Brendan Suhr, fired wherever he's been - Detroit, Atlanta, Orlando, Detroit - for being brazenly untrustworthy.

If I hadn't witnessed the genius that is Isiah up close and personal at any number of his previous pit stops, I might be a bit concerned about the roster he has assembled and the company he's keeping.

By the way, wasn't it last summer (or the Summer of '42) that coach-for-the-moment and coach-for-next season did everything short of exchanging vows in a civil ceremony?

Yet, as far as we know, nary a word has been spoken since Brown and Thomas arrived here earlier this week. So much for Disney World being the happiest place on earth!

By refusing to confirm or deny my report, the Knicks are largely co-signing off on it.

"That's true," substantiates someone stuck between the clown coach to the left of him and the executive jokers to the right.

What's not true, I'm counseled, is my assertion Thomas is championing the charge to dump Brown overboard, buyout or not. While, there's no doubt Thomas is livid at Brown for undermining his ability to trade alleged assets by relentlessly accentuating their defects to the media, Next Town has alienated Dolan to a far greater degree. From what I'm able to piece together, Dolan has been in an unforgiving mood for months and months because Brown routinely refused to adhere to the owner's phone and behind-closed-door orders.

Only two weeks into the season, after a game at Golden State, Brown was told in no uncertain terms to mute his negativity toward Stephon Marbury, who declined to let the comments slide and called out his coach. Dolan and Thomas have chosen to keep their grievances in house, before and after the news of Brown's impending deportation got out.

Despite many more warnings from Dolan to zip it, Brown's withering words at the expense of Poisonbury, and many teammates continued unabated for the remainder of the season.

"Larry's mistake was picking a fight with Dolan," says someone in the know.

Many people look at how Brown's situation is being handled and feel the Knicks should be above publicly embarrassing their Hall of Fame coach, that in spite of his unprofessional conduct, he deserves respect for contributing so much to the league and the sport.

Dolan feels Brown is trying to embarrass the Knicks into paying him off. That belief is validated each time Brown grants an interview regarding his situation. Following my story, the owner gave explicit instructions to everyone in the organization not to discuss the matter. Only in the past few days has the repeated message seemingly seeped into Brown.

By all accounts from the Nets, to the Pacers, to the 76ers, to the Pistons, normally Brown doesn't take on his bosses and his players until two or three years into a contract. The Knicks knew that going in and were prepared to deal with it accordingly when the time came. They definitely knew about the eccentric they were getting.

"But when Larry acted like he did right away, it caught Dolan and Thomas by complete surprise," underscores a former Brown supporter.

OK, so what's stopping the leader of some garage band from doing what must be done?

The answer is strictly bottom line. Contrary to evidence, Dolan is forever carefree and careless about toeing it.

"His resources may be ridiculous," offers someone with objective perspective, "but writing a check for that amount is plenty reason to pause before making a definitive decision."

But, hey, it's The Finals and we're talking Knicks. Viva Camp Cablevision!


[Edited by - crzymdups on 06-09-2006 12:12 PM]