And for a guy who is always out on the perimeter, he gets his fair share of rebounds!

welll it's true he frustrates me and gets to me. and now he's on a team that i actually want to win, so it's even worse.

why is he alwys out on the perimeter? that's what gets to me. is that really where riley wants him? is that where he's most effective? he ws SO good his first few yesrs, primarily in the post. he had awesome low-post moves, was a great offensive rebounder, passed great out of the post. he was on his way to a perennial all-star career. something happened where he fell in love with the perimeter game, and spent less and less time playing to his strengths. even though i know yoiu're goofing on the perimeter notion here, he's not anywhere near the 10+ rebounder he used to be, right?

one of the reasons i dog him is because of how good he was early on and how much he seemed to abandon that and turn himself into a clown prince. i mean that thread goofing on him with "because there are no 4's" exists for a reason. this is not a perception that i hold alone. and he got decimated by kmart in the playoffs a couple of years in a row. he wouldn't get inside and bang with him, allowed kmart to take all his effectiveness away.

 
 2002-05-19  NBA  BOS  NJN   1  47   9  23   4   9   5   6   1   4   5   5   4   0   3   3  27
 2002-05-21  NBA  BOS  NJN   1  43  11  32   2   8   2   3   2   9  11   2   3   0   3   4  26  
 2002-05-25  NBA  BOS* NJN   1  47   8  18   2   3   5   6   4   8  12   4   2   1   6   5  23  
 2002-05-27  NBA  BOS* NJN   1  41  10  17   3   7   7   9   0   9   9   4   1   0   2   3  30  
 2002-05-29  NBA  BOS  NJN   1  43   5  20   2   6   1   2   2  11  13   3   1   0   4   4  13  
 2002-05-31  NBA  BOS* NJN   1  47   7  20   1   9   1   4   1   8   9   4   3   2   3   6  16  

 2003-05-05  NBA  BOS  NJN   1  43   6  20   1   7   1   2   1   7   8   5   0   1   2   6  14
 2003-05-07  NBA  BOS  NJN   1  45   3  15   0   1   1   2   4   5   9   3   1   0   5   4   7
 2003-05-09  NBA  BOS* NJN   1  41   6  17   1   4   2   3   4  11  15   1   0   1   3   2  15
 2003-05-12  NBA  BOS* NJN   1  46   8  15   1   3   3   3   2   7   9   7   5   1   6   6  20 

i still can't get away from the view that the guy short circuits himself. but hell you're right he is in the finals. it's a great stage for him to shut me up. me and the millions of others chanting "because there are no 4's" every time he jacks!

Posted by Marv:

Posted by BasketballJones:

It's, like, when a player is not very far out or groovey with the other cats on the team - he gives of bad vibes, dig?

that's exactly right.

in walker's case, it's a guy who takes untimely 3's, hurting his team's chances of sustaining momentum when thy're trying to claw back into the game. also tries to do more with the ball than his skills can support - too much dribbling, trying for too fancy of passes, trying to beat ball pressure on his own instead of giving it up - resulting in more turnovers at crucial times, again killing momentum. ignoring the need to fill a role - feed shaq, fill a lane, fight for offensive rebounds, push for postition in the post and take advantage of his nice skills down there. instead, he's trying to be a flashy high-skilled player, failng at it, costing his team possesions, costing them momentum and contributing strongly to a loss.

to me he brings that bad vibe to too many games of trying to overtax his flashier skills while abandoning the role he could play to really help his team.

his first couple of years in the league he was one of my favoirite players. i thought he was fashioning his game after another celtic great and one of the all-time good-vibe players - cornbread maxell. maxwell wouild drive other teams crazy in the post - great rebounder on both boards, strong defender, and owner of a million jukes and dekes in the post. and a real hard worker, in the '84 finals against LA, it was maxwell who led the team, not bird. maxwell issued the statement, "c'mon climb on my back guys and i'll carry us to the win." then worked his butt off doing the dirty work, and being the mvp of their championship.

walker abandoned that role and becaome a 3-point chucker and overdribbler and a guy who wouldn 't take advantage of his skills down low.

anyone agree or disagree?

Posted by oohah:

not riley - i'm rooting for shaq. always loved that guy. didn't root for him that hard on orlando cuz they were our enemies then. always loved him on LA and had no problem since we sucked then. same thing now. hope the guy gets his 4th title then retires. pretty impressive playing for 3 franchises and bringing each one to the finals.

I was a huge Shaq fan in college. He was destined for greatness, yet he seemed humble and intelligent.

But the moment he got to the pros, he became not only the biggest player, but he seemed to be the biggest-headed player! I really did not care for the way he treated Ewing when he entered the league.

I disliked him ever since, especially once Phil Jackson entered the picture.

I like him again, after hearing how he tmaintained his professionalism when Kobe hung him out to dry. I might root for Miami if it was just about Shaq, but I can't root for Riley (coach or GM).

Shaq really is impressive with the 3 teams 3 finals accomplishment. Even though Penny/Kobe/Wade are the glamour players who get the numbers and the glitter treatment, what gets these teams to the finals is Shaq's dominance.

oohah

Posted by Bonn1997:

Wow! What dominance so far by Dallas!

Posted by Nalod:

Posted by joec32033:

Nalod, I think that these players Riley has are not performing other than Shaq(give me a second I'll explain that in a minute).

None of the players he bought in(except Payton, Shaq and Mourning))-even though they have been through some wars and are good players-are career underachievers who never ran with winning teams. Dallas became great after Walker left and he did nothing with the Celts not once but twice, Jason Williams ran the massively disappointing Sac-Town teams and then he and Posey toiled in anonymity in Memphis. If Riles brought in guys with less talent but as have actually helped winning teams(just as examples)-like Horry instead of Walker, Antonio Daniels instead of a Jason Williams....guys used to playing supporting roles on good teams....I think this series would be different.

Shaq on the other hand is trying to perform but Dallas made a key tweak to the hack a shaq method. Now instead of fouling him any time he gets the ball or any time he puts up a shot, they are fouling him only when his shots are "gimme" baskets. They are being so efficient with the fouls, I mean, in game one he took 9 foul shots....that is not hacking IMO...hackin is when he takes 15-20.....9 foul shots is pretty low for a guys with his weaknesses and his type of power game.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 06-12-2006 10:25 AM]

Thanks for expanding on that. Wade and shaq are the real deal. Its not that miami is not a good team at all. The East still remains weak the the west still has the better top teams.

Riley is made to be a god in some circles. Hes not a bad coach, just over rated.

Posted by Nalod:

Miami is keeping Dirk at bay and the rest of dallas is stepping up and doing their jobs.

Dirk is looking to pass right away when he gets the ball. He is putting his ego in the right place and doing what is needed. If Miami shifts, he is ready.

Dirk's still putting up impressive #s, but I agree that he's looking to pass often when he's doubled, which he should be doing. He'll adjust extremely well to whatever the opposing team's defense throws at him. Dallas's bench and starters @ the 1, 2, and 3 look so good partly because they're good players but also because Dirk elevates their games by drawing so much attention and getting the ball to them at the right time.



[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 06-12-2006 11:23 AM]