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What 's the difference trade or no trade
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Bippity10
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6/9/2006  5:58 PM
Yeah I keep sayign that. I like all three rookies a lot. I think all developed mentally very well last year. I think the physical game is soon to follow. But that being said I think anyone who says they are confident Isiah wouldn't trade them for another splash is a liar. I think to save his job come playoff time Isiah would destroy the future. Hard to blame him, anyone would. That's the position we put everyone in our organization. It's so frustrating.

It can be turned around. It's not hopeless. But everyday we don't take a positive step is another day you and I will be waiting. I have a long memory. I remember the conversations on websites in 2002-2003 about how 2007 is so long away but with shrewd moves we can fianlly get under the cap, or move into an area where are finances and trades are manageable. Put ourselves in position to obtain THAT ONE PLAYER. Now it's 2007 we are even further over the cap and have players that we can trade for other teams problems. Again just like 2002-2003 we can change our fortunes, but we have to start moving in that direciton someday.
I just hope that people will like me
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Bippity10
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6/9/2006  6:00 PM
First step: Support LB to the hilt or fire him and take a step forward. Unprofessionalism to get back at a guy does not help us. WE need to stop focusing on the unimportant and get back to focusing on building a winner. If LB is to be fired, he is unimportant. Get rid of him and lets move on. If he is here, he is important. Back him to the hilt. It's not a tough concept
I just hope that people will like me
knicks1248
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6/9/2006  6:21 PM
The concept seems simple to them, hang larrys ass out on the line in the pouring ass rain then throw him away like he did our season. I personally don't favor giving up on him, but changing what he already did seems like a task in itself, or a distraction.

IT may get this same exact team (minor a change or two)to a possible 8th seed, but at least there would be some postives to dwell on. But I really can't tell the last succesful coach to do both in a very long time. What you usually end up with is mediocracy right around the board.
ES
simrud
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6/9/2006  6:23 PM
At this point I'd love this team to go into the season with IT as coach and get destroyed. I think thats the only way we can be rid of both cancers, Marbury and IT. Its also going to be fun to see what new excuses will pop up on this board.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
knicks1248
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6/9/2006  6:34 PM
You want more failure after so much of it, just to prove a point.
ES
BasketballJones
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6/9/2006  7:15 PM
Posted by knicks1248:

The concept seems simple to them, hang larrys ass out on the line in the pouring ass rain then throw him away like he did our season

How about dousing him with gasoline and lighting him on fire?
https:// It's not so hard.
Bippity10
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6/12/2006  12:03 PM
Yeah, I have to root for Isiah and future success if he becomes the coach. I don't care who is coach I want them to succeed becasue I'm a Knicks fan. But for all the awful moves he's made, I understand entirely where people are coming from. We need to phase him out as GM.
I just hope that people will like me
rvhoss
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6/12/2006  1:03 PM
the hate for isiah is only matched for the hate of marbury...they defeinitely bring out the emotion in some of us...but the level headed fan realizes that the knicks are the top priority and saying you want them to lose requires a level of ... well, let's just say he probably didn't proof read his post before he hit the button.
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BlueSeats
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6/12/2006  1:04 PM
The problem with this team, and this organization, as bippity alludes to, is there is no foundation.

Either Isiah himself said, or perhaps it was Brendan Suhr, that he's trying to accumulate "a lot of pieces in order to build a big tower." but we all know that a tall tower on a weak foundation is destined to fall.

Marbury and Curry are NOT foundations. Perhaps someday Frye and Lee can become one, but they're surely not there yet. Closest we've come to a foundation of late was Houston and Kurt. Guys who could serve to bolster our foundation, like JYD, Nazr, M. Rose, and Kurt are traded routinely. In fact fans clamor for it, instead choosing guys who want to be a shiny crown, an antenna, or a gargoyle - some dramatic flourish to decorate the unstable top.

This lack of surety and security goes all the way to the top. Dolan himself could get unseated by his dissatisfied father. Isiah's tenure is shaky due to performance and lawsuits, and Brown has been rendered to little more than underwear on a streetlight, or some similar frat prank.

No one in this organization is safe, nor should they be. churning and turmoil is the name of the game and I see no reason for that to stop until we have a worthy general and captain who are in it for a common cause.

Just staying alive doesn't seem to be getting it done.
rvhoss
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6/12/2006  1:09 PM
sorry BS, I just don't see Frye/Lee/Crawford/Curry/Nate/JackieB as a weak foundation.

Couple that with the 25/26 year old and for some reason entered the season out of shape QRich and the soon to be all around dynamic QWoods and I see a truly strong foundation to build on.

I think we are weak at the top (veteran) end of the scale, but you have to take on veterans to unload veterans with the salary cap rules as they are, but the youth (foundation) we have now in place is far superior than when Zeke took over.

Forrest for the trees my man...forrest for the trees*

For every 10 page anti marbury rant you post, I say Frye/Lee/Crawford/Curry/Nate/JackieB.

*can’t see the forest for the trees

An expression used of someone who is too involved in the details of a problem to look at the situation as a whole: “The congressman became so involved in the wording of his bill that he couldn’t see the forest for the trees; he did not realize that the bill could never pass.”

Or

"Blueseats is so wrapped up in his hate for marbury, Isiah and Dolan that he couldn't see the forest for the trees; he does not realize that the youthful core is far superior than before they arrived"


[Edited by - rvhoss on 06-12-2006 1:11 PM]
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BlueSeats
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6/12/2006  1:21 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

sorry BS, I just don't see Frye/Lee/Crawford/Curry/Nate/JackieB as a weak foundation.....

That's "potential." That's a lot of tweeners with a lot yet to prove.

"Blueseats is so wrapped up in his hate for marbury, Isiah and Dolan that he couldn't see the forest for the trees; he does not realize that the youthful core is far superior than before they arrived"

Come on, I'm in this for a championship, not to eek out Layden.

I'm talking about a structure here, and things you can take to the bank. I'm talking about having an edge over our competition. I'm talking about having a solid footing and a firm grip. I'm talking about something to believe in, not to pray for.
rvhoss
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6/12/2006  1:33 PM
it's been 2.5 years of the new regime and of my "foundation" that you call potential, they are all 1 and 2 year players.

There has been a ton of calls for rebuilding, I have said repeatedly that we are...now, if you are looking for a championship overnight, then you are in the wrong league.

The last 10 have been won by the same 3 or 4 teams, and had shaq stayed in LA, they would be there this year.

Dallas was in the championship game like 4 of the last 5 years. Miami got shaq...detroit took time as well.

2.5 years and counting...we have an edge over our competition. That edge is the youth and athleticism acquired in the last 2 drafts alone.

For every miss, we've had a hit, while the number of transactions can be questioned, there is no way you can question the committment the knicks have shown to the future of the franchise.

Tweeners? Depending on the coach.

here is what I see:
Frye - Center (ala mourning)
Lee - PF/SF (multipurpose bench player)
Crawford - SG (plain and simple)
Curry - Center (I'm assuming you weren't talking about him)
Nate - SG (always has been, always should be)
JackieB - Center

Now don't get me wrong, Crawford handling the rock isn't really a tweener, but what's is known as a combo guard, ala Jason Terry (yeah, I'm comparing to one of the top players in the league, but so the eff what, I only remember second half versus seattle)

You say potential, I say foundation.

The only difference is that you expect them to suck.
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BlueSeats
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6/12/2006  1:38 PM
I don't expect them to suck, I expect that if we stay our present course they will be undermined by team cancers, trades, GM/coach wars, radical shifts in direction and approach, starphucking, etc.
rvhoss
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6/12/2006  1:39 PM
oh...ok. I don't.
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Nalod
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6/12/2006  1:51 PM
I want the current leaky soft pulp-like mentally FountationBury off the team. The abvove team is just fine without him. We dont' need anything in return.

Addition by subraction.
rvhoss
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6/12/2006  1:56 PM
I agree. but I like him in the mix nonetheless. I don't think his scowl has any effect on the team negatively whatsoever. He didn't even play the last dozen games and was cheering his A off in each thunderous loss.

There is no recorded addition by subtraction that resulted in a championship.
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fishmike
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6/12/2006  2:03 PM
Originally posted by rvhoss:
sorry BS, I just don't see Frye/Lee/Crawford/Curry/Nate/JackieB as a weak foundation.....
its is a weak core. While you can certainly state those are good players, good players dont dominate the NBA, star players do. I like those guys but I dont see a single star player. The closest thing to a non-star roster thats done well in the last 20 years has been the Pistons, so if your a Larry guy you take some solace in that. Take a little look at the "core" players of the 16 playoff teams:
Kidd/RJ/Vince
LeBron/Hughs/Marshal/Z
Jermaine Oneil/S. Jackson
Gordon/Deng/Kirk/Nocioni/Chandler
Shaq/Wade
Arenas/Caron/Jamison
------------west------------------
Duncan/Parker/Manu
Dirk/Howard/Terry/Harris/Stack/Damp
Gasol/Mike Miller/Battier
Nash/Marion
Cassel/Brand/Kaman/Cuttino
Kobe/Odom
Artest/Bibby/Miller
Carmelo/Camby

And this speaks nothing of the up and coming teams/players in the league, and other teams that just werent healthy. Who's our star? Who's the difference maker on the Knicks? Who's the guy that other teams have to plan against? The truly painful question is where or how would we get that player?

This team and this roster has major problems and monster holes. We dont have any stars. We dont have a guy that makes everyone around him better, that elevates the level of play for the hole team, that changes the game, the way Ewing did, the way Nash does, Dirk does, Wade does.

Our best and only bet is to get guys to play defense with reckless tenacity, share the ball, protect the ball, own the glass and take high % shots. Hey... is it me or does that sound eerily like "the right way"
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
rvhoss
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6/12/2006  2:08 PM
well, we know for a fact that other teams have to plan against Curry, and he's still a kid.

The other's were rookies, everyone on your list was a rookie at one time in their career...are any of them younger than lebron or Wade or Melo (arguably the best draft class ever).

Like I said, kids will be kids...I see potential, you see losers.

I see frye being a big star and that's not a far leap. I see Curry continuing to be the offensive jugernaught (sp?) that other teams have to account for and double. Qrich is every bit a star as manu...did manu even play last year?

Of my core, all are in their first or second year with the exception of crawford and Curry...curry, it's agreed has to be game planned against.

Crawford is coming along pretty well in his own right.

Like I said, you like other teams players, I like mine.

I'm a knick fan, my choice makes sense...what explains your choice?
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McK1
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6/12/2006  2:16 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

Qrich is every bit a star as manu...did manu even play last year?



how do you coerce your fingers to type statements like this
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
fishmike
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6/12/2006  2:18 PM
do you watch these guys play? Curry has zero post moves. He he doesnt dunk it its a turn over. He trips over his own feet or commits an offensive foul. I will agree with you that Frye has the potential to be a bigtime scorer in the NBA, but in 4 years of college in a conference weak with bigmen his rebounding and defense were suspect.

I dont love other team's players. I'm a what you see is what you get kind of guy, thats all. And I have never ever called our drafted kids losers. I reserve that term for those who have earned it over a career of collecting large paychecks and lottery balls.

Manu vs. Q? Again this just tells me you arent watching these players. Manu is a playmaker and he shoots over 45%. Q is a volume shooter and hasnt broken 40% in 4 years. This from a guy that raves about his post game. Sorry... its one thing to like your own players. Its another to make them into something they arent.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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