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wow, RV, Holfresh, you "guys" the Pistons arent better without Larry Brown
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martin
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6/3/2006  12:02 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by holfresh:

Larry's team barely got by a Heat team that was hurt last year, took them to seven games...This year, it was the Pistons who was hurt...
I agree, I think it was more than just coaching but their coach stinks. This Detroit team got pushed to the brink by the Cavs!! Flip Saunders is definitely not a big time coach. Rick Carlisle would do much better than him.



Well it could be a few things at work, maybe Flip does stink, but maybe these guys aren't hungry anymore, they certainly have the talent to beat anyone, it's just difficult for me to believe Flip lead them all year where they played like monsters then he looses it all in the playoffs...

the playoffs are a different animal than the regular season. Each team knows the exact playbook and tendencies of the other team. EXACT. So it's about in-game adjustments and game-to-game adjustments. Look at how Avery Johnson put Devin Harris into the starting lineup against the Spurs and played small ball. Or how 2 years ago Brown posted up the Big Nasty against Kobe in the finals to not only neutralize him on D but make him work his tail off. This is what Brown and the really good coaches bring to the game. Flip stinks.
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BRIGGS
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6/3/2006  12:05 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by holfresh:

[quote]Posted by nyk4ever:

What are the facts here? Well they are..

The Pistons won a world championship and lost the finals in 7 games in Browns 2 years in Detroit. The year he wasn't there, they didn't even make it to the finals.



Here are some more facts: 1 Championship, 23 seasons of coaching...


1 championship NCAA
1 championship aba
1 championship NBA
finals 3 times
23/26 winning seasons

no one said he is perfect, but you hire a guy to do a job. if he thinks the job is to tear it down, who has the experience and now how in management to trump him?

who should coach the knicks isiah--whats his coaching record?



Thats the point really, it's not his place to tear it down...


if the roof be leaking--the roof needs to be teared down and replaced.

you give a guy 55mm$ and tell him hes in charge, hes been to the finals 3 out of the last 5 years--the darn organization should give him 3 years. People are saying Isiah hasnt had enough time[although he spent a half billion $ and has lost a ton of games etc... I dont care if Isiah stays, but there should be some common ground for both to sit on


who is coaching the knicks if LB levaes anyway? isiah?
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McK1
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6/3/2006  12:07 PM
Posted by holfresh:


I'm not saying it can't tbe the coach, but I defy you to tell me the player in today's game who says it all my fault...


Dwayne Wade after turning the ball over so much in game 5 put the blame on himself.

if you're definition of a star if Marbury, you wouldn't know leadership in sports existed.


[Edited by - McK1 on 06-03-2006 12:08 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
fishmike
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6/3/2006  12:29 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by fishmike:

Someone please remind me about how much more they are scoring and their margin for victory.

LB can coach. He did a SH!T job for the KNicks last year but he's also shown in the past that he can turn around bad relationships and make them into great results on the court. I should certainly hope he can do that with Isiah's goldenboy next season



I have never said that Larry is not a good coach, but Larry's team barely got by a Heat team that was hurt last year, took them to seven games...This year, it was the Pistons who was hurt...One place that I think Larry would have helped would have been motivation...It really didnt seems like the Pistons played hard or was hungry....

That being said, nothing can erase the shet job that Larry did last year...If left up to his own devices he would further sink this organization in salary hell and field older hurt players in efforts to win now.....NO THANKS...It now seems like the model of having a two superstars on a team in now back in vogue...Guys like Larry Brown will now take a back seat to players on the court again..
well thats the daily arguement isnt it? We have a coach that had a bad year, but a pretty strong history of always winning and always bouncing back. The players and GM however have nad very bad careers, and a strong history of reverting back to losing ways and bad habits even after a patch of success here and there.

The thing that impressed me about LB's championship team was he coached the only team since I've been an NBA fan to win a title without the best player(s) in the league. Before LB it was
Jordan/Pippen x6
Hakeem x2
Shaq Kobe x3
Duncan x3
If you want to go further back its Isiah, Magic/Kareem, Brid/McHale.
Did LB's Piston's have a HOF player? So its not just that he won a title, but he did something that hadnt been done in 25 years, and proved it was no fluke the following year losing to the Spurs in game 7.

And your wrong Holfresh, one thing CAN erase the terrible job he did last. Getting this team to play the right way next year getting us to the playoffs. Its a monumental task when you have a group of career losers as we do but if anyone can its probably Larry

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
DarkKnicks
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6/3/2006  12:30 PM
I guess some people here are just being opportunist, unless the Pistons had won the championship some people here would just start claiming Larry was a God.
And of course, this could not be an ultimateknicks topic if it didn't contain a Marbury rant.

[Edited by - DarkKnicks on 06-03-2006 12:31 PM]
fishmike
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6/3/2006  12:33 PM
well I had to listen to these guys bash another Knick coach all season long in finding ways to protect and defend our soft players. Saying the Pistons are better w/o Larry was one of the things said. Guess thats not really true huh? Maybe after 20 years of losing and 15 coaches it will sink in the problem is with the guys on the court. Maybe
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BlueSeats
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6/3/2006  12:44 PM
Posted by holfresh:


That being said, nothing can erase the shet job that Larry did last year...If left up to his own devices he would further sink this organization in salary hell and field older hurt players in efforts to win now.....NO THANKS.

If you're going to keep asserting this I'm going to continue to press the issue. In Larry's 30 years of coaching, who are the significant kids he's EVER traded for broken down vets?
holfresh
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6/3/2006  12:50 PM
Posted by fishmike:

well I had to listen to these guys bash another Knick coach all season long in finding ways to protect and defend our soft players. Saying the Pistons are better w/o Larry was one of the things said. Guess thats not really true huh? Maybe after 20 years of losing and 15 coaches it will sink in the problem is with the guys on the court. Maybe



How do you guys look at yourselves in the mirror and say it Flips fualt and not LB's fault, How?..
holfresh
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6/3/2006  12:53 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by holfresh:


That being said, nothing can erase the shet job that Larry did last year...If left up to his own devices he would further sink this organization in salary hell and field older hurt players in efforts to win now.....NO THANKS.

If you're going to keep asserting this I'm going to continue to press the issue. In Larry's 30 years of coaching, who are the significant kids he's EVER traded for broken down vets?



Who ever said Larry traded significant kids for broken down vets...I did however say that Larry is trying to trade for broken down vets in KMart and Ratliff...that has been documented through out the season....
holfresh
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6/3/2006  1:19 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by holfresh:


That being said, nothing can erase the shet job that Larry did last year...If left up to his own devices he would further sink this organization in salary hell and field older hurt players in efforts to win now.....NO THANKS.

If you're going to keep asserting this I'm going to continue to press the issue. In Larry's 30 years of coaching, who are the significant kids he's EVER traded for broken down vets?



Keep looking for it cause you will never find it...U keep harping on it and I know your looking...
nyk4ever
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6/3/2006  1:28 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by holfresh:


That being said, nothing can erase the shet job that Larry did last year...If left up to his own devices he would further sink this organization in salary hell and field older hurt players in efforts to win now.....NO THANKS.

If you're going to keep asserting this I'm going to continue to press the issue. In Larry's 30 years of coaching, who are the significant kids he's EVER traded for broken down vets?



Keep looking for it cause you will never find it...U keep harping on it and I know your looking...


I think your making BlueSeats point for him... your right you won't find any young players he's traded for older hurt vets. You are agreeing with this sentiment?
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
holfresh
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6/3/2006  1:30 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by holfresh:


That being said, nothing can erase the shet job that Larry did last year...If left up to his own devices he would further sink this organization in salary hell and field older hurt players in efforts to win now.....NO THANKS.

If you're going to keep asserting this I'm going to continue to press the issue. In Larry's 30 years of coaching, who are the significant kids he's EVER traded for broken down vets?



Keep looking for it cause you will never find it...U keep harping on it and I know your looking...


I think your making BlueSeats point for him... your right you won't find any young players he's traded for older hurt vets. You are agreeing with this sentiment?


No, Blueseats has been saying for days that I made that statment...I'm giving him time to find it...



[Edited by - holfresh on 06-03-2006 1:33 PM]
nixluva
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6/3/2006  1:35 PM
The thing is that LB and that Piston team had a good run. Very few teams built like theirs can last in this league. They are a FLUKE. No other recent champions have been built like they have. They almost didn't get back last year!!! People want to say "injuries are part of the game". COME ON! Wade was kicking them in the ASS last year. They couldn't stop him then and not now. Shaq is still capable of being dominant and he showed that this year. The Pistons were LUCKY last year to get back to the finals and this year they got exposed. LB is NOT a miracle worker. IF not for DUMARS great work in getting him Rasheed, LB would STILL not have a RING! So lets take it easy on this whole idea that he's the one to get us out of our problems. HE was NOT the GM of the Pistons and wasn't even tthere for much of their construction. He gets very little credit in my book for that team. ANY top coach could've won with that team, Jackson or Riley certainly could've done it. LB is behind those guys in terms of overall coaching ability. LB doesn't have a history of improving a teams offensive production, its almost exclusively on the defensive end. He isn't a motivator of men either. The Pistons were already a pretty determined group when he got there. With the Knicks he had to be prepared to do MUCH more work than he's had to do in YEARS and he wasn't up to the task.
nyk4ever
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6/3/2006  1:39 PM
Posted by nixluva:

The thing is that LB and that Piston team had a good run. Very few teams built like theirs can last in this league. They are a FLUKE. No other recent champions have been built like they have. They almost didn't get back last year!!! People want to say "injuries are part of the game". COME ON! Wade was kicking them in the ASS last year. They couldn't stop him then and not now. Shaq is still capable of being dominant and he showed that this year. The Pistons were LUCKY last year to get back to the finals and this year they got exposed. LB is NOT a miracle worker. IF not for DUMARS great work in getting him Rasheed, LB would STILL not have a RING! So lets take it easy on this whole idea that he's the one to get us out of our problems. HE was NOT the GM of the Pistons and wasn't even tthere for much of their construction. He gets very little credit in my book for that team. ANY top coach could've won with that team, Jackson or Riley certainly could've done it. LB is behind those guys in terms of overall coaching ability. LB doesn't have a history of improving a teams offensive production, its almost exclusively on the defensive end. He isn't a motivator of men either. The Pistons were already a pretty determined group when he got there. With the Knicks he had to be prepared to do MUCH more work than he's had to do in YEARS and he wasn't up to the task.

The problem with this post is that it contains many "Would haves" and "could haves" when infact we are dealing with reality and what "HAS" transpired. What did transpire? Larry Brown took the Pistons to 2 straight finals, winning one of them. Before he got there they didnt reach the finals and now that he left they didnt reach the finals. Those are the facts and not "would haves" and "could haves"
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
holfresh
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6/3/2006  1:44 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by nixluva:

The thing is that LB and that Piston team had a good run. Very few teams built like theirs can last in this league. They are a FLUKE. No other recent champions have been built like they have. They almost didn't get back last year!!! People want to say "injuries are part of the game". COME ON! Wade was kicking them in the ASS last year. They couldn't stop him then and not now. Shaq is still capable of being dominant and he showed that this year. The Pistons were LUCKY last year to get back to the finals and this year they got exposed. LB is NOT a miracle worker. IF not for DUMARS great work in getting him Rasheed, LB would STILL not have a RING! So lets take it easy on this whole idea that he's the one to get us out of our problems. HE was NOT the GM of the Pistons and wasn't even tthere for much of their construction. He gets very little credit in my book for that team. ANY top coach could've won with that team, Jackson or Riley certainly could've done it. LB is behind those guys in terms of overall coaching ability. LB doesn't have a history of improving a teams offensive production, its almost exclusively on the defensive end. He isn't a motivator of men either. The Pistons were already a pretty determined group when he got there. With the Knicks he had to be prepared to do MUCH more work than he's had to do in YEARS and he wasn't up to the task.

The problem with this post is that it contains many "Would haves" and "could haves" when infact we are dealing with reality and what "HAS" transpired. What did transpire? Larry Brown took the Pistons to 2 straight finals, winning one of them. Before he got there they didnt reach the finals and now that he left they didnt reach the finals. Those are the facts and not "would haves" and "could haves"



Another fact you keep ignoring is the Knicks being 23-59 under Brown...U keep ignoring the fact that he lost his team during the season...U keep ignoring the fact that attempted a coup and failed...U keep ignoring the fact that this would be the second time he is being fired in consecutive years...
BlueSeats
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6/3/2006  1:52 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by holfresh:


That being said, nothing can erase the shet job that Larry did last year...If left up to his own devices he would further sink this organization in salary hell and field older hurt players in efforts to win now.....NO THANKS.

If you're going to keep asserting this I'm going to continue to press the issue. In Larry's 30 years of coaching, who are the significant kids he's EVER traded for broken down vets?



Keep looking for it cause you will never find it...U keep harping on it and I know your looking...


I think your making BlueSeats point for him... your right you won't find any young players he's traded for older hurt vets. You are agreeing with this sentiment?


No, Blueseats has been saying for days that I made that statment...I'm giving him time to find it...



I don't know what kind of game of semantics you're trying to play here, but you need only look at what starts the little sequence of quotes here, or at any other thread in which I issue my challenge.

You are constantly asserting that Brown wants to trade our kids for broken veterans, presumably giving far greater relevance to some of a gazzillion trade rumors rather than what's transpired over his 30 yr career.

in truth, even if we did acquire a kmart or ratliff you don't know who we'd give up for them or what role they'd be given, or if it would be better or worse than what isiah would do on his own.

I'm not exactly pining for those guys but at the same time, god forbid we should get a guy with heart, or a role player or defender....
BlueSeats
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6/3/2006  1:55 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Another fact you keep ignoring is the Knicks being 23-59 under Brown...U keep ignoring the fact that he lost his team during the season...U keep ignoring the fact that [he] attempted a coup and failed...U keep ignoring the fact that this would be the second time he is being fired in consecutive years...

Oh boy, I can't wait till oohah demands you prove that one.

buddapaw
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6/3/2006  2:10 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by nixluva:

The thing is that LB and that Piston team had a good run. Very few teams built like theirs can last in this league. They are a FLUKE. No other recent champions have been built like they have. They almost didn't get back last year!!! People want to say "injuries are part of the game". COME ON! Wade was kicking them in the ASS last year. They couldn't stop him then and not now. Shaq is still capable of being dominant and he showed that this year. The Pistons were LUCKY last year to get back to the finals and this year they got exposed. LB is NOT a miracle worker. IF not for DUMARS great work in getting him Rasheed, LB would STILL not have a RING! So lets take it easy on this whole idea that he's the one to get us out of our problems. HE was NOT the GM of the Pistons and wasn't even tthere for much of their construction. He gets very little credit in my book for that team. ANY top coach could've won with that team, Jackson or Riley certainly could've done it. LB is behind those guys in terms of overall coaching ability. LB doesn't have a history of improving a teams offensive production, its almost exclusively on the defensive end. He isn't a motivator of men either. The Pistons were already a pretty determined group when he got there. With the Knicks he had to be prepared to do MUCH more work than he's had to do in YEARS and he wasn't up to the task.

The problem with this post is that it contains many "Would haves" and "could haves" when infact we are dealing with reality and what "HAS" transpired. What did transpire? Larry Brown took the Pistons to 2 straight finals, winning one of them. Before he got there they didnt reach the finals and now that he left they didnt reach the finals. Those are the facts and not "would haves" and "could haves"

The guy stole from the Knicks and fans. He stole money from the Team because he didn't do his job, again I will say he is a great coach history proves this, but you can't excuse the crap he did last season. He stole the enjoyment of the game from the fans and the players(when happy they perform way better). 20 games to get to know his players please tell when the 20 games stopped it was more like 78 games. I as a fan is totally disappointed about how he handled the team and the press, when the coach is the main reason for news on your team trust me there is something definately wrong with that. They guy is just a mediawhore, if he was like IT in the press I would given him the doubt but he is always the all eyes on me type of guy. In the so-called mecca of bball that is not going to work.

[Edited by - buddapaw on 06-03-2006 2:12 PM]
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holfresh
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6/3/2006  2:18 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by holfresh:
Another fact you keep ignoring is the Knicks being 23-59 under Brown...U keep ignoring the fact that he lost his team during the season...U keep ignoring the fact that [he] attempted a coup and failed...U keep ignoring the fact that this would be the second time he is being fired in consecutive years...

Oh boy, I can't wait till oohah demands you prove that one.



I don't think that Oohah would argue that Brown tried to undermine Isiah from day one...The guy who got him a 5o mil contract...He tried to go over his head to get approval on trades after Isiah said no to his request...Dolan told him that meeting won't be neccessary...Tell me Blueseats, what would happen to u if you pulled that stunt at your current job....
BlueSeats
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6/3/2006  2:37 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by holfresh:
Another fact you keep ignoring is the Knicks being 23-59 under Brown...U keep ignoring the fact that he lost his team during the season...U keep ignoring the fact that [he] attempted a coup and failed...U keep ignoring the fact that this would be the second time he is being fired in consecutive years...

Oh boy, I can't wait till oohah demands you prove that one.



I don't think that Oohah would argue that Brown tried to undermine Isiah from day one...The guy who got him a 5o mil contract...He tried to go over his head to get approval on trades after Isiah said no to his request...Dolan told him that meeting won't be neccessary...Tell me Blueseats, what would happen to u if you pulled that stunt at your current job....


Show me where LB went over isiah's head specifically on trade deals. All I remember is LB asking dolan for a one on one when it was widely thought either he or Thomas would get canned. A one on one with one's boss is not all that uncommon and something Isiah probably gets whenever he wants.

I think there's greater evidence that isiah undermines his coaches, but you make your case first.
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wow, RV, Holfresh, you "guys" the Pistons arent better without Larry Brown
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