Wasn't it Hardaway who had the biggest problem with D'Antoni, he conforted him a number of times because he thought he still was able to be a go to guy. Which was similar to his run ins with Wilkens. Penny wanted to shoot the ball alot in a half-court style.

Isiah on why Marbury was available from the Suns:

"When we got him here in New York, the reason why we were able to get him is because he has flaws," said Isiah Thomas....it was like nobody could say if he was doing anything wrong. Teammates were afraid. So everybody kind of sniped behind his back, as opposed to trying to help him and teach him."

Thomas speculated that Marbury had tried to lead through intimidation. That certainly seemed to be the case in New Jersey, where Marbury publicly criticized Kerry Kittles and Keith Van Horn; and in Phoenix, where Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion reportedly grew weary of his demeanor.

In regards to Colangelo selling the team:

Colangelo said Monday that the Marbury trade was unrelated to the current events.

Penny on how things went in Phoenix:

Marbury was in the middle of the turmoil that enveloped the Suns.

"It was like guys talking behind each other's backs, guys being selfish, everybody was trying to get their own," Hardaway said. "That leads to trades, and that broke the team up. It doesn't seem like they have any of that going on right now."

Some suggest Marbury may be best suited to play shooting guard, rather than point guard, to maximize his skills and keep him from dominating the ball. "I think a lot of people expect him to be a great point guard, but I don't think that's his main suit," D'Antoni said.

Colangelo and D'antoni on what they get by replacing Steph:

"Steve Nash defined everything we were looking to address on this team," Bryan Colangelo said.

Mike D'Antoni: We think he will have a major impact. The No. 1 thing we lacked last year was leadership and Basketball IQ. And with Steve running the show now, we think we have improved dramatically in both of those areas.


"There are very few players in the league that make other players better and make coaches smarter, and we've got one of them now," Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said.

"There's been something amiss all year, in my opinion," Suns owner Jerry Colangelo said. "The more I saw on the floor, the more I disliked what I saw as it related to body language, communication or lack of same."....

This year's season began with high expectations, but it was obvious that last year's chemistry had, for the most part, disappeared.

"Everybody's got to be in the trench together and it just didn't seem that way," Jerry Colangelo said. "That's not pointing fingers at anyone, but the bottom line was something's got to change."

David Aldridge, ESPN.com

"You may think I hate this deal from the PHX side. I don't hate it, really. I've heard for weeks that Steph and Amaré Stoudemire haven't been feeling one another, that whatever chemistry the Suns had when they took the Spurs to the brink in the first round last spring never returned this season. Even Mike D'Antoni admitted before Monday's game with the Bulls that Steph may have dominated the ball to the detriment of Stoudemire and Shawn Marion."

Then a couple of days after the trade D'antoni says;

Like last night, we’re coming from the road trip and we’re on the plane, just sitting up with the coaches. Barbosa’s watching the game, talking with one coach about his play, then we had Shawn Marion’s up with another coach talking about his play, then we had Jake Voskuhl with another coach looking at his game. And Lampe’s up there just watching the whole scene. That didn’t happen before. There were a lot of expectations and things were going bad. It’s hard for a player to blame himself, so they were either blaming each other or us and it was a negative. *NOW THAT IS LIFTED* and people are stepping out and taking responsibility and they understand where we can go if we do it right. We’re just trying to lay a foundation on how want to play and I think the fans will respond if they give these kids a chance, and I do think the wins will follow. Hopefully, we’re not too far off. I don’t know that for sure because we are young and with Sacramento coming in (Friday) night we have a lot of question marks. I do know that the energy and the concentration and the will is there. If you lay that foundation, you’re going to eventually be successful.

[Edited by - BlueSeats on 06-03-2006 1:31 PM]

Posted by McK1:

blue this has to be at least the 10th time you've refurbished your research into what happened in Phoenix. yet instill someone a week from now will assert "him not buying in is the reason they moved him" as untrue.

Posts from the coach GM and even Isiah about Steph's poor attitude are all their bolded. It makes no sense why people argue otherwise.

'tis a but humorous isn't it....

Thanks Pharzeone. This stuff actually came from those psosts, this is just a condensed version.

But while we're rolling I might as well add the NJ stuff too, just to show Phoenix (and the Knicks) was no isolated instance:

Marbury was a guy whose limitless self-absorption became a devastating influence on the team. He was an area guy (from Rockaway, N. Y.), with a larger posse of "relatives," leeches, and other assorted groupies, camp followers and hangers-on than the Rolling Stones could have hoped for in their pre-AARP days. And a guy whose "it's-me-against-the-world" attitude included ... his teammates.

Fact is, while no one around the Nets is willing to say so till this day, Marbury was a jerk.

It figures: even when the "old" Nets traded for a supertalent--they got Marbury in an enormous three-team, nine-player deal in 1999--they ended up with the wrong one. "The difference between last year and this year?" ponders an emotional Kenyon Martin, taking out his furiously repressed feelings on his sneaker laces in the near-deserted Nets locker room an hour before facing the Indiana Pacers. `This year we have guys who want to play. Last year we had some people in here who were too busy tapping themselves on the shoulder, telling themselves how great they were."

"Last year, we didn't play any defense," forward Aaron Williams, a 6'10" supersub, chimes in from the next stall. "On any NBA team, the leader sets the tone. And our leader didn't bother playing D most nights."

"He thought he was too good for that--then he'd blame everybody else, pointing fingers," Martin adds. "I'm not naming any names, you understand, but this was an unhappy, divided locker room last year. And the division was one guy on one side and everyone else on the other."

"Yes, we did have one guy in here last year who thought he was too good for everybody else on the team and didn't mind saying so," smiles GM Rod Thorn, still remaining strictly incognito about the "one guy's" identity. "And he was, too. Better than everyone else, that is. But it all didn't add up to much, did it?"

What it added up to was a woeful 26-56 record, with an even a woeful-er 57-107 over the entire "Marbury Era;" to be exact.

"Still, thank God for Stephon," Thorn says. "Without him, we could have never gotten the other kid."

That's the other Kidd, Rod.

[Edited by - BlueSeats on 06-03-2006 2:47 PM]

the Mebury tri-fecta

Getting Falked
Agent provocateur David Falk made Stephon Marbury a Nets gain

By Jackie MacMullan


Stephon Marbury, who's been chanting "There's no place like home" for months now, clicked his heels three times and finally got his wish. The Coney Island native forced the Timberwolves to trade him to New Jersey last Thursday after providing them with a short list of acceptable destinations: New York, New Jersey or Los Angeles. Marbury, through his agent, David Falk, forced Minnesota's hand by threatening to walk at season's end and sign with the Bulls.

Marbury says that his threat to sign with Chicago this summer as a free agent was no bull. Bob Rosato
"Go ahead," was general manager Kevin McHale's initial reply. He couldn't believe Marbury would forsake a team that was developing into a championship contender for a dynasty in ruins. Upon hearing that McHale was prepared to call Marbury's bluff, Falk, who refused to deal with McHale, informed Minnesota owner Glen Taylor, "I can put together my own team in Chicago." The implication was that Falk would dump his stable of free agents -- among them Marbury, Nets guard Kerry Kittles and Cavaliers center Vitaly Potapenko -- into the lap of Chicago general manager Jerry Krause. When Taylor became convinced that Marbury was a lost cause, he told McHale to make a trade.

Both McHale and coach Flip Saunders wanted to seek a package from the Nets that included Kittles, but Falk told them Kittles had no interest in playing for Minnesota. The Timberwolves believe Falk promised to deliver Marbury to the Nets in exchange for a lucrative extension for Kittles, who, by the way, signed a six-year extension last Saturday worth $52 million.

Minnesota then decided that it had to get a high first-round draft pick and an All-Star-caliber point guard for Marbury. The Lakers and the Knicks, who were both very interested in Marbury, could provide neither. Ultimately, the Timberwolves pulled the trigger on a three-way swap: New Jersey point guard Sam Cassell, Nets power forward Chris Gatling and Minnesota center Paul Grant to Milwaukee; Bucks guard Elliott Perry, Marbury and two other Timberwolves, forward Bill Curley and guard Chris Carr, to New Jersey; and Milwaukee point guard Terrell Brandon, Nets forward Brian Evans and a conditional package of first-round Nets picks to Minnesota. In announcing the trade, a bitter McHale told reporters, "Falk told Steph those five words: 'I'm going to help you.' Whenever an agent says that, the player should grab his wallet and run like hell."

What most bewilders the Timberwolves is that Marbury would rather play on a team in turmoil (the Nets were 3-17 as of last Monday, when they fired coach John Calipari) than stay with a team that seemed destined for greatness. McHale, however, concedes that Marbury has the skills to turn New Jersey around -- fast. "The kid can flatout play," says McHale. "That's why we got him in the first place."

There is no denying Marbury's talent, but there is room to question his priorities and his commitment to winning. Marbury told SI in January 1998 that he was thinking of bolting Minnesota when his contract was up because of the weather and because he missed his New York friends. This news stunned the Timberwolves' front office, which later discovered that Marbury had made those comments just days after a local night spot refused to serve him alcohol because he was underage. "They give me my own table in New York!" Marbury reportedly fumed between expletives.

At his press conference last Friday, Marbury insisted that reuniting with friends and family was his main objective in forcing the trade. Minnesota says Marbury believed he was missing out on endorsements because he was playing in a small-market city, and that he couldn't accept being paid less than teammate Kevin Garnett because Marbury views himself as the better player. Garnett signed a seven-year, $126 million extension before the new collective bargaining agreement went into effect; under the new deal, the most Marbury could make in Minnesota was $70.9 million for six years, which New Jersey gladly gave him last Friday.

The departure of Marbury left his ex-teammates shell-shocked. They had no trouble overlooking his mood swings because of his exceptional skills. "Steph changed like the wind, from one day to the next," McHale says. "Even on the court, there was the good Steph and the bad Steph. The bad Steph thought only about his game. The good Steph moved the ball, got others involved, took big shots. We got him up to being that guy around 80 percent of the time near the end, which was up from 25 percent when we first got him."

The Timberwolves are left to ponder what happened to their promising foundation of Garnett, Marbury and Tom Gugliotta, who took a lot less money to sign with Phoenix in January. Saunders says Gugliotta had told Minnesota he would re-sign with the Timberwolves -- if they agreed to trade Marbury.

Minnesota must now try to pick up the pieces, beginning with Brandon, who can become a free agent this summer. Both sides say it's quite possible that Brandon and the Timberwolves will agree on a contract extension, although the terms will depend on what Minnesota gets with its newly acquired draft pick. If the Timberwolves draft a point guard (they, along with every other team in the league, love Maryland's Steve Francis), they might make an amicable sign-and-trade deal involving Brandon. Why such optimism about a potential free agent, in light of their recent experiences with Marbury and Gugliotta? Maybe because Brandon is represented by Bill Duffy, McHale's former teammate and roommate at the University of Minnesota -- "a guy who really does have his client's best interests at heart," says McHale.

Falk scolds McHale for his "unprofessional comments" regarding Marbury's departure. "Can you say my fingerprints are all over this? Absolutely," Falk says. "I negotiated a deal to get my client where he wanted to go -- home. I helped [the Timberwolves] out of a potentially disastrous situation.

"Did this work out better, or worse, than the Gugliotta situation? If Kevin McHale had called Stephon's bluff, Minnesota would have ended up with nothing."

McHale is clearly dismayed. "We live in a Nintendo world," he said last week. "If you don't like the game, press the restart button. Steph wants better endorsements, more TV exposure. I tried to tell him, it's not where you are, it's whether you win. The Clippers are in L.A. How often are they on TV? And these days you can't get Indiana off the tube because it's winning all the time. I wonder if Steph has noticed the Nets are 3-15. If he wants to be on TV with them, he better get cable."

Marbury was being planned to be moved before D'Antoni even got there. Layden was in talks for Marbury before Isiah even got there. And yes they did change there mind. After they figured out that Amare Stoudemire was going to be the face of the franchise. Marbury then was expendable because of the money he was owed. Lets not forget that they were also selling the team. #2 they decided that they wanted to rebuild around Marion & Stoudemire. They figured they could use Marbury to unload Penny as well to have the cap space to build around those guys. If Marbury wasn't owed as much as he was. And Penny was off the books. They would have probably just moved Marbury to SG and brought in a pass first floor general PG reguardless.

I already presented myself in the Blueseats marbury is a cancer manscript thread. I guess you guys only wanted to take in what you wanted to hear. Then you guys tried to play me by saying that I got my information from one columnist who changed then changed his mind. Which wasn't true. But I didn't really care because, I didn't care for the arguement to much anymore. I just wanted to bring up another side. So everyone would be able to see both sides and a more objective view rather than just the case you brought up.

http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=15767&page=5

Im going to only use twuo quotes quote here though.

"We loved Steph," Colangelo said. "But we were swimming upstream financially and we got off to a slow start. So we jumped

&

Much has been made of Marbury's problems with the Nets when he was with New Jersey, but he has matured, and there were no such problems with Phoenix. True, Suns All-Star small forward Shawn Marion has grumbled about not getting enough shots with Marbury, who tends to dominate the ball. But Marion peaked at 18.1 shots per game last year with Marbury and averaged 14.7 during his last season with Jason Kidd in 2000-01.

And there have been folks whispering to second-year power forward Amare Stoudemire that Marbury was not doing enough to make the big man a cog in the offense. But Stoudemire, for all of his physical gifts, is not yet polished enough to be a featured offensive option.


Now Amare and Marbury only played 3 games under D'Antoni together after Amare came back from injury. Marbury has played a total of 13games under D'Antoni. Again Layden was in talks to land Marbury before D'Antonti became the head coach promoting his uptempo style. If they were looking to dump Marbury for the reasons you guys are talking about then Layden would have gotten him for Dice ending salary & our draft & maybe Milos or Lampe when he was in talks with him way earlier. But he couldn't get him for that. Look at the Francis deal. Thats the value of a player that the team feels is cancer to his team. Am I turning my face away from the other stuff. No of course not. But none of that stuff was the deciding factor and probably blown up bigger than it was because of them losing. The fact that he was owed so much is what pushed them to make the deal. Everything else is a distant second. Like its just a coincidence that the 2 guys who didn't buy in for the 13games they played also just convinently happen to have overpaid maxed out contracts.

To be real. I think they were combining the stuff happening under Frank Johnson's camp with the stuff happening under D'Antoni camp.

That quote could be so easily manipulated. You guys just assume that Marbury & Penny didn't buy into the system because they were the ones traded. While everyone else did from the door. How do we know that NOBODY bought in the system right away from the door. How do we know that Marbury didn't try and buy into the system, but just wasn't consistant with it. Looking at his game log he has a game where he had 17assist and another game with 11assist with games of less like 8 & 9 and 6 & 7. Does that mean the Marbury didn't buy into it. None of us know the facts of the sitution. None of us even remember the games if they ever watched them. I don't remember Suns winning to many games after the trade either. How do we know it didn't take Nash running the system to perfection as the system all depends on the PG's creativity in creating for others. For all we know Marion & Stoudemire were as much at fault as Marbury & Penny at that time. But Marion & Stoudemire were more important to the franchise than Marbury & Penny.

Truthfully I believe both cases go hand and hand with each other. Though I believe the salary was more of a deciding factor in them actually moving Marbury than anything else. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that part.

Why are we concerned with Larry's next position? He's still the Knicks coach. If he's bought out or fired, who cares where he goes next?

It goes with the quote by the GM on how Isiah offerd them a deal they couldn't refuse. Just look at the deal they got. Even if Marbury was a perfect angle unless he was doing what Nash is doing now, and had that team in the range of like 28-6. No way do they turn down that deal because they just extended Marbury. Layden was in talks with the Suns about Marbury before D'Antoni was brought in to even see if Marbury was going to accept the system or not. So him and Penny being moved for not buying into the system with only a 13game sample with Amare out for 4weeks during that span deosn't hold enough weight. Does anyone remember watching those games to see how Marbury's was running the system??

I have no proof of who made the first phone call, but it doesn't even matter. I do know that the suns were in talks with Layden with the thought of moving Marbury & Penny as they could fall back on Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson, plus see how Barbosa could handle running the team at a cheaper price, and still have a bright future. Marbury was extended during the preseason. Im guessing the thoughts of last season on how they overachieved, how they pushed the Spurs in the playoffs. Marbury looking like he was turning into a true superstar. They probably were negotiating that deal for most of the summer, and finaly did it in preseason.

Layden could have called earlier and offerd a deal. They sat back and thought about it hard. Thought about the possibility of them moving Marbury and Penny's contracts off there hands. Thought about the losing. Thought about how they were doing poorly at the gate. With the complaints from Marion & Amare on how Marbury wasn't getting the ball to them enough also in there minds. Or they could have thought about those things before hand and decided to shop around and finaly reached Layden.

Now if Marbury was truly the cancer to that team that you make him out to be. Then you know Layden would have been able to get him for a lot cheaper earlier on. If they just had to get Marbury off that team as he was doing so much damage. Then they would have presented Layden with an offer of HIS liking to dump him. As they would have been the ones who felt they were in a position of weakness. They were in talks for a little while which means negotiations. Which means Layden wanted to give or take back less than what the Suns were willing &/or Suns wanted to take back less or wanted more than what the Knicks were willing. F.Williams, Dice & #1 our draft pick would have been easily been done, if Suns just had to dump Marbury. And knowing Layden you and me both know he would have jumped on that deal with ease.

In a statement released by the Suns, in which Suns coach Mike D'Antoni expressed his appreciation for Marbury's work ethic, he also said: "Are we probably going to take a little step backwards? Yeah, in the beginning. But with the cap room that we now have and with the draft picks we are going to have, along with the core of young players that will get a lot of playing time, we're excited about it. I think that in the long run this is the way to get to a higher level of play. In the short term a little pain, but in the long term we hope there's a big gain."

Doesn't sound to me he is looking at it as addition by subtraction. Unless you want to spin the quote to your liking. But this is a usual quote for teams when they make rebuilding types of moves. As for his "now that that is lifted" comment. The Marbury move made a clear path the direction of the franchise. That they were in rebuild mode and that they were commmiteed to Amare, Marion & Joe Johnson. With Penny & Marbury out of the way all those touches that they get now go to Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson's. Plus they don't have anyone to blame anymore. Just like Shaq being traded away from Kobe now was "lifted" from Kobe. He doesn't have to worry about beefing with Shaq since Shaq isn't there anymore. Its minor comments like that which you have a habit of blowing up into a big deal. Again if Marbury was that much of a cancer to the team the (go over the paragraph above). If you root all the supposed problems with Amare & Marion & Marbury it all seems to stem to Marbury playing PG and looking to score when he should be moved to SG. One thing I must add is Marbury had less attempts, more assist, stls, less Tos playing a more effiecent game then the season before when they won 44games. But there was less complaining. So when he shot the ball more and passed the ball less and won 44games people where happier than when he shot the ball less and passed the ball morel, and they were losing.

Question: Was there a shift in the Suns’ chemistry this season?

Colangelo: A lot of things happened over the course of the summer. A lot of guys that were in early the year before weren’t this year. I think to some degree that we got a little comfortable and we made a chemistry-changing move that altered where we were and that was the (Bo) Outlaw-(Jake) Tsakalidis trade. We also had a coaching change for obvious reasons that we’ve already stated and talked about. We decided to go in a different direction and then you look at where we are from a competitive standpoint with a $66 million payroll in a very difficult Western Conference. It became pretty clear to us that the only way out was to make a move like this, but it had to be a move of this magnitude. It’s staggering when you look at the numbers how it will affect us, not only today but in the future, and that all equates to flexibility and operating with more efficiency, and turning this thing into something we really want to turn it into. It’s crafting it and shaping it and molding it the way we want to do it. We were stuck. We had what we had and we had two players that were injured, who we like a lot and we think certainly they make us better (when they return). But we weren’t going to jump up into the top five in the West. Call us a team of the future – yesterday and today – because that is where we are looking.

"But it had to be a move of this magnitude".(Flashback with the comments on the Marbury not just being dumped for being a cancer, and the Layden negoitions comments by me above) Meaning it had to be a deal where they are able to dump Marbury & Pennys contract in order to save themselves from having a 66mil payroll and still being a mediocre team."We were stuck".

Another quote from Colangelo

"This is a big picture kind of move, and a bold move," Colangelo said. "We didn't have flexibility under the cap, and we were hamstrung by some contracts. This allows us to be a player in free agency if we choose to. This is not a talent-for-talent deal."

Tell me if Marbury was such a bad apple over there. Why couldn't they have just came out and said so??? Kenyon Martin & Byron Scott had no trouble doing so. Probably because he wasn't. The dissagreements came with him being a shoot first PG. In Jersey he was just an *******.

Now do I feel that Marbury was perfect, and ONLY was moved for salary reasons. Again no, there were the other things factord into as well which you bring up. The lack of leadership needed for a player with his salary, and the lack of winning games.