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detroit looks lost...
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Bonn1997
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5/28/2006  9:19 PM
They can catch on all they want but they still can't defend it man-to-man
AUTOADVERT
BlueSeats
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5/29/2006  5:18 PM
Ben Wallace blames Saunders
Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

Ben Wallace, the NBA's defensive player of the year, can't stomach being on a team that allows the opposition to shoot nearly 60 percent in two of the last three games. In fact, he said he can barely recognize the defense his team is playing in this series.

"It's like night and day (from last year)," he said. "We've gone from like the first- or second-best team in the league in holding teams to low field-goal percentage to now we're in the middle of the pack. It's night and day."

He put some of the blame on coach Flip Saunders for putting too much emphasis on the offense.

"We work more on offense," Wallace said. "We practice more on the offensive end, than we do on the defensive end. What you practice hard you usually bring to the game."

To be fair, the Pistons locked the Heat down for all but 1:46 of Game 2 and set playoff records in holding the Cavaliers to 61 points in Game 7. The defense has been inconsistent, yes, but not altogether horrible.

"It doesn't matter how I feel," Wallace said. "No one player is bigger than the team. I don't think we're that far off. Some nights, we come out and show it. Some other nights, we come out and go through the motions. We're not that far off. We just need everybody to get involved defensively and commit ourselves to getting it done on both ends of the floor."


It's not an exact parallel, to be sure, but I just figured out what their situation is reminding me of more and more:

Don Nelson with the Knicks.

You don't take a team that's having sustained success and bring in a radical new agenda. Larry and Riley were both defensive minded coaches who solidified the teams identity and foundation on that premise and both Nelly and Flipster are primarily offensive minded. It doesn't seem to be the effective direction to go.

I have a feeling one would find taking a high caliber offensive team and bringing in a defensive taskmaster (Dallas and Avery) yields a better result more often than not.
Marv
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5/29/2006  5:31 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Ben Wallace blames Saunders
Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

Ben Wallace, the NBA's defensive player of the year, can't stomach being on a team that allows the opposition to shoot nearly 60 percent in two of the last three games. In fact, he said he can barely recognize the defense his team is playing in this series.

"It's like night and day (from last year)," he said. "We've gone from like the first- or second-best team in the league in holding teams to low field-goal percentage to now we're in the middle of the pack. It's night and day."

He put some of the blame on coach Flip Saunders for putting too much emphasis on the offense.

"We work more on offense," Wallace said. "We practice more on the offensive end, than we do on the defensive end. What you practice hard you usually bring to the game."

To be fair, the Pistons locked the Heat down for all but 1:46 of Game 2 and set playoff records in holding the Cavaliers to 61 points in Game 7. The defense has been inconsistent, yes, but not altogether horrible.

"It doesn't matter how I feel," Wallace said. "No one player is bigger than the team. I don't think we're that far off. Some nights, we come out and show it. Some other nights, we come out and go through the motions. We're not that far off. We just need everybody to get involved defensively and commit ourselves to getting it done on both ends of the floor."


It's not an exact parallel, to be sure, but I just figured out what their situation is reminding me of more and more:

Don Nelson with the Knicks.

You don't take a team that's having sustained success and bring in a radical new agenda. Larry and Riley were both defensive minded coaches who solidified the teams identity and foundation on that premise and both Nelly and Flipster are primarily offensive minded. It doesn't seem to be the effective direction to go.

I have a feeling one would find taking a high caliber offensive team and bringing in a defensive taskmaster (Dallas and Avery) yields a better result more often than not.

yeah but they did win 63 or 64 games with flip's system, right? and they're in the eastern conference finals. so i'd say they've been pretty successful to this point. even with injuries and a thinner bench.
rojasmas
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5/29/2006  8:51 PM
Rasheed Wallace takes as many nights off as Tim Thomas. For the life of me, I can't understand why he doesn't take more shi# for it.
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
Bonn1997
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5/29/2006  9:08 PM
He doesn't take off on defense; only on offense. He's the exact reverse of TT.
Pharzeone
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5/29/2006  9:31 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Ben Wallace blames Saunders
Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

Ben Wallace, the NBA's defensive player of the year, can't stomach being on a team that allows the opposition to shoot nearly 60 percent in two of the last three games. In fact, he said he can barely recognize the defense his team is playing in this series.

"It's like night and day (from last year)," he said. "We've gone from like the first- or second-best team in the league in holding teams to low field-goal percentage to now we're in the middle of the pack. It's night and day."

He put some of the blame on coach Flip Saunders for putting too much emphasis on the offense.

"We work more on offense," Wallace said. "We practice more on the offensive end, than we do on the defensive end. What you practice hard you usually bring to the game."

To be fair, the Pistons locked the Heat down for all but 1:46 of Game 2 and set playoff records in holding the Cavaliers to 61 points in Game 7. The defense has been inconsistent, yes, but not altogether horrible.

"It doesn't matter how I feel," Wallace said. "No one player is bigger than the team. I don't think we're that far off. Some nights, we come out and show it. Some other nights, we come out and go through the motions. We're not that far off. We just need everybody to get involved defensively and commit ourselves to getting it done on both ends of the floor."


It's not an exact parallel, to be sure, but I just figured out what their situation is reminding me of more and more:

Don Nelson with the Knicks.

You don't take a team that's having sustained success and bring in a radical new agenda. Larry and Riley were both defensive minded coaches who solidified the teams identity and foundation on that premise and both Nelly and Flipster are primarily offensive minded. It doesn't seem to be the effective direction to go.

I have a feeling one would find taking a high caliber offensive team and bringing in a defensive taskmaster (Dallas and Avery) yields a better result more often than not.

Pat Riley is the X-factor. Instead of wondering about what Flip and the Pistons are doing, look at what Riley has done. He brought in players that were not known for defense and got them playing it. The man can take an average player and raise their level. It is amazing. No wonder Shaq likes to play against Big Ben because the officials let him play his style of ball.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
crzymdups
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5/29/2006  9:49 PM
Pistons aren't done yet...
¿ △ ?
djsunyc
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5/29/2006  10:33 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:

i never said they would beat miami. all i said is that they look considerably different from last year's team. they looked the same way vs. the cavs too.

Sheed hurt himself in Game 4 vs. CLE. Rip Hamilton hurt himself in the first round. it's limited them both. do you remember Rip earlier this season? he was unguardable off that screen and curl play. he's clearly playing hurt. so now instead of a Rip/Sheed/Ben/Tayshun/Chauncey its Chauncey/Tayshun/Ben/Dyess.

last year Detroit was completely healthy in the Eastern Finals and Wade and Shaq were banged up. And the series still went 7. so now that Wade is healthy and the Pistons have some injury/bumps & bruises you're surprised that the Heat are winning the close games they lost last time?

the players are pretty much saying it's the coaching.
Pharzeone
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5/29/2006  10:38 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:

i never said they would beat miami. all i said is that they look considerably different from last year's team. they looked the same way vs. the cavs too.

Sheed hurt himself in Game 4 vs. CLE. Rip Hamilton hurt himself in the first round. it's limited them both. do you remember Rip earlier this season? he was unguardable off that screen and curl play. he's clearly playing hurt. so now instead of a Rip/Sheed/Ben/Tayshun/Chauncey its Chauncey/Tayshun/Ben/Dyess.

last year Detroit was completely healthy in the Eastern Finals and Wade and Shaq were banged up. And the series still went 7. so now that Wade is healthy and the Pistons have some injury/bumps & bruises you're surprised that the Heat are winning the close games they lost last time?

the players are pretty much saying it's the coaching.

What player?
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
djsunyc
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5/29/2006  10:40 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:

i never said they would beat miami. all i said is that they look considerably different from last year's team. they looked the same way vs. the cavs too.

Sheed hurt himself in Game 4 vs. CLE. Rip Hamilton hurt himself in the first round. it's limited them both. do you remember Rip earlier this season? he was unguardable off that screen and curl play. he's clearly playing hurt. so now instead of a Rip/Sheed/Ben/Tayshun/Chauncey its Chauncey/Tayshun/Ben/Dyess.

last year Detroit was completely healthy in the Eastern Finals and Wade and Shaq were banged up. And the series still went 7. so now that Wade is healthy and the Pistons have some injury/bumps & bruises you're surprised that the Heat are winning the close games they lost last time?

the players are pretty much saying it's the coaching.

What player?

Ben Wallace blames Saunders
Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

Ben Wallace, the NBA's defensive player of the year, can't stomach being on a team that allows the opposition to shoot nearly 60 percent in two of the last three games. In fact, he said he can barely recognize the defense his team is playing in this series.

"It's like night and day (from last year)," he said. "We've gone from like the first- or second-best team in the league in holding teams to low field-goal percentage to now we're in the middle of the pack. It's night and day."

He put some of the blame on coach Flip Saunders for putting too much emphasis on the offense.

"We work more on offense," Wallace said. "We practice more on the offensive end, than we do on the defensive end. What you practice hard you usually bring to the game."

To be fair, the Pistons locked the Heat down for all but 1:46 of Game 2 and set playoff records in holding the Cavaliers to 61 points in Game 7. The defense has been inconsistent, yes, but not altogether horrible.

"It doesn't matter how I feel," Wallace said. "No one player is bigger than the team. I don't think we're that far off. Some nights, we come out and show it. Some other nights, we come out and go through the motions. We're not that far off. We just need everybody to get involved defensively and commit ourselves to getting it done on both ends of the floor."
Pharzeone
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5/29/2006  10:48 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:

i never said they would beat miami. all i said is that they look considerably different from last year's team. they looked the same way vs. the cavs too.

Sheed hurt himself in Game 4 vs. CLE. Rip Hamilton hurt himself in the first round. it's limited them both. do you remember Rip earlier this season? he was unguardable off that screen and curl play. he's clearly playing hurt. so now instead of a Rip/Sheed/Ben/Tayshun/Chauncey its Chauncey/Tayshun/Ben/Dyess.

last year Detroit was completely healthy in the Eastern Finals and Wade and Shaq were banged up. And the series still went 7. so now that Wade is healthy and the Pistons have some injury/bumps & bruises you're surprised that the Heat are winning the close games they lost last time?

the players are pretty much saying it's the coaching.

What player?

Ben Wallace blames Saunders
Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

Ben Wallace, the NBA's defensive player of the year, can't stomach being on a team that allows the opposition to shoot nearly 60 percent in two of the last three games. In fact, he said he can barely recognize the defense his team is playing in this series.

"It's like night and day (from last year)," he said. "We've gone from like the first- or second-best team in the league in holding teams to low field-goal percentage to now we're in the middle of the pack. It's night and day."

He put some of the blame on coach Flip Saunders for putting too much emphasis on the offense.

"We work more on offense," Wallace said. "We practice more on the offensive end, than we do on the defensive end. What you practice hard you usually bring to the game."

To be fair, the Pistons locked the Heat down for all but 1:46 of Game 2 and set playoff records in holding the Cavaliers to 61 points in Game 7. The defense has been inconsistent, yes, but not altogether horrible.

"It doesn't matter how I feel," Wallace said. "No one player is bigger than the team. I don't think we're that far off. Some nights, we come out and show it. Some other nights, we come out and go through the motions. We're not that far off. We just need everybody to get involved defensively and commit ourselves to getting it done on both ends of the floor."

I don't think Saunders is telling Wallace to allow to back him down and score on him. I think Wallace is "making" those decisions on his own, well atleast it looks like it. Wallace is learning how tough it is to play against a motivated and healthy Shaq. Not so easy. Wallace brings little else to table except his defense. Both Wallaces are getting beat by Shaq and Walker to loose balls. Like I said it before, at some point it isn't about what Detroit is doing but like Breen has been saying for most of Game 4, Shaq looks like he did 10 years ago. Wade said he hasn't seen Shaq play with this much energy since he was in Orlando.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
djsunyc
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5/29/2006  10:52 PM
detroit's shot selection is VERY questionable. i'll take ben's word on the matter.
I don't think Saunders is telling Wallace to allow to back him down and score on him. I think Wallace is "making" those decisions on his own, well atleast it looks like it.

this is dangerously close to putting on the player and not the coach...
joec32033
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5/29/2006  10:56 PM
I've said it since before the All-Star break. Detroit has totally lost it's identity and Flip is the cause. A lax offensive coach who undervalues defense taking on a strong defensive team with a bunch of mid-level scorers would cause issues.

~You can't run from who you are.~
holfresh
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5/29/2006  10:59 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

detroit's shot selection is VERY questionable. i'll take ben's word on the matter.
I don't think Saunders is telling Wallace to allow to back him down and score on him. I think Wallace is "making" those decisions on his own, well atleast it looks like it.

this is dangerously close to putting on the player and not the coach...



My my how the tables have turned...Holding the coach responsible..I always agree with that...
djsunyc
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5/29/2006  11:01 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by djsunyc:

detroit's shot selection is VERY questionable. i'll take ben's word on the matter.
I don't think Saunders is telling Wallace to allow to back him down and score on him. I think Wallace is "making" those decisions on his own, well atleast it looks like it.

this is dangerously close to putting on the player and not the coach...



My my how the tables have turned...Holding the coach responsible..I always agree with that...


it was a sarcastic comment...
joec32033
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5/29/2006  11:01 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by djsunyc:

detroit's shot selection is VERY questionable. i'll take ben's word on the matter.
I don't think Saunders is telling Wallace to allow to back him down and score on him. I think Wallace is "making" those decisions on his own, well atleast it looks like it.

this is dangerously close to putting on the player and not the coach...



My my how the tables have turned...Holding the coach responsible..I always agree with that...


Bro this is the EXACT same team that LB had and took to the finals twice playing a certain way. The only thing that changed was the coach and the philosophy. There is no was you can compare this to the Knicks situation.
~You can't run from who you are.~
Nalod
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5/29/2006  11:08 PM
Mess with success.

The owner and Dumars changed the direction of the team.

How, by hiring flip.

Forget larry cuz its a new season.

But........

The character of the Pistons was the defense. That they trusted, and that was their charactor.

Why mess with success?

Regular season was I guess not as telling as it did look easy.

Heat Have adopted a tougher charactor also. Riles is about Defense.

Now lets not forget about larry. ANd lets preach defense.
Elite
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5/29/2006  11:23 PM
the pistons r making larry brown look good
holfresh
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5/29/2006  11:37 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by djsunyc:

detroit's shot selection is VERY questionable. i'll take ben's word on the matter.
I don't think Saunders is telling Wallace to allow to back him down and score on him. I think Wallace is "making" those decisions on his own, well atleast it looks like it.

this is dangerously close to putting on the player and not the coach...



My my how the tables have turned...Holding the coach responsible..I always agree with that...


Bro this is the EXACT same team that LB had and took to the finals twice playing a certain way. The only thing that changed was the coach and the philosophy. There is no was you can compare this to the Knicks situation.



Yeah true only difference is that Detroit is the team that's hurt and Miami is healthy...

But I don't agree that you hold one coach responsible and not the other...



[Edited by - holfresh on 05-29-2006 11:59 PM]
oohah
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5/30/2006  12:05 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by djsunyc:

detroit's shot selection is VERY questionable. i'll take ben's word on the matter.
I don't think Saunders is telling Wallace to allow to back him down and score on him. I think Wallace is "making" those decisions on his own, well atleast it looks like it.

this is dangerously close to putting on the player and not the coach...



My my how the tables have turned...Holding the coach responsible..I always agree with that...


Bro this is the EXACT same team that LB had and took to the finals twice playing a certain way. The only thing that changed was the coach and the philosophy. There is no was you can compare this to the Knicks situation.



Yeah true only difference is that Detroit is the team that's hurt and Miami is healthy...

But I don't agree that you hold one coach responsible and not the other...



[Edited by - holfresh on 05-29-2006 11:59 PM]



Another big difference is that this Miami team is much better than last years team. Wade has grown, Shaq is healthy and they have added Walker, Posey, and Williams. Last year Mourning was rusty, this year he is much more in the groove.

Another difference is Rasheed Wallace. This guy is so mentally soft it's incredible. He joined Detroit on a mission because he was traded, but last year he made some real boneheaded plays in the finals, and this year he has been not very good. I'm tired of him.

The guy who is really being exposed is Kobe. Shaq is showing that Kobe can be replaced. Shaq cannot be replaced.

oohah




[Edited by - oohah on 05-30-2006 12:08 AM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
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detroit looks lost...
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