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lenny wilkens on the knicks
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Pharzeone
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5/18/2006  11:35 AM
Posted by VDesai:

Isiah is a wacko. Keeps hiring coaches he can't even get on the same page with. Too do this bad of a job you almost have to be doing it on purpose.

That's the thing. IMO Isiah has allowed Brown to do what he wants. I think he has backed off throughout the season. I don't remember Thomas having a big problem with TT but Brown didn't like him at all and was a throw in the Curry trade to get AD who would have finished the season if he conducted himself or if wife would have behave. Brown had a tough time even trying to defend him. Those trades during the season were Browns. Hell Thomas even apologize for the JJ signing saying he wouldn't have made signings before Brown's hiring if he knew that Larry would be coaching. I think they are all willing to do what Brown's ask but Brown is crazy. He wants Marbury gone, Thomas went out actively trying to trade him. He wants K-Mart, Thomas set out trying to see what it takes to acquire him. It was the owner that step in and say hey wait if Brown's is so unhappy with all the players maybe it cheaper to just move the coach. Thomas has been supportive of Brown during the year, telling players publicly to toughen up and listen to the coach but asking Brown to keep the matters in the locker room. I agree that Thomas and Wilkens were not on the same page. But with Brown, Thomas was doing what the man asked.
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fishmike
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5/18/2006  11:47 AM
please please please stop. Larry Brown is NOT the GM. Those trades were Isiah's and nobody elses. We have been over this 1000 times. Please stop insulting us by saying Isiah is somehow not responsible for Rose/Francis because Larry Brown asked for them. When Isiah gets fired and Larry is in charge of personel then this discussion will change.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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5/18/2006  11:48 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
That's the thing. IMO Isiah has allowed Brown to do what he wants.
Either way its Isiah's fault.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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5/18/2006  11:51 AM
Posted by fishmike:

please please please stop. Larry Brown is NOT the GM. Those trades were Isiah's and nobody elses. We have been over this 1000 times. Please stop insulting us by saying Isiah is somehow not responsible for Rose/Francis because Larry Brown asked for them. When Isiah gets fired and Larry is in charge of personel then this discussion will change.

the divide between brown and isiah was never more evident than the qyntel woods signing when isiah said "hey, i didn't want him, larry did." which begs the question whether they were ever on the same page or not. looks like lb had to constantly look over his shoulder...as did lenny before him...and chaney before him.

larry says get me francis. isiah had two options - yes or no. by saying yes, when he feels no, means isiah has no role on this team anymore.
Bippity10
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5/18/2006  12:23 PM
You have to understand that there is no accountability here. People pass the buck on trades and say who's responsible because they don't want to get fired. They are supposed to be on the same page so who's idea should be irrelevant.
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crzymdups
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5/18/2006  12:26 PM
great article. I loved Lenny. Hey, I think it's time for Zeke to put up or shut up. If he has to have his team, he has to coach it. If he can't, bring in someone who can play nice.
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Bippity10
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5/18/2006  12:27 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

yeah, I agree with that...he has a vision for the team and nobody believes him but Dolan. If a coach can come on board and simply accept that he may have a clue what he's doing, then we would be o.k. but everyone wants to put their stamp on the knicks and each stamp has nothing to do with making the knicks better, each stamp has to do with their own legacy.

why can't they just coach...lenny definitely coached while he was here...that team was only the best under isiah because lenny got the best out of them.

I'm still putting my money on this bunch being the best, they are by far the best on paper.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 05-18-2006 10:28 AM]


rvhoss: Obviously you are not a coach. Noone tells me how to coach. Noone tells me what I should want as a coach. I have a philosophy that I do not change. IF you don't like that philosophy don't hire me.

IT hired LB. LB's philosophy has been the same for 30 years. If that does not fit with Isiah's plan then he should not hire him. That's Isiah's problem that he keeps making over and over again. He hires names to get us all hyped up. We get excited. He extends his job. And then he undermines the coach the entire time. Wake up. Five coach's in 3 years. Two hall of famers. They didn't forget to coach when they got here
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Swishfm3
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5/18/2006  12:37 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

whatever makes you feel better.
Frye is better than KVH, QRich is better than shandon, curry better than doleac (even out of shape), franchise better than frank williams, the list goes on and on...I'd even take jackie b over zeke.

It's just a matter of getting this crew to work...no more trades...I think we have our role players already...QWoods is my new fave, and he plays defense as well.

I'm still going on record as saying I want this team to stay as is...if LB has a problem with them, then he should walk, otherwise, these are the knicks.

Love 'em or leave 'em.


agree 100%
rvhoss
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5/18/2006  12:40 PM
if he didn't hire LB, you'd be calling for his head, now that he hired him, you are calling for his head.

I agree with you bip, if he can't adjust, walk. If he is really that unhappy, retired or resign, otherwise, shut your mouth and come back and coach.

If you don't like the team, fax your resignation ala Riley, but this whole pay me to leave stuff is for the birds.

If he is so right, he should just walk, otherwise, it's next town brown all over again and Zeke was as fooled as you were when we hired him.

Now you want to say it's Zeke's fault for being fooled...oh well, coaches will cover for coaches. Players will cover for players. But fans will always go with the team.

One man does not make the knicks, if one person leaves the knicks (from the top to the bottom) I won't bat an eye.
all kool aid all the time.
Bippity10
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5/18/2006  12:57 PM
How can you be fooled by LB? He's coached the same way forever. The bottome line is Zeke hired him to create a buzz, that's the NY way. YOu are just buying into that buzz without realizing it. Now the buzz technique is to blame the coach to get the fans off the GM so that he can save his job once again. Stop believing the smoke signals and see the absolute mess thatis going on here.

We need to get back to making moves that help us win in the long run. Why is it so hard for everyone to agree that the most important thing for us to have a GM that is willing to hire a coach that fits his vision and back that coach 100%%%%%%. The fact that our GM and coach are talking about who's choice it was to bring in a player is the problem. And it's been a problem here since Van Gundy was here. LB just happens to be the flavor of the month.

I don't understand how you guys can see the same episode over and over again and still think it's the first time. This cr-ap did not start when LB got here. JVG quit because of it.

It's so clear to me. IF we fire LB, we are not going to hire a coach that fits a long-term vision. Instead we will hire a coach that will help save us money. And if that coach fails after 40 games we will be once again looking to hire another coach and that coach will be in the exact same position. It's so sad. Everybody is making fun of us for this awful mismanagement and yet all the fans can do is say it's LB, Lenny, Don or HErbs fault. It's sickening.

[Edited by - Bippity10 on 05-18-2006 1:00 PM]
I just hope that people will like me
Andrew
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5/18/2006  12:58 PM
How many Isiah fans are still in his corner after reading this article?
PURE KNICKS LOVE
misterearl
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5/18/2006  3:21 PM
Andrew - Lenny was cool with me. I had the opportunity to even meet and work with him, but...

how many people are still Steinbrenner fans despite all the Managers he's fired?

Can you rememeber the Yankees of the seventies and the work it took to fix the franchise?

And that's WITHOUT a salary cap

once a knick always a knick
djsunyc
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5/18/2006  3:26 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Andrew - Lenny was cool with me. I had the opportunity to even meet and work with him, but...

how many people are still Steinbrenner fans despite all the Managers he's fired?

Can you rememeber the Yankees of the seventies and the work it took to fix the franchise?

And that's WITHOUT a salary cap

i'm too young to remember the 70's yankees but i do remember the 80's and 90's yankees.

george was forever trading youth for over the hill guys in the 80's like layden. he was hiring and firing managers left and right. he traded away jay buhner for ken phelps. and the team was a mess.

then, he actually took a step back and gave the reigns to buck and stick micheal. stick then rebuilt the farm system and cultivated from within. then he got rid of buck and watson and torre came here and surrounded the young guys with some solid veterans. no splashes, just solid players like tino, brosius, and o'neill. team won.

now he's doing the isiah and just going all out and getting the biggest $$$ players that teams are looking to dump or not looking to re-sign. and now the yankees, although comepetative b/c you're able to get better talent w/o the cap, have yet to win it since the first splash of giambi.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 05-18-2006 3:34 PM]
nyk4ever
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5/18/2006  3:32 PM
I've said it so many times but Madison Square Garden, Steve Mills and Isiah Thomas just have to go. It has to happen for this team to start heading in the right direction. Coach after coach the excuses on this board for Isiah Thomas remain the same. "It's not Isiah's fault, the coach didnt adapt to his players" so on and so forth. If Larry Brown can't get it done here than no one can under this management. Period. Plain and simple.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
misterearl
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5/18/2006  3:41 PM
nyk4ever - they HAVE to go?

To be replaced by who?

how about Bill Bradley and Kiki Vandeweghe?

Clinton and Colangelo?

Donald Trump's last season winner on The Apprentice and Jerry Krause?

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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5/18/2006  3:42 PM
djsunyc - if you missed the seventies, you missed the dreck that George inherited.

Changing the culture of a franchise is more than a notion.
once a knick always a knick
fishmike
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5/18/2006  4:17 PM
please, spare me the Yankee comparisons. Your right, its more than a notion, it starts with action and a plan. Isiah has proved over and over again incapable. Stop making bad trades for overpayed players with attitude problems. Stop trading draft picks. Get plays that fit a certain style of play and philosophy. Its really simple Earl... really simple.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TheSage
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5/18/2006  4:48 PM
I have been a Yankee hater since the 50's when they were consistently destroying my beloved Bums in the WS. That being said I never hated the yankee players or Steinbrenner. Was jealous of the fact that Steinbrenner opened his pocketbook to acquire talent but the difference between Steinbrenner and Dolan goes to team chemistry. In basketball its a necessity whereas in baseball its icing.
OldFan
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5/18/2006  5:09 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

yeah, I agree with that...he has a vision for the team and nobody believes him but Dolan. If a coach can come on board and simply accept that he may have a clue what he's doing, then we would be o.k. but everyone wants to put their stamp on the knicks and each stamp has nothing to do with making the knicks better, each stamp has to do with their own legacy.

why can't they just coach...lenny definitely coached while he was here...that team was only the best under isiah because lenny got the best out of them.

I'm still putting my money on this bunch being the best, they are by far the best on paper.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 05-18-2006 10:28 AM]


Wow. I really don't see what you see in this team. Best on Paper. Previous teams had some guys who could at least play a little defense. This teams defense makes KT and Shannon Anderson look like Russell and Gary Payton in there prime.

You need players who can actually play not guys who have potential if "they could just get get in shape, get there head on straight, learn three new skills, give a sht".
nyk4ever
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5/18/2006  5:57 PM
Posted by misterearl:

nyk4ever - they HAVE to go?

To be replaced by who?

how about Bill Bradley and Kiki Vandeweghe?

Clinton and Colangelo?

Donald Trump's last season winner on The Apprentice and Jerry Krause?

To be honest. Anyone is better then Mills and Isiah. If you can show me anything to prove that Isiah hasn't been one of the worst GM's in the history of the NBA then I'd like to see it.

Jerry Colangelo is looking for a job, Jim Dolan should already be writing the 'Pay to the Order of:' portion of the check.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 05-18-2006 5:57 PM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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