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Now do you see what I've been saying about Isiah since Day 1?
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McK1
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5/17/2006  9:37 AM
Posted by holfresh:

The Knicks has gotten to the finals without Brown before and will get there again without him...



[Edited by - holfresh on 05-17-2006 09:22 AM]

Isiah had nothing to do with that either so why should we trust him over a guy who in his career has made the Finals on both the collegiate and pro level, has been in 3 of the last 5 Finals and is in the HOF as a coach
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
AUTOADVERT
misterearl
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5/17/2006  9:41 AM
holfresh - it was another MSG power play gone bad.

In the tradition of Checketts vs Grunfeld

Holzman vs McGuire

Riley ve The Fax Machine

Consider the math. If LB wanted Kenyon Martin at $70MM and you consider the luxury tax payment on that salary, all Dolan had to do was weigh whatever other players Larry "wanted" against him coaching what was already on the payroll with better decorum, team-building and mutual respect.

Consider the $40MM buyout against the cost (in time and chedda) of revamping the roster once AGAIN to suit Brown's whims. Jalen Rose as a perfect example.

You lobby for him and he rides the pine. Sup with that?

"Coach the one you're with"
once a knick always a knick
djsunyc
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5/17/2006  9:50 AM
jerome james is going to be bought out this summer to the tune of $50 mil, $25 salary, $25 luxury. shandon was bought out to the tune of $19 mil. the salary cap was obliterated before he got here. i don't buy ANY financial reasoning for firing lb. that's total hogwash. you either want him to coach or you don't. piss or get off the pot.
holfresh
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5/17/2006  9:55 AM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by holfresh:

The Knicks has gotten to the finals without Brown before and will get there again without him...



[Edited by - holfresh on 05-17-2006 09:22 AM]

Isiah had nothing to do with that either so why should we trust him over a guy who in his career has made the Finals on both the collegiate and pro level, has been in 3 of the last 5 Finals and is in the HOF as a coach



Because Brown proved he can't be trusted by the stunt he pulled this past year...It's all about Brown in his world...I want someone here who knows it all about the team...He fought with every star on a team that he has coached for the spotlight...I'm sure he got a chubby when the Garden chanted his name after the 6 game win streak...What the hell is wrong with this man, is it a Napoleon complex?, you know what I don't really care...If he gain control, I just can't see things ending pleasently at the Garden.....
BasketballJones
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5/17/2006  10:01 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

jerome james is going to be bought out this summer to the tune of $50 mil, $25 salary, $25 luxury. shandon was bought out to the tune of $19 mil. the salary cap was obliterated before he got here. i don't buy ANY financial reasoning for firing lb. that's total hogwash. you either want him to coach or you don't. piss or get off the pot.


Nah, let him twist in the wind while he recovers from bladder surgery. Its the only classy thing to do.
https:// It's not so hard.
Bippity10
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5/17/2006  10:16 AM
Holfresh: Wait You're defending Isiah? Isiah lover!!!!!

Are you saying that winning 23 games under Isiah is somehow better than winning 23 games under another GM. You are a Zeke lover
I just hope that people will like me
holfresh
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5/17/2006  10:33 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

Holfresh: Wait You're defending Isiah? Isiah lover!!!!!

Are you saying that winning 23 games under Isiah is somehow better than winning 23 games under another GM. You are a Zeke lover



It's time for accountability unfortunately...Isiah needs to show us what he was thinking when he put this roster together...If he is able to turn this around then he gets to keep his job...My hate is equal when you don't perform...I have defended Isiah long enough, I agree with the youth movement as young players can be molded..So he gets my support... for now....

It's all coming to a head and you may finally get your wish...Dolan will eventually have to look in the mirror and see his erroneous ways...I hope he decides it's finally time to break this baby down and rebuild from scratch with former Knick basketball people...The madness has to stop sometime...This should be the final phase with Isiah on the bench..
BasketballJones
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5/17/2006  10:35 AM
Hopefully when Dolan sees the error of his ways, he'll do the honorable thing and turn over control of this franchise to someone who is competent.
https:// It's not so hard.
holfresh
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5/17/2006  10:36 AM
Posted by BasketballJones:

Hopefully when Dolan sees the error of his ways, he'll do the honorable thing and turn over control of this franchise to someone who is competent.


We can only hope, but MSG is such a cash cow, no way he gives that up without a coup...
OldFan
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5/17/2006  10:32 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by OldFan:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by bobs3304:

"getting young and athletic" isnt exactly a vision...



Everything takes time...No one can build a winner overnight..Brown would not hav been here long enough to build anything..What in last year made you thing Brown was on the right track to make a winner? What was it exactly?...



Brown understood that you need players to win. NOT potential players. You can hope some of your players are going to improve. You can't put together a team - where every player needs to vastly improve and expect to win. At the beginning of the year you had two fat, injured, out of shape centers who didn't know how to play the game, A PG who around the league (no it's not just Larry) is known as an over-rated head case. A totally inconsistent two guard, two old power forwards, an injured small forward with serious family issues on his mind, rookies and guys picked up off the scrap heap Larry took the job thinking he had some input into personal. What Isiah was able to obtain was two more headcases Francis and Jalen. (If you think those are Larry's players - you can't read between the lines. Larry was asking for defenders. He settled for the best garbage his incompetent GM could acquire.)
There are kids in HS and College that can run faster and jump higher and are younger then these guys - maybe IT should go out and get them because he has a vision - more like an hallucination. If you think this team is contending without a major over-haul - you're smoking the same stuff IT is.



Where is it written tha Brown came off the great mountain with coaching tablets in his hand...You guys act like Brown is the only person on earth capable to winning a Championship..You all act like Brown is the only one with vision to put a team together..News flash, he is a horrible GM...He has won one championship in 20 NBA years of coaching...The Knicks has gotten to the finals without Brown before and will get there again without him...My God, the shet he pulled this pass year was a crime and you guys want to look the other way...Well the owner can't and he shouldn't...This is the second time an owner has wanted him out of town in 10 months...Dolan will gladly pay him 40 mil to get lost...Think about that....Brown left this guy with no other choice....He attempted to gain the very thing he sorted for in Cleveland..He used the team as a pawn for his personal gains..It didn't work...In life when you attempt a coup and do not succeed, that means your arse...He has it coming...So please, it not about basketball anymore, time to move on!!!



[Edited by - holfresh on 05-17-2006 09:22 AM]


Do you read your own posts?

You asked a question. I gave you my answer.
Allanfan20
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5/17/2006  11:40 PM
Isiah Thomas wanted to get young and athletic. That's all fine and good, but that's pretty much ALL he did. Unfortunately, most of the players he brought in aren't good basketball players, or just a terrible mix. Yes, he brought in SOME great guys. However, one move contradicting the move before that, and repeating that cycle has been killing the franchise and Isiah hasn't even showed any signs of putting together an actual basketball team.

I don't want him making any moves for this team, after the draft, nor do I want him coaching the team. I just want him gone and I want a GM who's actually competant.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
holfresh
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5/18/2006  12:04 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Isiah Thomas wanted to get young and athletic. That's all fine and good, but that's pretty much ALL he did. Unfortunately, most of the players he brought in aren't good basketball players, or just a terrible mix. Yes, he brought in SOME great guys. However, one move contradicting the move before that, and repeating that cycle has been killing the franchise and Isiah hasn't even showed any signs of putting together an actual basketball team.

I don't want him making any moves for this team, after the draft, nor do I want him coaching the team. I just want him gone and I want a GM who's actually competant.



Ok...how long do you think it takes to build a championship team?
joec32033
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5/18/2006  12:08 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Allanfan20:

Isiah Thomas wanted to get young and athletic. That's all fine and good, but that's pretty much ALL he did. Unfortunately, most of the players he brought in aren't good basketball players, or just a terrible mix. Yes, he brought in SOME great guys. However, one move contradicting the move before that, and repeating that cycle has been killing the franchise and Isiah hasn't even showed any signs of putting together an actual basketball team.

I don't want him making any moves for this team, after the draft, nor do I want him coaching the team. I just want him gone and I want a GM who's actually competant.



Ok...how long do you think it takes to build a championship team?


I would say you should be competitve in the playoffs in 3 years, and the team should reach it's peak by year 4 and 5. Anything after that is unusual, IMO.
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nyk4ever
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5/18/2006  12:08 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Allanfan20:

Isiah Thomas wanted to get young and athletic. That's all fine and good, but that's pretty much ALL he did. Unfortunately, most of the players he brought in aren't good basketball players, or just a terrible mix. Yes, he brought in SOME great guys. However, one move contradicting the move before that, and repeating that cycle has been killing the franchise and Isiah hasn't even showed any signs of putting together an actual basketball team.

I don't want him making any moves for this team, after the draft, nor do I want him coaching the team. I just want him gone and I want a GM who's actually competant.



Ok...how long do you think it takes to build a championship team?


If thats the case how come Brown only gets one year.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
holfresh
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5/18/2006  12:14 AM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Allanfan20:

Isiah Thomas wanted to get young and athletic. That's all fine and good, but that's pretty much ALL he did. Unfortunately, most of the players he brought in aren't good basketball players, or just a terrible mix. Yes, he brought in SOME great guys. However, one move contradicting the move before that, and repeating that cycle has been killing the franchise and Isiah hasn't even showed any signs of putting together an actual basketball team.

I don't want him making any moves for this team, after the draft, nor do I want him coaching the team. I just want him gone and I want a GM who's actually competant.



Ok...how long do you think it takes to build a championship team?


I would say you should be competitve in the playoffs in 3 years, and the team should reach it's peak by year 4 and 5. Anything after that is unusual, IMO.



This is the first year this group have had a core of Curry, Marbs, Frye, Craw and Lee...How is it possible to draw an opinion of a GM after the first year of a new core group? It takes at least 2 yrs of playing together to know what we have...
djsunyc
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5/18/2006  12:17 AM
guys, we are so infected that we shouldn't even utter the word championship. what needs to happen is to accumulate a roster of guys that are willing to play hard all the time. then once we get a bunch of guys like that, and that culture is established, we can begin to increase the talent level. but until we're a place where all 15 guys go balls out, whether they get 1 min or 45 mins, knicks and championship shouldn't be used in the same sentence. this is going to be a long term process and will take more than 3 years.
holfresh
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5/18/2006  12:17 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Allanfan20:

Isiah Thomas wanted to get young and athletic. That's all fine and good, but that's pretty much ALL he did. Unfortunately, most of the players he brought in aren't good basketball players, or just a terrible mix. Yes, he brought in SOME great guys. However, one move contradicting the move before that, and repeating that cycle has been killing the franchise and Isiah hasn't even showed any signs of putting together an actual basketball team.

I don't want him making any moves for this team, after the draft, nor do I want him coaching the team. I just want him gone and I want a GM who's actually competant.



Ok...how long do you think it takes to build a championship team?


If thats the case how come Brown only gets one year.



He pulled a palace coup and it didn't work...I really believe this has nothing to do with Brown's ability to coach...It the extra baggage that were on display this year that currently has him in hot water...It certainly looks now like he tanked the year to gain control...Thats a no no when you are being paid 10 mil per...Stuff like that in unforgivable...I don't understand why you guys can't see this...
joec32033
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5/18/2006  12:18 AM
With all the coaching changes Zeke is pulling his year 3 as GM is year one when it comes to judging the players he brought in.

It is impossible to get a grasp on these players because there is no consistency on what is wanted/expected from them becase that is changing as the coach changes.
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joec32033
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5/18/2006  12:19 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

guys, we are so infected that we shouldn't even utter the word championship. what needs to happen is to accumulate a roster of guys that are willing to play hard all the time. then once we get a bunch of guys like that, and that culture is established, we can begin to increase the talent level. but until we're a place where all 15 guys go balls out, whether they get 1 min or 45 mins, knicks and championship shouldn't be used in the same sentence. this is going to be a long term process and will take more than 3 years.

I was talking normal sandard NBA time...Zeke time is sorta like dog years apparently.
~You can't run from who you are.~
djsunyc
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5/18/2006  12:21 AM
Posted by joec32033:

With all the coaching changes Zeke is pulling his year 3 as GM is year one when it comes to judging the players he brought in.

It is impossible to get a grasp on these players because there is no consistency on what is wanted/expected from them becase that is changing as the coach changes.

the one thing we do know is that many of the players brought in here are not worth keeping long term b/c they've quit on coaches, don't play hard all the time, or have conditioning problems. those guys need to go b/c they probably won't help us achieve anything of value anyway.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 05-18-2006 12:21 AM]
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Now do you see what I've been saying about Isiah since Day 1?
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