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lovespree
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4/25/2006  1:15 PM
The fact that Vince had a off year for a crummy team means nothing to me. Even medicore he was better than anything on the Knicks that year. And the funny part is we ended up trading all of the players Toronto wanted except for Crawford? And besides, Vince was an All-Start, an absolute superb talent - barring his bad stretch- I would take a chance on him getting back to that caliber than putting stock into Crawford who hadn't proven anything! Yeah, I remember that year Carter sucked. But I think most of that was because he wanted out of Toronto. And this is not a hypothetical situation Pharzeone. Like us getting T-Mac or J-Kidd, those guys were not even possibilities. Carter was and Isiah blew it. That's the difference.
NY KNICKS 4 EVER! Will we ever find players like Anthony Mason, Xavier McDaniels, Patrick Ewing again? I hope so.
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BlueSeats
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4/25/2006  1:29 PM
Yeah, i just wanted us to rebuild through the draft and eventual free agency, but even utilizing isiah's expiring contract+draft picks approach he could have done much better.

For instance, rahter than rushing into the Marbury deal and giving up expiring contracts+2 first rd picks+two Euro prospects he could have gotten Sheed for expirings+1 pick. That would have left him with picks and prospects for additional trades, like Carter. Without the Marbury deal we probably could have netted Sheed, Crawford and Carter.

Though admittedly Isiah's impetuosity and keen trade eye (/sarcasm) would have landed us Dampier before Carter.
Pharzeone
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4/25/2006  1:43 PM
Posted by lovespree:

The fact that Vince had a off year for a crummy team means nothing to me. Even medicore he was better than anything on the Knicks that year. And the funny part is we ended up trading all of the players Toronto wanted except for Crawford? And besides, Vince was an All-Start, an absolute superb talent - barring his bad stretch- I would take a chance on him getting back to that caliber than putting stock into Crawford who hadn't proven anything! Yeah, I remember that year Carter sucked. But I think most of that was because he wanted out of Toronto. And this is not a hypothetical situation Pharzeone. Like us getting T-Mac or J-Kidd, those guys were not even possibilities. Carter was and Isiah blew it. That's the difference.

So did 28 other GMs that's my point. So it's worthless to bring up. You can do that anything. I did it with T-Mac (btw, how do you know it was not possible because you say so), J-Kidd (once again how did you know) both got traded. Were those trades explored. If so why didn't other teams acquire those players? I can understand a draft second guessing but who you didn't get in a trade is really out there. Every team regrets making a trade or not making a trade.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
McK1
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4/25/2006  2:38 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

I can understand a draft second guessing but who you didn't get in a trade is really out there. Every team regrets making a trade or not making a trade.

not when the choice is JC or VC

Isiah isn't merely the director of scouting. If he was the realm of accountability could be focused as so.

he is President of Basketball Operations and General Manager.

Every personnel decision he has the final say so on. What trades are made and not/free agents signed and not are as crucial to who NY is as a team as who is drafted and who is passed on and all fall on Isiah's plate.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
holfresh
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4/25/2006  9:55 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by holfresh:




There is no doubt those are Brown trades...Last year Raptors offered JRose with Vince Carter and Isiah turned it down, he didn't want JRose, now you are telling me a year removed he wanted JRose straight up after he was so hard up for Vinsanity???

It's really difficult to believe that Isiah would trade Reezy for Franchise...Reezy said that Brown was behind the trade....



why do you keep making up this lie about turning down Rose?

Isiah offered Penny and Tim and a first for Rose and Carter

Toronto said we want Crawford. Out of that came Isiah's now infamous "Crawford is untoucahble"
brainfart. Isiah killed that deal not because he wouldn't take on Jalen but because he wouldn't include Crawford.

google "Crawford is untouchable"



There were many scenarios offered during time to gert the deal done..Not just you version

New York Knicks – It is no secret that Isiah Thomas covets Vince, and Vince covets New York, but the personal on both teams make any trade unlikely, unless a third team was involved. The Raptors would like to have the interior toughness of Kurt Thomas, Mike Sweetney, or Nazr Mohammed, but can’t offer any useful big men in return except for maybe Donyell Marshall (Chris Bosh is considered untouchable). Also, the Knicks do not want to add more to their league-leading highest payroll.


Vince Carter and Donyell Marshall FOR Allan Houston and Mike Sweetney



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-25-2006 9:57 PM]
McK1
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4/25/2006  10:01 PM
Posted by holfresh:





There were many scenarios offered during time to gert the deal done..Not just you version

New York Knicks – It is no secret that Isiah Thomas covets Vince, and Vince covets New York, but the personal on both teams make any trade unlikely, unless a third team was involved. The Raptors would like to have the interior toughness of Kurt Thomas, Mike Sweetney, or Nazr Mohammed, but can’t offer any useful big men in return except for maybe Donyell Marshall (Chris Bosh is considered untouchable). Also, the Knicks do not want to add more to their league-leading highest payroll.


Vince Carter and Donyell Marshall FOR Allan Houston and Mike Sweetney



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-25-2006 9:57 PM]

There is now growing speculation that the Raptors will be interested if G-Jamal Crawford, C-Nazr Mohammed, or F-Kurt Thomas is included. The one trump card that the Knicks hold is their willingness to also take Rose and his high salary of the Raptors hands, something that no other interested teams are prepared to do.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
holfresh
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4/26/2006  12:30 AM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by holfresh:





There were many scenarios offered during time to gert the deal done..Not just you version

New York Knicks – It is no secret that Isiah Thomas covets Vince, and Vince covets New York, but the personal on both teams make any trade unlikely, unless a third team was involved. The Raptors would like to have the interior toughness of Kurt Thomas, Mike Sweetney, or Nazr Mohammed, but can’t offer any useful big men in return except for maybe Donyell Marshall (Chris Bosh is considered untouchable). Also, the Knicks do not want to add more to their league-leading highest payroll.


Vince Carter and Donyell Marshall FOR Allan Houston and Mike Sweetney



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-25-2006 9:57 PM]

There is now growing speculation that the Raptors will be interested if G-Jamal Crawford, C-Nazr Mohammed, or F-Kurt Thomas is included. The one trump card that the Knicks hold is their willingness to also take Rose and his high salary of the Raptors hands, something that no other interested teams are prepared to do.



I almost sure that was the scenario but for the life of me I cannot locate anything on the internet to support my case... But I havent given up....
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