I don't think you can just swing for the fences though. You have to bring in winning players and build a culture in which you bring up your draft picks and atract major FA's.

You can't just skip over being .500 to being a .600 team with a shot at the finals.

You can't just skip over being .500 to being a .600 team with a shot at the finals.

I agree, that's why I think Brown should have coached to win this year.

oohah

i also agree. unless brown had another agenda, at 65 teaching his system while showing winning form should've have been the way to start.....that did'nt happen.

next year will be harder, expectations will be higher

Posted by EnySpree:

I don't get this arguement. Bring in winning players to be mediocre? Wtf? Larry brown is gonna be 66 soon.

I'm sick of the bull aleady. Larry brown is not the god of basketball. He wants a certain type of player. That's all fine and dandy but if you are talking about theo ratliff then you need to be hit in the chest with a sledge hammer. Larry doesn't like any of the players. So the knicks now have to trade the whole team? For winning role players? Who are they playing roles for?

None of this **** makes sense. Yeah the knicks won 20 and change, but the guys on this team are not retards. The mediocre level that people want is aleady here....its just that Larry never have them a fighting chance.

This is so stupid its in believable.

Change with the roster should be made but so should the coach. Makes no sense that Larry hates the guys playing for him. If things were that simple all the coaches in the league would get to do what brown has gotten away with. This is bull****!

i think if lb had a roster of guys that just listened and did what was told, regardless of the results, he would be happy. but since this year was such a challenge getting everybody "on the same page" despite what lb and steph said in their BS exit interviews, we have to make a choice of who should stay, lb or 1/2 the players. i don't think anybody can argue with that. agree or disagree with his methods or how he coached this year, if the players were all good soldiers, we wouldn't have had all this media BS.

so the question now becomes what do we do? is a 66 year old coach the right guy for us? are the players the right players to really build a team with? the answer could be NO to both questions. and in fact, i know for sure, that the answer is NO to the 2nd question.

this has to start with isiah. we need to remove him and bring in another guy with NO ties and let that person decide who stays and who doesn't. that's the ONLY resolution to this dilemma b/c if lb's gone, and the players stay, we are going to perpetuate the mediocrity that's been widely accepted. is mediocrity better than 23-59? imho, no. to me, it's the same thing but i'm in the minority.

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by EnySpree:

I don't get this arguement. Bring in winning players to be mediocre? Wtf? Larry brown is gonna be 66 soon.

I'm sick of the bull aleady. Larry brown is not the god of basketball. He wants a certain type of player. That's all fine and dandy but if you are talking about theo ratliff then you need to be hit in the chest with a sledge hammer. Larry doesn't like any of the players. So the knicks now have to trade the whole team? For winning role players? Who are they playing roles for?

None of this **** makes sense. Yeah the knicks won 20 and change, but the guys on this team are not retards. The mediocre level that people want is aleady here....its just that Larry never have them a fighting chance.

This is so stupid its in believable.

Change with the roster should be made but so should the coach. Makes no sense that Larry hates the guys playing for him. If things were that simple all the coaches in the league would get to do what brown has gotten away with. This is bull****!

so the question now becomes what do we do? is a 66 year old coach the right guy for us? are the players the right players to really build a team with? the answer could be NO to both questions. and in fact, i know for sure, that the answer is NO to the 2nd question.

this has to start with isiah. we need to remove him and bring in another guy with NO ties and let that person decide who stays and who doesn't. that's the ONLY resolution to this dilemma b/c if lb's gone, and the players stay, we are going to perpetuate the mediocrity that's been widely accepted.

Removing Isiah??? djsunyc, you know that's going to be very hard to do because the owner is an idiot!! Knicks do need to bring in a savvy, dilligent G.M. that won't accept mediocrity but the dum owner fell for Ass iah's con strategy which is killing this team.

This goes back to the owner who listened to Mills in hiring an incompetent Ass iah Thomas.. SOmehow, someone is gonna have to tell the owner, "you have to get someone else in here and fire Ass iah..

so far, if you're talking about a franchise player right now on the knicks, it's possible that person might be Frye. But with Larry Brown, you can win with 12 good players and not one have to be the franchise player..

Look @ the detriot pistons, they all are good players but none of them is considered a franchise star.. Unless you want to consider tayshaun prince, the team's franchise star..

LB's best teams had franchise type talent or at least big stars...the Pistons were Carlisle's team and they were the first such team that LB coached, and he did not have anything to do with putting them together.

Players from LB's best teams: Allen Iverson, Reggie Miller, David Robinson, Buck Williams, David Thompson, Dan Issel, Billy Cunningham.

If it were up to LB, Chauncey Billups and Allen Iverson would be Bucks or something.

You must continue to obtain role players for cheap $$ and eventually somewhere down the line, you'll get an opportunity in the near future to obtain that franchise player..

From your typwriter to God's LCD screen.

oohah

Brown's got to go...If you are telling me we are trading half the roster for this 66 year old coach who we have no idea will last out the season..It's just nuts...Not worth all the hoopla....wasn't worth it the past season and not we are doing it next...good luck when we have a roster of hard working plaers with no skills and no one to coach them...Good Luck...

Posted by oohah:

larry Brown typed players who might be available this offseason??

guards/small forwards: andre miller, C. duhorn, mike james, speedy claxton, D.fisher, eddie jones, raja bell, trenton hassell, rasual butler, bonzi wells, ruben patterson, eric snow(i think he's done )


froncourt players: ratliffe, reggie Evans, Jared Jeffries, kenny thomas, cliff robinson, Carlos boozer, Dalembert and kenyon martin

Most of these guys are either rugged, hardnose, rebound, play the right way and don't need the ball to dominate...

We could get every one of those players and that would maybe make the Knicks a second round team. Nobody on that roster is "the piece" around which champinship teams are built. That's what the Knicks need, a franchise player. Everything else is a bandage.

oohah

who is the piece on the Pistons?

For the most part I agree, you need a franchise player, but our draft is shot for the next few years, we have no cap space and our trading assets arent exactly demanding a king's ranson. Creating a team that plays hard every night, improving the losing culture around here and actually being able to win a playoff series looks like a good start to me

This guys has demoralized the entire team by attacking them personally and questioning their intelligence openly and you think this is a positive cultural that this organization needs....Even if Brown changes half the roster, he has planted the seed of contempt in this organization. No one will ever have any respect for Brown after his antics this past year....I don't understand why you think this guy can change this culture at this point...I really do agree it needs to be changed but Brown has done too much damage to be the one to change it...



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-24-2006 1:58 PM]

Posted by EnySpree:

Something needs to be done. If its fire isiah then fine. But the guy that comes in better fire brown too.

I think if that were to happen for real the new GM should bring in a coach that is genuine like doc rivers to use what's here and work with the GM so they can add and subtract the right mix of guys.

Kind of what should have happened in the first place.

Eny, I liked Doc Rivers a lot. He did a great job coaching Atkins, Ben Wallace, Daryll Armstrong, Bo Outlaw, Doleac, Monty Williams and a rookie Corey Maggette to .500 and may have one coach of the year. It was a great coaching job. Couple years later for whatever reason TMac quit on him en route to a 61 loss season. Why do you think if Marbury, Francis, Mo Taylor arent happy in their roles they will quit? Why would these guys play hard defense for Doc but not for Herb, Lenny or Larry? Whats Doc River's going to do? Lenny went out of his way to not hurt guy's feelings. They still went 2-15 and stopped playing hard.

Barkley was right (god forbid). Marbury and Francis have been about a long time and are exactly the same players.

Posted by fishmike:

Any player that was demoralized by what LB said should be sent packing anyway. I want guys that dont make excuses, and dont need a good reason to play hard. It doesnt matter who coaches. They played like crap for Herb, they played like crap for Lenny. They played like crap for Larry. Only difference? Larry said "you played like crap."

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

They played .500 for Lenny...