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McK1
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4/20/2006  1:23 AM
Posted by crzymdups:


edit: and clearly, I was responding to an assertion that Ariza had piled up meaningless numbers in losses. Sure, he piled up the numbers in meaningless wins, but that squad got 16 wins in 6 weeks. we got 16 wins in 6 months.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 04-20-2006 12:13 AM]

13 minutes 4 pts 3 rebs on 39% shooting are numbers to rave about? and this was in his make an impression process to see if they want to keep him
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
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crzymdups
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4/20/2006  1:25 AM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by crzymdups:


edit: and clearly, I was responding to an assertion that Ariza had piled up meaningless numbers in losses. Sure, he piled up the numbers in meaningless wins, but that squad got 16 wins in 6 weeks. we got 16 wins in 6 months.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 04-20-2006 12:13 AM]


13 minutes 4 pts 3 rebs on 39% shooting are numbers to rave about? and this was in his make an impression process to see if they want to keep him

I thought we all agreed we needed less stats guys and more guys who played hard and defended? oh well.
¿ △ ?
BlueSeats
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4/20/2006  2:16 AM
I like ariza, but I liked him better last year when i though he had a great attitude, this year I'm less sure. He seems in too much of a hurry, maybe a bit uppity. he should have stayed longer in college, he came out too raw, and I think he read too may message boards with folks thinking he should start this year. I didn't like a 20 yr old second round pick complaining about losing the starting spot so early in the year. And it was reported he was getting mouthy even when sent to the bench for a breather.

lastly, i think we did better than him in Woods. Even Barnes outplayed him.

I like Ariza but he's not a maker or breaker.
holfresh
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4/20/2006  5:18 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:

I like ariza, but I liked him better last year when i though he had a great attitude, this year I'm less sure. He seems in too much of a hurry, maybe a bit uppity. he should have stayed longer in college, he came out too raw, and I think he read too may message boards with folks thinking he should start this year. I didn't like a 20 yr old second round pick complaining about losing the starting spot so early in the year. And it was reported he was getting mouthy even when sent to the bench for a breather.

lastly, i think we did better than him in Woods. Even Barnes outplayed him.

I like Ariza but he's not a maker or breaker.


Ariza is a really good kid...The only reason you have problems wiht Reezy is because of the spat with Brown...I mean come on...Reezy is a bad guy now because he wants to play more and Brown calls him delusional....He was the only player on the roster that could have been considered a Brown type player...Played defense and didn't need the ball to be successful...And he was 20 and learning...This is one trade I think Larry or we Knick fans will regret..See Larry Hughes..
gunsnewing
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4/20/2006  6:08 AM
Ariza sucks and he sucked way before Larry Brown ever got here!
Silverfuel
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4/20/2006  6:20 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

Ariza sucks and he sucked way before Larry Brown ever got here!
WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING UP SO EARLY? Its 6:08AM Guns!! Did you just walk in the door or something?
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
gunsnewing
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4/20/2006  6:24 AM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by gunsnewing:

Ariza sucks and he sucked way before Larry Brown ever got here!
WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING UP SO EARLY? Its 6:08AM Guns!! Did you just walk in the door or something?

haha. I was in bed by 10 lastnight
McK1
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4/20/2006  8:03 AM
Larry Hughes is overrated

I thought we all agreed we needed less stats guys and more guys who played hard and defended? oh well.

we do. Ariza apparently was offended when Brown told him to stop shooting. He doesn't fully qualify for the argument you're attempting to make.

Trev was a nice prospect blown up to King Kong status because mostly everyone hated Tim Thomas. He has minimal fundamental skills.

And on D he was more gambler than lock down defender



the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Allanfan20
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4/20/2006  8:41 AM
Posted by rvhoss:

yep, and ariza is only 20. it's not that he can't hit a shot, he just can't do it in the NBA. he hits his free throws.

Are you joking me?
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
TMS
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4/20/2006  10:09 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by WOODMANnYk:

oh c'mon.. i never get thrilled over a player whose stats get blowned up but still losing.. if trhey were winning then we can talk..

Magic just won 8 in a row.

edit: they're 16-4 with Ariza playing. ah well.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 04-19-2006 11:34 PM]

I really hope you're not insinuating that Ariza is the reason they're 16-4 in their last 20.

Give me a break about Ariza. I can't believe how many people are getting worked up over the last game of the year in what amounted to an exhibition. Getting worked up about Ariza's numbers tonight is tantamount to being excited about the Knicks beating the Nets. Its moronic.

agreed... but that's the nature of alot of people on this board... they always get overly excited about any young player who shows even a glimpse of future potential... it's not the first time i've seen people rush to overhype young players on the Knicks after a single showing, or a few good games (John Wallace, Lavor Postell, Mike Sweetney, Frank Williams)

personally, i much prefer Q Woods to Trevor Ariza, but that's just me.

[Edited by - TMS on 04-20-2006 10:10 AM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Allanfan20
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4/20/2006  11:34 AM
I actually liked and STILL like Ariza over Woods, but point is, Ariza is gone. People who said he's the next Shawn Marion were assinine and probably on Acid too. What he prolly is, is just real good player, bringing energy to the team, play good defense, mixes well with the offense b/c he's a good passer, and he needs to improve his ball handling and shooting. When he does, you'll see a nice and much improved basketball player, but until then, he's an inconsistent 15 mpg bench player.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Pharzeone
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4/20/2006  12:03 PM
Point is that Brown will not stop at Ariza, say your goodbyes to anybody that young and needs to develop. It is pointless to say any different when the coach tells you that the Knicks (he now speaks for the team about how they should be run versus refers to them when they lose) are not interested in acquiring rookies. Problem is that everyone has different agendas, Thomas, Brown and fans. Brown wants to win right now, not tomorrow. He doesn't care about developing players never has, it's not in his nature. When you know that you will not stick around until the end of your contract why would care if a player develops?

btw, I love how fans say that they are willing to rebuild but also knock Ariza for him being undevelop.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
islesfan
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4/20/2006  1:02 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

btw, I love how fans say that they are willing to rebuild but also knock Ariza for him being undevelop.

1. We weren't really rebuilding.

2. Ariza showed ZERO improvement on his basketball skills (i.e. shooting, dribbling, passing) from his rookie year.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bippity10
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4/20/2006  1:28 PM
The fact that a 19 year old kid with no discernible skill was arguing with a coach that just made it to two straight NBA finals was reason enough to trade him. Stats mean nothing(especially since his numbers haven't changed much since he left). We need an attitude change in NY
I just hope that people will like me
holfresh
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4/20/2006  1:30 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

Point is that Brown will not stop at Ariza, say your goodbyes to anybody that young and needs to develop. It is pointless to say any different when the coach tells you that the Knicks (he now speaks for the team about how they should be run versus refers to them when they lose) are not interested in acquiring rookies. Problem is that everyone has different agendas, Thomas, Brown and fans. Brown wants to win right now, not tomorrow. He doesn't care about developing players never has, it's not in his nature. When you know that you will not stick around until the end of your contract why would care if a player develops?

btw, I love how fans say that they are willing to rebuild but also knock Ariza for him being undevelop.


Totally agree with you...Think we can kiss the young guys goodbye...I reaaly lik Reezy and wanted to see him grow here but can't happen now....At least in a bad season like this one you can look at the kids and have hope....If we trade the kids and watch this team win 30 games again next seaseon...Whats really the point...This entire season will result in Larry gaining control...He will bring vets here and I really can't see them getting much better with all the changes that are planned...I guess we wait to ride out Isiah, Larry and Steph to start all over again....What a huge disappointment all around....
OldFan
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4/20/2006  6:29 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

[quote]Posted by OldFan:

2005-06 NY 36 19.7 1.7 4.1 41.8 0.0 0.1 33.3 1.2 2.1 54.6 1.4 2.4 3.8 1.3 1.3 1.2 0.3 2.2 4.6
2005-06 ORL 20 13.0 1.4 3.4 39.7 0.0 0.1 0.0 1.6 2.3 71.1 1.2 2.3 3.5 0.7 0.8 0.6 0.1 1.0 4.3

[/qu

also, you'll note that Ariza is putting up the same numbers in about 6 minutes less per game, which means he is playing far better in Orlando, given how few minutes he plays.



also, when you factor in tonight's numbers Ariza's number are better across the board in Orlando this season than they were in NY, despite playing only 14mpg. hey, I just feel like we're rebuilding and it was idiotic to ostracize a defender like Ariza.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 04-19-2006 11:22 PM]

If Ariza is such a "defender" and is playing so much better in "less time" - why is he getting even less time on another lousey team?

PS - His rebounds per minute are up, His steals are down, his blocks are down, his shooting % is down, his assists are down, he's taking more shots per minute to maintain his scoring avg. - He's not playing any better in Orlando then he was here.
Pharzeone
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4/20/2006  6:50 PM
The only stat I need to know about is Ariza 10 points, 7 rebounds, 2 assists against the Knicks where his counterpart Mr. Q puts up 0 points, 1 rebound, 0 assist with more minutes and starting. And if you watch Orlando broadcast on NBA League Pass, you know that the Magic really don't want to play Ariza anymore to get him on the cheap. Who do you think will be harder to keep, Woods, Butler or Ariza. Just looking at some of this stuff, the Knicks will be hard press to try and reup their contracts. Too much showcasing.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
nixluva
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4/20/2006  7:01 PM
Its just more of the same. Its funny how Isaiah gets killed for the team he built, but no one seems to notice that he actually tried to make this team younger and sort of rebuild. At least as much as we can with our cap situation. we have Frye, Lee, Nate, Butler, Woods, Q, Jamal and Curry and all of them are 26 or younger. We should still have Ariza and that would have been 9 players who are still young enough to mold. Mo and Jalen are gone soon and the likelyhood of Francis being moved is also high. LB is the one who wanted to add more vets and use more vets. So to me he's actually working against our interests to some degree. We should be looking for vets who aren't 30 and older. Speedy Claxton is 28 and i'd have no problem with him, but please no more talk of Eric Snow.
oohah
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4/20/2006  7:28 PM
I think Ariza will be a pretty decent player by the time he is Eddie Curry's age.

Whether or not one agrees about Ariza's abilitiy or attitude, he was in the mold of what Isiah said his philosophy was: To get young, athletic, players. Most of us were down with that philosophy, tired of the mediocre, boring, unathletic squads fielded in the early 2000's. We were ready for some excitement and entertainment.

It sure looks like we are looking at mediocre, boring, unathletic teams for a couple of years.

Unless the Knicks land a superstar. Keep you fingers crossed, but don't hold your breath.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
McK1
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4/20/2006  7:40 PM
Posted by oohah:

I think Ariza will be a pretty decent player by the time he is Eddie Curry's age.

Whether or not one agrees about Ariza's abilitiy or attitude, he was in the mold of what Isiah said his philosophy was: To get young, athletic, players. Most of us were down with that philosophy, tired of the mediocre, boring, unathletic squads fielded in the early 2000's. We were ready for some excitement and entertainment.

It sure looks like we are looking at mediocre, boring, unathletic teams for a couple of years.

Unless the Knicks land a superstar. Keep you fingers crossed, but don't hold your breath.

oohah

who isn't young and athletic nowadays? guys are trying to make it seem like its some special case for players in the NBA or coming.

Watching someone out there actually using the one muscle that can't be honed with free weights is the unicorn

[Edited by - McK1 on 04-20-2006 7:41 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
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