[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Not 1 player has flourished under LB, Not 1!!!
Author Thread
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
4/18/2006  12:25 PM
marbury went on stephen a smith and re-iterated his status as the "best pg" in the league. a few games later, they played the lakers where steph felt his game was castrated after seeing kobe do his thing. in the post game he says "i want to be the sg." lb then responds saying something like "but i thought you were the best pg?" that was the first time steph started questioning and demanding stuff.

last year, he neither endorsed or disapproved of herb as the coach. he said hiring lb was a "no-brainer" but he also said the whole stats and winning thing.

dude never really bought in. it was like "ok, i'll try it your way, but...." and flip saunders alluded to it. he said steph will take some time buying in, but once he does, it's all gravy. he never bought in and he took everything lb said as personal. it's on him more than anybody else.
AUTOADVERT
DarkKnicks
Posts: 21064
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/29/2005
Member: #882
Spain
4/18/2006  1:25 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by DarkKnicks:
Posted by fishmike:

Marbury has openly questioned the coach since training camp. That was BEFORE Larry said anything in the press.
This is not true.
pretty sure it is... Bip consolidated some of the quotes, but did or didnt Marbury say he expected his #s to go down, and didnt care about stats so long as they were winning? And so long as they are winning there wont be problems? Didnt Marbury make "suggestions" during camp the press? Stuff like him playing shooting guard? Maybe my memory isnt serving me here (wouldnt be the first time). Correct me if I am wrong.
This is not to question the coach to me. And the SG thing was said JUST by Larry, not Marbs.
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
4/18/2006  1:27 PM
Posted by DarkKnicks:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by DarkKnicks:
Posted by fishmike:

Marbury has openly questioned the coach since training camp. That was BEFORE Larry said anything in the press.
This is not true.
pretty sure it is... Bip consolidated some of the quotes, but did or didnt Marbury say he expected his #s to go down, and didnt care about stats so long as they were winning? And so long as they are winning there wont be problems? Didnt Marbury make "suggestions" during camp the press? Stuff like him playing shooting guard? Maybe my memory isnt serving me here (wouldnt be the first time). Correct me if I am wrong.
This is not to question the coach to me. And the SG thing was said JUST by Larry, not Marbs.

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/ESPNSports/story?id=1326176
ESPN.com news services

Nov. 18 Stephon Marbury would like to be the Knicks' version of Allen Iverson. He's starting to get his wish in one respect: His relationship with coach Larry Brown is beginning to mirror the rocky bond Brown had with A.I. when he coached the 76ers.

Marbury has asked to move from point guard to shooting guard, the New York Daily News reported, and Brown isn't receptive to the request right now.

"He told me he wanted to play off guard," Brown was quoted as saying in the newspaper. "Well, it's not that easy right now. What, are we going to invent a point guard?

"He told me he wanted to play like the way I used Allen [in Philadelphia]. Well, I had Eric Snow, Larry Hughes, Aaron McKie. It's a little different now."

Marbury's request came after he scored four points in a loss against the Los Angeles Lakers in which Kobe Bryant scored 42 points.

"I'm not used to playing in a game where I'm not attacking the person that's going at me," Marbury told the Daily News.

"I know how I play, [Brown] knows how I play. If he wants me to play a different way — which I am playing a total different way — if that's what it's going to take to win, I'm down for it. If we lose, I'm not going to be happy with it. I don't feel like I contributed. I feel like I was just out there. If we can go to the NBA Finals and I play like that I can deal with that … all day."

Brown shot back at his outspoken star.

"I'm not disappointed in a guy feeling like he can contribute more. [But] I didn't hear that after the Utah game [in which Marbury scored just 10 points.] He had 2-for-9 [against Los Angeles]. What if he goes 5-for-9? We win the game."

Marbury better get used to Brown's system as the coach said he has no plans of switching gears.

"Did we win the other way?" Brown told the newspaper. "So let's get real here. We're trying to get better."
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
4/18/2006  1:29 PM
Posted by fishmike:

dj.. well thought out and I agree. You have a good command of the English language.

I enjoyed that post as well..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
DarkKnicks
Posts: 21064
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/29/2005
Member: #882
Spain
4/18/2006  1:29 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by DarkKnicks:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by DarkKnicks:
Posted by fishmike:

Marbury has openly questioned the coach since training camp. That was BEFORE Larry said anything in the press.
This is not true.
pretty sure it is... Bip consolidated some of the quotes, but did or didnt Marbury say he expected his #s to go down, and didnt care about stats so long as they were winning? And so long as they are winning there wont be problems? Didnt Marbury make "suggestions" during camp the press? Stuff like him playing shooting guard? Maybe my memory isnt serving me here (wouldnt be the first time). Correct me if I am wrong.
This is not to question the coach to me. And the SG thing was said JUST by Larry, not Marbs.

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/ESPNSports/story?id=1326176
ESPN.com news services

Nov. 18 Stephon Marbury would like to be the Knicks' version of Allen Iverson. He's starting to get his wish in one respect: His relationship with coach Larry Brown is beginning to mirror the rocky bond Brown had with A.I. when he coached the 76ers.

Marbury has asked to move from point guard to shooting guard, the New York Daily News reported, and Brown isn't receptive to the request right now.

"He told me he wanted to play off guard," Brown was quoted as saying in the newspaper. "Well, it's not that easy right now. What, are we going to invent a point guard?

"He told me he wanted to play like the way I used Allen [in Philadelphia]. Well, I had Eric Snow, Larry Hughes, Aaron McKie. It's a little different now."

Marbury's request came after he scored four points in a loss against the Los Angeles Lakers in which Kobe Bryant scored 42 points.

"I'm not used to playing in a game where I'm not attacking the person that's going at me," Marbury told the Daily News.

"I know how I play, [Brown] knows how I play. If he wants me to play a different way — which I am playing a total different way — if that's what it's going to take to win, I'm down for it. If we lose, I'm not going to be happy with it. I don't feel like I contributed. I feel like I was just out there. If we can go to the NBA Finals and I play like that I can deal with that … all day."

Brown shot back at his outspoken star.

"I'm not disappointed in a guy feeling like he can contribute more. [But] I didn't hear that after the Utah game [in which Marbury scored just 10 points.] He had 2-for-9 [against Los Angeles]. What if he goes 5-for-9? We win the game."

Marbury better get used to Brown's system as the coach said he has no plans of switching gears.

"Did we win the other way?" Brown told the newspaper. "So let's get real here. We're trying to get better."
Sorry, but this is stupid, you all know that Marbury said when Larry was hired, (not in November) that Larry had told him at the Olimpics that he wanted him to play SG and I'll repeat it: you ALL know this.
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
4/18/2006  1:32 PM
Marbury Trying to Find His Game
By HOWARD BECK

DENVER, Nov. 17 - Stephon Marbury does not have a championship ring, an N.B.A. finals appearance or, for that matter, a simple playoff series victory. For 10 pro seasons, Marbury's greatness has instead been defined by the box scores.

He has averaged better than 20 points and 8 assists a game in his career, numbers matched in league annals only by the Hall of Famer Oscar Robertson.

But for the first time in Marbury's career, his defining trait has been stripped away, and what remains is a confused, frustrated player struggling to retain his identity and still please his demanding new coach.

That kind of tension figured to be a subtext to the Knicks' season since the day Larry Brown was hired in July, and it has come to a head.

After Wednesday night's 97-92 loss to the Los Angeles Lakers, Marbury asked Brown to move him to shooting guard. Brown said he could not do so because the Knicks have no other reliable point guards.

The conflict could push the Knicks to trade for a veteran point guard and is sure to fuel trade rumors involving Marbury. In the meantime, it will be a daily point of concern for the Knicks, who have lost six of their first eight games while trying to sort out roles.

Brown and Marbury are not entirely at odds, but they are not entirely on the same page, either. That much is already clear.

In Wednesday's loss, Marbury had 10 assists but just 4 points. He was precisely the facilitator that Brown wanted, but Marbury was deflated by his scoring total, coupled with the loss.

"I'm not playing the way how I normally play," Marbury, sounding exasperated, said Thursday. "And I know that I could do way more than what I'm doing. I know last night I got 10 assists, and it felt like that was the hardest 10 assists I ever got."

In a clear indication of how differently they view the matter, Brown praised Marbury's performance as a play-maker in that game. He sounded incredulous at Marbury's remark that he was O.K. with the new role as long as the Knicks were winning.

"When have we won here? Did we win the other way?" Brown said, referring to Marbury's record as a scoring-first point guard. "So let's get real here. We're trying to get better. We're trying to figure out a way to win games.

"I talked to him last night, he told me he wanted to play off-guard. It's not that easy right now. What, are we going to invent a point guard? I'm just trying to figure out ways to help guys. But this is a work in progress."

The Knicks' only other options at point guard are Jamal Crawford and Nate Robinson, both of whom are regarded as hybrid guards with limited play-making abilities. So Brown's challenge is to keep Marbury happy and productive and willing to adapt his game.

It has been the priority since Brown was hired. Brown likes his point guards in the traditional role - running the offense, calling plays on the court and helping teammates get easy baskets. Marbury is accustomed to having more freedom to score.

Penny Hardaway, who has played with Marbury for four-plus seasons in Phoenix and New York, said Brown was asking Marbury to do things that no coach had asked of him.

"Coach Brown might want us to run a play every time down, and with Steph's creativity, he probably thinks that, 'Hey, I want to go and blow by this guy whenever he pressures me,' " Hardaway said last week. "And then Coach Brown wants him to stand there like a point guard and run the play and make everybody else around be involved. That's probably more difficult for him, because in the past, pretty much the offense was done through Stephon."

Now, Marbury is often expected to pass the ball early in the halfcourt set and score only when the ball happens to return to him. Still, Brown recognizes how critical Marbury's scoring is to the Knicks. Asked if they could win with Marbury scoring just 4 points, Brown said, "I doubt it."

"I'm not discouraged at all," Brown said. "I'm going to get this thing worked out."

Brown said Marbury had ample scoring opportunities Wednesday.

"We ran 25 pick-and-rolls. How many more can you run?" Brown said. "You go 2 for 9 and you're a scorer, you figure out ways to get more shots."

Brown said he wanted Marbury to take "15 to 20 good shots a game," and he expected him to score at the foul line.

"How many free throws did he shoot last night? Zero," Brown said. He also faulted Marbury for not being aggressive late in the game, a product perhaps of Marbury's attempt to be a pass-first guard.

"I shouldn't have to go on the court and decide where I'm going to be aggressive," Marbury said. "I should be able to be aggressive the whole time I'm on the court."

A clash in styles and priorities is almost a given with Brown and his point guards. He clashed with Allen Iverson in Philadelphia and ultimately moved him to shooting guard. He wrestled at times with Chauncey Billups in Detroit. But Brown forged an understanding with both players, taking Iverson to the finals in 2001 and Billups to the championship in 2004.

Fundamentally, Marbury has a difficult task. He must get teammates involved first, but he also is the team's best scorer. It is a delicate balancing act, one that Kobe Bryant of the Lakers has been trying to master during his 10 years in the league.

"I think he's playing a more structured game right now," Bryant said Wednesday night. "I think he's trying to understand the flow of the game, instead of just going out there and being a gunslinger, which is something that he was very good at. It's a process, where Larry's trying to elevate his game and get it to the next level. Because you can be just as effective scoring points, but also you can pick your spots. It's tough, though, man."

While Marbury tries to find a comfort zone, his numbers are sinking. His scoring average, 15.3 points, is 5 below his career mark, and his assists average of 5.8 a game is also down, from 8.2.

"I think it's important for the city of New York to be patient, because it's going to pay off," Bryant said.

Teammates are encouraged by Marbury's willingness so far to bend to Brown's style. Marbury, the 28-year-old point guard, and Brown, the 65-year-old coach, are said to have a good rapport in practices and huddles.

"It's encouraging to see him and Larry, they talk," Malik Rose said.

Isiah Thomas, the team president, praised Marbury's steady growth before Wednesday's game. He cited Marbury's play in victories over Sacramento and Utah, calling them "probably the two best games that I've seen him play, in terms of understanding the position."

Thomas later added, "Finding the right time to score the 25 or score the 10 is really probably the most difficult thing that a guy who has talent has to do. I fought that battle throughout my whole career."

Despite his dejected tone and his frustration, Marbury said he was committed to adapting to Brown's way - as long as victories are attached.

"If we lose, of course I'm not going to be happy playing like that," Marbury said. But if he scores 4 points and the Knicks win? "Oh, I wouldn't think twice about it," he said. "Not at all. If we can go to the N.B.A. finals and I play like that, I can deal with that. All day."
DarkKnicks
Posts: 21064
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/29/2005
Member: #882
Spain
4/18/2006  1:39 PM
Dj, read above
Killa4luv
Posts: 27769
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
4/18/2006  4:59 PM
There are more lies in this thread than anything, but again, you guys see what you want to see.

LB told the press Steph asked to move to the 2, not Steph. Steph respoded by saying that he had made that request months ago and that it was just now reported [incidentally because LB opened his big fat mouth] and the press made a big deal about it. He said he went in and asked, LB said no, and that was that, but the press, and guys like DJ, who love the drama, ran with it.

LB was the one talking from day one, not steph. I will not let you guys make up facts.

[Edited by - killa4luv on 04-18-2006 5:01 PM]
Killa4luv
Posts: 27769
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
4/18/2006  5:02 PM
Posted by DarkKnicks:[br
Sorry, but this is stupid, you all know that Marbury said when Larry was hired, (not in November) that Larry had told him at the Olimpics that he wanted him to play SG and I'll repeat it: you ALL know this.
Some people can't be bothered with little things like facts. Blinded by hate.

crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
4/18/2006  5:14 PM
Marbury sucks. Brown sucks. Isiah sucks. the three part ****tail is toxic.
¿ △ ?
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
4/18/2006  5:29 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

There are more lies in this thread than anything, but again, you guys see what you want to see.

LB told the press Steph asked to move to the 2, not Steph. Steph respoded by saying that he had made that request months ago and that it was just now reported [incidentally because LB opened his big fat mouth] and the press made a big deal about it. He said he went in and asked, LB said no, and that was that, but the press, and guys like DJ, who love the drama, ran with it.

LB was the one talking from day one, not steph. I will not let you guys make up facts.

drama is all this year has been about. drama is why the team is 22-59. this knicks this year is ALL DRAMA. killa, you're blinded by the drama.
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
4/18/2006  6:25 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

whether it's lb, or riley, or phil, or nate, or superfly jimmy snuka, this season HAD to happen as we now know who the guys we can start building a team with. not building around, but a step 1 in truly rebuilding this franchise. alot of people are upset with this season...wins/losses, roster shuffles, mutinybury, etc. hey, i sat in section 404 two to three times a week watching this LIVE. but i'm not upset. i think this season is the best thing to happen to this franchise b/c things that needed to be exposed were. i don't understand people asking for lb's dismissal just b/c of a step backwards this season. in fact, if you go by his M.O. - the first season is always crappy, it's not until season 2 or 3 do we really see growth. so what was the difference here? nothing if you ask me. names are sexier but that's all...just the names. their games have a lot left to be desired, especially on the defensive end. lb is playing 3 rookies, 3 guys in the league for 2 years, constant injuries, and not to mention our vets suck...41 wins with those ingredients don't happen.

it's ok b/c hey, guess what, the season is done. so we all survived it. we should be happy b/c now, we can endure anything as a fan base. so let's see what happens starting thursday. i don't need any explanations from the team as to what happened this year. people will spin everything any way they want. all we can judge things by are actions, so let's see the course of action they take this summer. just like the 6 game win streak was a blip on the radar, so is this season. it's just a blip in the big picture.

Yup. 40 win seasons just would have masked the fact that we were making the same mistakes over and over again. It would have continued the trend of "one player needed to put us over the top". We would have continued to see Isiah or any other GM make desperation moves to find a savior. I said '99 was the worst thing to happen to us and most said I was a moron. Maybe, but I don't think so. I am saying right now that this season WAS THE BEST thing that happened to us in a long time. Why? Because there is no more hiding now,it's finally going to force us to make some changes to the methods we have carried out for 7 years.............I think
I just hope that people will like me
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

4/18/2006  9:22 PM
Posted by McK1:

get rid of Steph and replace him with someone who genuinely cares about doing what the coach wants and things will be very different



yeah...remove Marbs and all things stay the same we win 20-25 gmes next year with Brown...

eViL
Posts: 25412
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 1/21/2004
Member: #561
USA
4/18/2006  9:43 PM
Posted by holfresh:


yeah...remove Marbs and all things stay the same we win 20-25 gmes next year with Brown...

Similar to the way Orlando fell apart when they traded Steve Francis.
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
Bobby
Posts: 22094
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/18/2003
Member: #408
USA
4/18/2006  10:38 PM
look how kwame is turning the corner under phil jackson. look at the exchange they had. and to think fans wanted kwame on this team on larry's watch ?

lets not mention the learning experience curry is getting under brown

imho larry lame dont have the mentality to deal with egos. get rid of everybody and get larry all the role players he needs to play the game right.

and when zeke trades for everything larry wants will larry deliver a championship?
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
oohah
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/7/2005
Member: #887
4/18/2006  10:48 PM
Similar to the way Orlando fell apart when they traded Steve Francis.

Orlando had Jameer Nelson groomed and ready to step in Francis' slot. Who do the Knicks have? Frank Williams?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
4/18/2006  10:50 PM
Posted by oohah:
Similar to the way Orlando fell apart when they traded Steve Francis.

Orlando had Jameer Nelson groomed and ready to step in Francis' slot. Who do the Knicks have? Frank Williams?

oohah

They also got Trevor Ariza and Darko Milicic pretty cheap because Larry Brown personally destroyed their trade value.


¿ △ ?
eViL
Posts: 25412
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 1/21/2004
Member: #561
USA
4/18/2006  10:57 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by oohah:
Similar to the way Orlando fell apart when they traded Steve Francis.

Orlando had Jameer Nelson groomed and ready to step in Francis' slot. Who do the Knicks have? Frank Williams?

oohah


They also got Trevor Ariza and Darko Milicic pretty cheap because Larry Brown personally destroyed their trade value.


Yeah, LB was so terrible to Ariza that he played him more than Brian Hill does in Orlando. He sure destroyed Ariza's value. Ariza couldn't hit a jumpshot to save his life!! And he wants to be a wingman in the NBA!?!?
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
eViL
Posts: 25412
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 1/21/2004
Member: #561
USA
4/18/2006  10:59 PM
Oh and Darko played like a beast under Flip Saunders, didn't he? Funny, he's only showing signs now... I wonder why. Maybe it's because he's not stuck behind 4 superior front court players on a championship contending team.
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
eViL
Posts: 25412
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 1/21/2004
Member: #561
USA
4/18/2006  11:03 PM
Posted by oohah:
Similar to the way Orlando fell apart when they traded Steve Francis.

Orlando had Jameer Nelson groomed and ready to step in Francis' slot. Who do the Knicks have? Frank Williams?

oohah

It still doesn't change the fact that they got way better the minute Francis was gone. They had Jameer while Francis was there. Why the turnaround then? He's playing roughly the same amount of minutes that he played with Francis still on the team. Why would they be better if they removed a "talented" player and replaced him with nothing?
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
Not 1 player has flourished under LB, Not 1!!!

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy