Posted by Bippity10:
When have I mentioned your name as someone who gets it?
Perhaps I mistook your words. That was my perception, but on this board I can't even find the threads I've posted in, let alone specific posts of mine or anyone else, so there's no way to know.
I still think booing marbs and writing in the press that he is the cause for our problems is destructive because it's just a smoke screen. It's all of the players.
It's certainly some more than others.
My issue with you is your characterizations of my criticisms of Marbury as "scapegoating". Scapegoating is blaming someone for the faults of others, and that is not what I've done, I've held Marbury accountable for his own faults - and some just don't like to hear it.
You might have percieved me to be "blaming it all one Marbury", but dj and TKF can attest that on the other board, which has a zillion posters, NOBODY argued stronger for a traditional rebuild than myself. One where we create a system of winning and development from within. The blame for not doing that clearly rests on the shoulders of Dolan, Mills, Isiah, and who knows who else in upper management. I certainly can't fault Marbury for that, and never have. I've never said he was the sole reason for our record, past, present or future. I already mentioned having written a post here detailing how our methodology stears us away from premium talent and into reclamation projects, of which Steph is highly embelmatic. Some might also remember a post where I divided the league up into thirds by payroll and evidenced that there was NO correlation between money spent and wins. I tell you this simply to remind you that all my fingers do not point solely to Marbury, as you would like to insinuate.
However, once an erroneous path was chosen we can look at the specific moves within, and the Marbury signing was clearly one the larger errors. We could have embarked down a similar structural path and still come out better. Perhaps if we'd used our expirings on Sheed and carter, As one example.
That our organizational efforts are flawed doesn't absolve specific individuals from their own faults and accountability. But when it was Steph's turn to shoulder HIS from me you balked.
But more recently you told others their support of certain players, which included him, was "enabling" them and/or management in regards to them. I happen to agree with that, and that happens to fall more closely in line with my efforts regarding Marbury all along, but you characterized them as finger pointing and scapegoating. I simply think there was subtle shift in the criticisms you will allow now - perhaps so subtle you hadn't even noticed.
You may think I'm trying to nail you, or say I was right and you were wrong. I'm not. I just noticed a change in your relationship to my posts and wondered if your perceptions had altered or evolved over the course of the season. My suspision was though that perhaps you underestimated Marbury's negative effect before, but were hip to it now, and would take the opportunity to acknowledge that. I see no shame in that; none of us get it all right every time. For instance I've been a strong supporter of Brown, but if things keep spiraling downward there may come a point next year when I'll say "it wasn't
ALL LB's fault, but I may have underestimated his role." I'd be more than willing to do so if necessary.
It's all of the players. It's marbs sniping at a coach. It's Woods sniping at a coach. It's Q sniping at a coach. It's guys like Curry and Nate making the same mistakes over and over again. It's everyone. What I applaud are those that don't point fingers and create an atmosphere of targeting one guy. If marbs has to go so be it. If he stays so be it. I don't care. I care about the Knicks, not LB, not Steph, not anyone else. The knicks. It is about a team, not individuals. The day we figure that out, is the day we start to turn this embarrassment around.
Yes, yes, of course. However what I've maintained is we'll never know what this team is capable of until Marbury is gone, and I stand by that. He's just a flash point for too many of our issues. Now that we have Mo, Jalen, Curry, Francis, etc, it's a lot easier to say how many are at fault, but there was a time there were fewer but the problems were the same. There is simply a consistency to splintering and underachieving that follows Marbury and I've done my best to explore, analyze and explain why.
I know some can't hear that unless it's diluted with conditions, like injuries, other players, coaches, managerial mistakes, et al, but Marbury's issues remain, and I will not let him hide from them.
For instance, you said elsewhere that these guys quit on Lenny and Herb last year. I don't think they did, I think they quit on each other. I think divided and factionalized teams are just as likely to fail as those wholly united against a coach. More so in fact. If our team were
united against a coach it would be easier to swap out the coach and come to a quick resolution, but a splintered/shattered team can be almost impossible to reunite and reunify without cutting out the dead wood.
Anyway, I'm not going to remake the case, and I'm sure so long as I hold my strong opinions on Steph they'll be too strong for your taste, and you'll label it and me and deflect it.
This is NOT all Marbury's fault, but he's been a terrible onus for this fragile and struggling franchise to bear and I think his negative influence has been vastly underrated by many. Fortunately far less so now.
[Edited by - BlueSeats on 04-10-2006 3:33 PM]
4/11/2006 2:56 PM
