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players and lb
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Swishfm3
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4/5/2006  9:00 AM
Watching George Karl on "Quite Frankly" yesterday, he said...

(not verbatim)

"Martin is far from being 100%, but now (with the exception of Nene) that I have all my players now, I'll take this time to define their roles. 20 games is about all a coach needs to do this."

funny that it's taking our HOF coach a whole season......

OH WAIT!!! IT'S MARBURY'S FAULT!!!!!
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eViL
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4/5/2006  9:30 AM
Posted by Swishfm3:

funny that it's taking our HOF coach a whole season......

You're right the players were all champs, all-stars, future all-stars and all-NBA defenders before LB got here. He ruined us...
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joec32033
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4/5/2006  9:37 AM
Is this the same George Karl that had tumuluous relationships with a latter day Payton, Ray Allen, Glenn Robinson, Vin Baker, Kenyon Martin earlier in the season........the one who's claim to fame is his team LOST to an 8th seed in the playoffs 10 years ago? How many times has he reached the 2nd round of the playoffs...if you are gonna judge LB by his deficiencies don't judge other coaches soley by their success...

[Edited by - joec32033 on 04-05-2006 09:39 AM]
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TheSage
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4/5/2006  10:08 AM
It is easy to say that the puzzle should be solved in 20 or 30 moves but if the pieces don't fit and can't be cut why try to complete the puzzle. Find all the ones that fit and throw away the rest or trade them for ones that do.
joec32033
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4/5/2006  10:14 AM
Posted by TheSage:

It is easy to say that the puzzle should be solved in 20 or 30 moves but if the pieces don't fit and can't be cut why try to complete the puzzle. Find all the ones that fit and throw away the rest or trade them for ones that do.

Funny, I would think a real coach would see every situation is different and would only comment on his own team when he doesn't know anything that is really going on with the other 29 teams.
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Bippity10
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4/5/2006  10:52 AM
When are fans going to realize that we are not the Nuggets, Bulls, Raptors, Pistons etc. We are the worst organization in modern sports, possibly in history!!!!!! We cannot be compared to other teams in the league right now. We cannot be waisting time catering to players, fitting situations for them so we can maximize our roster, win 35-40 games and continue 7 years of mediocrity and then hope that we can make a free-agent signing or fire a coach and magically turn ourselves into Phoenix East. Get it through your head it is not going to happen. Losing is so ingrained in the NY psyche that it is infesting every player that comes here. We must destroy that atmosphere first before we can even consider any type of winning. It cannot happen any other way. We have a coach that sets a standard(like playing hard, sharing with teammates, playing defense). If that standard is too high for you great. I dont' think you are a bad person. Fine, just take your act elsewhere. I'm sure you can find another coach that has done exactly what fans are asking LB to do. Cater to you, design systems for you and help you to continue with all the bad habits that have led you to the point where you can only play in a system that is specifically designed for you and never develop into a COMPLETE PLAYER.

People, people, people there is a saying that everyone quotes but only champions follow. "winners do whatever it takes to win". Not all systems will be designed for players but it is their responsibility to find a way to fit in the system that is available. If you try hard and fail then we will find a better way. But if you don't give an effort I am not changing anything for you. Only lazy people and pansies think this is a good idea. NO EXCUSES FOR NOT TRYING HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!
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fishmike
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4/5/2006  10:57 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

When are fans going to realize that we are not the Nuggets, Bulls, Raptors, Pistons etc. We are the worst organization in modern sports, possibly in history!!!!!! We cannot be compared to other teams in the league right now. We cannot be waisting time catering to players, fitting situations for them so we can maximize our roster, win 35-40 games and continue 7 years of mediocrity and then hope that we can make a free-agent signing or fire a coach and magically turn ourselves into Phoenix East. Get it through your head it is not going to happen. Losing is so ingrained in the NY psyche that it is infesting every player that comes here. We must destroy that atmosphere first before we can even consider any type of winning. It cannot happen any other way. We have a coach that sets a standard(like playing hard, sharing with teammates, playing defense). If that standard is too high for you great. I dont' think you are a bad person. Fine, just take your act elsewhere. I'm sure you can find another coach that has done exactly what fans are asking LB to do. Cater to you, design systems for you and help you to continue with all the bad habits that have led you to the point where you can only play in a system that is specifically designed for you and never develop into a COMPLETE PLAYER.

People, people, people there is a saying that everyone quotes but only champions follow. "winners do whatever it takes to win". Not all systems will be designed for players but it is their responsibility to find a way to fit in the system that is available. If you try hard and fail then we will find a better way. But if you don't give an effort I am not changing anything for you. Only lazy people and pansies think this is a good idea. NO EXCUSES FOR NOT TRYING HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!
so what your saying is Larry should cater more to the players?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
holfresh
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4/5/2006  11:03 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

When are fans going to realize that we are not the Nuggets, Bulls, Raptors, Pistons etc. We are the worst organization in modern sports, possibly in history!!!!!! We cannot be compared to other teams in the league right now. We cannot be waisting time catering to players, fitting situations for them so we can maximize our roster, win 35-40 games and continue 7 years of mediocrity and then hope that we can make a free-agent signing or fire a coach and magically turn ourselves into Phoenix East. Get it through your head it is not going to happen. Losing is so ingrained in the NY psyche that it is infesting every player that comes here. We must destroy that atmosphere first before we can even consider any type of winning. It cannot happen any other way. We have a coach that sets a standard(like playing hard, sharing with teammates, playing defense). If that standard is too high for you great. I dont' think you are a bad person. Fine, just take your act elsewhere. I'm sure you can find another coach that has done exactly what fans are asking LB to do. Cater to you, design systems for you and help you to continue with all the bad habits that have led you to the point where you can only play in a system that is specifically designed for you and never develop into a COMPLETE PLAYER.

People, people, people there is a saying that everyone quotes but only champions follow. "winners do whatever it takes to win". Not all systems will be designed for players but it is their responsibility to find a way to fit in the system that is available. If you try hard and fail then we will find a better way. But if you don't give an effort I am not changing anything for you. Only lazy people and pansies think this is a good idea. NO EXCUSES FOR NOT TRYING HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!



Bip, I really don't understand, Is Larry Brown the only coach that has this holy grail to winning? or turning an organization around?.....Is it his way or no way at all???

Nalod
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4/5/2006  11:08 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Bippity10:

When are fans going to realize that we are not the Nuggets, Bulls, Raptors, Pistons etc. We are the worst organization in modern sports, possibly in history!!!!!! We cannot be compared to other teams in the league right now. We cannot be waisting time catering to players, fitting situations for them so we can maximize our roster, win 35-40 games and continue 7 years of mediocrity and then hope that we can make a free-agent signing or fire a coach and magically turn ourselves into Phoenix East. Get it through your head it is not going to happen. Losing is so ingrained in the NY psyche that it is infesting every player that comes here. We must destroy that atmosphere first before we can even consider any type of winning. It cannot happen any other way. We have a coach that sets a standard(like playing hard, sharing with teammates, playing defense). If that standard is too high for you great. I dont' think you are a bad person. Fine, just take your act elsewhere. I'm sure you can find another coach that has done exactly what fans are asking LB to do. Cater to you, design systems for you and help you to continue with all the bad habits that have led you to the point where you can only play in a system that is specifically designed for you and never develop into a COMPLETE PLAYER.

People, people, people there is a saying that everyone quotes but only champions follow. "winners do whatever it takes to win". Not all systems will be designed for players but it is their responsibility to find a way to fit in the system that is available. If you try hard and fail then we will find a better way. But if you don't give an effort I am not changing anything for you. Only lazy people and pansies think this is a good idea. NO EXCUSES FOR NOT TRYING HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!



Bip, I really don't understand, Is Larry Brown the only coach that has this holy grail to winning? or turning an organization around?.....Is it his way or no way at all???


Of course not. But you hired the man to do HIS job, and he is doing it.

Looking for blame? Blame Isiah!

Season is almost over. The real season starts in June!

eViL
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4/5/2006  11:11 AM
Posted by holfresh:

Bip, I really don't understand, Is Larry Brown the only coach that has this holy grail to winning? or turning an organization around?.....Is it his way or no way at all???

No. He's not the only coach that has ever won. Maybe you think we should listen to Starbury and cater to all the losers on the team. Let's run the ball. Forget the fact that we can't get stops or that we turn the ball over relentlessly.
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holfresh
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4/5/2006  11:12 AM

You're wrong..he is building dissent...I saw these guys playing much harder for Herb last year...What idiot would want to sign the MLE to come here next year after watching the sheer kaos lead by the head coach of all people...You call tha doing his job?...

Isiah gets lots of blame for bringing Brown here...U are certainly right about that...

holfresh
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4/5/2006  11:14 AM


Catering to the players no one is suggesting that...but when do you guys think that Brown is over doing it a little...when does that happen??..It's not about basketball anymore..he can't relate to the team at all....
Bippity10
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4/5/2006  11:17 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Bippity10:

When are fans going to realize that we are not the Nuggets, Bulls, Raptors, Pistons etc. We are the worst organization in modern sports, possibly in history!!!!!! We cannot be compared to other teams in the league right now. We cannot be waisting time catering to players, fitting situations for them so we can maximize our roster, win 35-40 games and continue 7 years of mediocrity and then hope that we can make a free-agent signing or fire a coach and magically turn ourselves into Phoenix East. Get it through your head it is not going to happen. Losing is so ingrained in the NY psyche that it is infesting every player that comes here. We must destroy that atmosphere first before we can even consider any type of winning. It cannot happen any other way. We have a coach that sets a standard(like playing hard, sharing with teammates, playing defense). If that standard is too high for you great. I dont' think you are a bad person. Fine, just take your act elsewhere. I'm sure you can find another coach that has done exactly what fans are asking LB to do. Cater to you, design systems for you and help you to continue with all the bad habits that have led you to the point where you can only play in a system that is specifically designed for you and never develop into a COMPLETE PLAYER.

People, people, people there is a saying that everyone quotes but only champions follow. "winners do whatever it takes to win". Not all systems will be designed for players but it is their responsibility to find a way to fit in the system that is available. If you try hard and fail then we will find a better way. But if you don't give an effort I am not changing anything for you. Only lazy people and pansies think this is a good idea. NO EXCUSES FOR NOT TRYING HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!



Bip, I really don't understand, Is Larry Brown the only coach that has this holy grail to winning? or turning an organization around?.....Is it his way or no way at all???


Holfresh: Any coach that comes here is going to have to do exactly what LB is trying to do. Status quo has not been a viable option for 7 years, we've just tried it and that's why we are in the mess we are in. Any good coach would do the exact same thing, set a standard and have the players raise their games to meet that standard. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

You seem to harp on my love for LB. I don't love LB. I don't love his methods. But I know he is a winner and I know his system is proven to win. And I know that as a Knick fan I want to win. So seeing that he has won and our players have not, as a Knick fan I say screw the players who don't want to do the winning way. The name means nothing to me. That's media nonsense. Winning a title is the only thing important to me. Maximizing this current roster and winning 35 games by changing a system that has proven to win so that STeph can be Starbury and Nate can preen and brag in a 40 pt loss is not the direction that I plan on going with.

holfresh: I'm sure in your life you've been on a team that has won before. And the one thing you will notice is that even if every person on that team hated the coach, they all still listened. Our players don't, they don't play hard, they steal your ticket and cable money and yet you want to fire the coach or force him to cater to them, not hurt their feelings and make sure they have everything designed for them. If he did that, that's the day you would hear me calling for his firing. It's about RAISING YOUR STANDARDS AND NOT SELLING OUT TO WIN A FEW GAMES.

The only thing I'm angry about right now is that LB is not in a press conference righ now, calling out players by name and lambasting them after last night.
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Bippity10
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4/5/2006  11:29 AM
How do you guys watch games like last night and not want every player out of here and want players in here that will listen to the coach. How is this possible??????????? They aren't trying!!!! They aren't attempting. Because the coach is hard on them they decide to quit. And that is the team you want to build with???? They played harder for Herb. Different team, but who cares. Even if this roster played harder last year it doesn't matter. What matters is that they quit. That is the only thing is important. Read that sentence again. The team quit. I have hated coach's before with a passion, but my pride and self dignity has never in my life allowed me to quit. I don't have it in me, and it makes me sick to my stomach to watch guys that do and then use the coach as an excuse. It's amazing to me that you guys are okay with this.

It's funny how players hate LB when they are playing for him. Then when they realize that they are winning and have elevated their games suddenly it all magically fits and they understand his methods. And they come out stronger and can fit in any system at this point. They all thank him and come out winners. Those that can't take it and don't listen just go on to bring their bad habits elsewhere, lose elsewhere and continue to brag about thier useless "killer crossovers"

Five coach's we've fired and nothing has changed. Apparently Donald Duck would be a better choice than Don or Lenny or Herb and now LB. The names change but the song remains the same. When are you going to realize it's not the coach. It's not the players. It's not the GM. It's not the owner. It's everyone. We need to change the atmosphere here to one of winning. Those that fit that atmosphere can stay regardless of how poorly or well they are playing. Atmosphere comes first, winning will follow. Enough dreaming of savior coach's and savior players that will lead us. We must change our methods and create some stability
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djsunyc
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4/5/2006  11:38 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

How do you guys watch games like last night and not want every player out of here and want players in here that will listen to the coach. How is this possible??????????? They aren't trying!!!! They aren't attempting. Because the coach is hard on them they decide to quit. And that is the team you want to build with???? They played harder for Herb. Different team, but who cares. Even if this roster played harder last year it doesn't matter. What matters is that they quit. That is the only thing is important. Read that sentence again. The team quit. I have hated coach's before with a passion, but my pride and self dignity has never in my life allowed me to quit. I don't have it in me, and it makes me sick to my stomach to watch guys that do and then use the coach as an excuse. It's amazing to me that you guys are okay with this.

It's funny how players hate LB when they are playing for him. Then when they realize that they are winning and have elevated their games suddenly it all magically fits and they understand his methods. And they come out stronger and can fit in any system at this point. They all thank him and come out winners. Those that can't take it and don't listen just go on to bring their bad habits elsewhere, lose elsewhere and continue to brag about thier useless "killer crossovers"

Five coach's we've fired and nothing has changed. Apparently Donald Duck would be a better choice than Don or Lenny or Herb and now LB. The names change but the song remains the same. When are you going to realize it's not the coach. It's not the players. It's not the GM. It's not the owner. It's everyone. We need to change the atmosphere here to one of winning. Those that fit that atmosphere can stay regardless of how poorly or well they are playing. Atmosphere comes first, winning will follow. Enough dreaming of savior coach's and savior players that will lead us. We must change our methods and create some stability

this is what i don't get...the two guys having possibly the WORST season's of their careers are the few that do care. these guys are busting ass out there. why can they do it but others can't? somebody explain that to me. why can a guy like q1, who can't hit the side of a barn, continue to play hard, grab boards, and play with a semi-broken thumb go out an play like it's his last game, when other guys are loafing at the end of the bench laughing? why?
TheSage
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4/5/2006  11:42 AM
LB is one of maybe a half dozen BB coaches who command immediate respect. He has won with different teams and players but certain basics must be there-unselfishness, help defense, hard work, ball protection. Notice-not one of those things demand great talent. AI said it in his interview with SAS-"Larry Brown is the best coach in the NBA". IT has assembled a group of fine athletes though not all of them are basketball players.

Its been said that you can't fire the team so you fire the coach-what coach is going to bring a banner to NY with this group of me first, my contract, my image players???

Here, the cycle must be broken, Marbury off to Minn,expiring contracts to the bench, Francis?????
Bippity10
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4/5/2006  11:48 AM
While everyone was packing it in and taking games off, Q played hurt in a meaningless game. That's what we need. That's the atmosphere we should be promoting. That's what the papers should be writing about. These are the type of guys we need. Who cares what they say. It's about actions.
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Nalod
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4/5/2006  12:54 PM
Posted by holfresh:


You're wrong..he is building dissent...I saw these guys playing much harder for Herb last year...What idiot would want to sign the MLE to come here next year after watching the sheer kaos lead by the head coach of all people...You call tha doing his job?...

Isiah gets lots of blame for bringing Brown here...U are certainly right about that...


Larry did sot creat dissent, he is boiling it and bringing it to the surface. We can now all look into the souls of the players and find out who is real, and who is mailing it in.

This is not all for naught. It is purposeful. Painful, but purposeful.

All we can do is hope.

martin
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4/5/2006  12:57 PM
Posted by Nalod:


Larry did sot creat dissent, he is boiling it and bringing it to the surface. We can now all look into the souls of the players and find out who is real, and who is mailing it in.

This is not all for naught. It is purposeful. Painful, but purposeful.

All we can do is hope.

emphasis on painful.
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McK1
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4/5/2006  1:01 PM
LB rode AI the hardest, had him traded every summer, blasted his practice habits and yet in still Iverson came out and left it all on the court.

Out of all these big names, we have NOONE here AI status and now its becoming clear why.
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players and lb

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