Posted by martin:

Posted by EnySpree:

Brown:"But do you write that Nate got 34 and Allen Iverson got 47?" Brown said. "People don't see that. They see 34 points. I love the fans loving him. There's not a lot of things that've been real positive. They like that enthusiasm and stuff like that. I would rather have us try to win a game and do the right thing."

So next time Nate should try to hold Iverson to what? 33pts (season average)?....and then don't take a shot even if he's hot to Mo Taylor so he can hold it for 5 seconds? If a guy is averaging 33pts per he is gonna get 40-50 points alot during the year. Nothing you can do about it.

If Brown wants to win the game....then get his players to play his way already. Take control. Win. The players are doing their own thing because Brown has not even tried to get them on the same page.......After 70 plus games the Knicks still look like they just met each other at the YMCA for a pick up game.

you've convinced me. Brown has not tried to get the players to win the game. Or tried to get his players to play his way already. Nor has he tried to take control. Or win. In less than 365 days all has been lost on the old guy. The players have nothing to do with it.

That's where you are wrong again......I have always said the players deserve what they get......but you refuse to except the fact Larry has been a bust this year because of what he did way back in 1988!

Posted by martin:

Posted by EnySpree:

Posted by martin:

Posted by EnySpree:

Brown:"But do you write that Nate got 34 and Allen Iverson got 47?" Brown said. "People don't see that. They see 34 points. I love the fans loving him. There's not a lot of things that've been real positive. They like that enthusiasm and stuff like that. I would rather have us try to win a game and do the right thing."

So next time Nate should try to hold Iverson to what? 33pts (season average)?....and then don't take a shot even if he's hot to Mo Taylor so he can hold it for 5 seconds? If a guy is averaging 33pts per he is gonna get 40-50 points alot during the year. Nothing you can do about it.

If Brown wants to win the game....then get his players to play his way already. Take control. Win. The players are doing their own thing because Brown has not even tried to get them on the same page.......After 70 plus games the Knicks still look like they just met each other at the YMCA for a pick up game.

you've convinced me. Brown has not tried to get the players to win the game. Or tried to get his players to play his way already. Nor has he tried to take control. Or win. In less than 365 days all has been lost on the old guy. The players have nothing to do with it.

That's where you are wrong again......I have always said the players deserve what they get......but you refuse to except the fact Larry has been a bust this year because of what he did way back in 1988!

Let me know where I have said that Larry has not been a bust. And why change the topic of arguement? I thought we were talking about MoT or Nate's preening.

LB could have coached this team for a few more wins. Part of that would have been limiting Nate's and the other rookies minutes. Would you want that?

Read the signature.....

Posted by EnySpree:

Posted by martin:

Posted by EnySpree:

Posted by martin:

Posted by EnySpree:

Brown:"But do you write that Nate got 34 and Allen Iverson got 47?" Brown said. "People don't see that. They see 34 points. I love the fans loving him. There's not a lot of things that've been real positive. They like that enthusiasm and stuff like that. I would rather have us try to win a game and do the right thing."

So next time Nate should try to hold Iverson to what? 33pts (season average)?....and then don't take a shot even if he's hot to Mo Taylor so he can hold it for 5 seconds? If a guy is averaging 33pts per he is gonna get 40-50 points alot during the year. Nothing you can do about it.

If Brown wants to win the game....then get his players to play his way already. Take control. Win. The players are doing their own thing because Brown has not even tried to get them on the same page.......After 70 plus games the Knicks still look like they just met each other at the YMCA for a pick up game.

you've convinced me. Brown has not tried to get the players to win the game. Or tried to get his players to play his way already. Nor has he tried to take control. Or win. In less than 365 days all has been lost on the old guy. The players have nothing to do with it.

That's where you are wrong again......I have always said the players deserve what they get......but you refuse to except the fact Larry has been a bust this year because of what he did way back in 1988!

Let me know where I have said that Larry has not been a bust. And why change the topic of arguement? I thought we were talking about MoT or Nate's preening.

LB could have coached this team for a few more wins. Part of that would have been limiting Nate's and the other rookies minutes. Would you want that?

Read the signature.....

so you are telling me that if we had Curry, AD (or Malik), Barnes, Q, Marb for the entire year with nary a sight of Nate, Lee, Bulter and a set rotation, you would be happy?

Tell me, how many of those 40 lineups were the result of injuries? And what is the average number is lineup changes for a team that is, say, 0.400 over the past few years. I bet it would be close the the Knicks' numbers (plus or minus the start-in-your-hometown thing).

Also, why haven't we heard the players complain directly about the start-in-hometown thing? Either it hasn't gotten to the beat writers or perhaps it don't really matter.

I've been saying it for 7 years now. NY fans have bought into this culture of losing and can't differentiate between winning plays and entertainment anymore. It's really sad.

Ooooo aight that the truth! but I think after hitting rock bottom this season NY is finally seeing the difference. and when that happens changes are made because there is too much money on the line.

Posted by EnySpree:

Posted by martin:

Posted by EnySpree:

Posted by djsunyc:

i like nate alot but he's acting like a kid. he's 21 years old, he's in the nba and he has a child of his own. he's funny and all but at the end of the day, he's in a very serious position. he needs to act that way. i think lb telling him to chill out with the bravado when you're losing and using iverson as a classic example is good for nate. and seeing steph & lb at odds is not a good situation for a guy like nate to be exposed to (that goes for all of our young kids). nate has alot of talent but he has a way to go mentally. whether he's here or not, his coach has to be patient. sending him to the d-league is not a demotion. in fact, it means they like you and want you to improve certain parts of your game so they can USE you. in all honesty, if q1 was healthy from day 1 and steph & lb were on the same page, and jamal got it right away, nate wouldn't even be off inactive the entire season. he was fortunate to get PT at all. and with it, he's shown he can play in the league...but he still has to figure out HOW to play.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 04-04-2006 10:19 AM]

Nothing wrong with what you are saying.

Still as a coach you have to know when to let go and when pull that string. Brown doesn't know when to do that. The world is filled with all types of personalities. For one I before I got hurt, I played basketball with a guy that never said a word for the entire year and change I've known him. Not a single word on or off the court. He's not retarded or slow. He just chooses not to speak if he has nothing to say. Point being, you have to treat everyone differnt yet get everyone on the same page. Brown and his army of coaches has failed miserably.

I seriously don't know how you can make a statement like that. All year long Nate has been brining it with the enthusism. It's great. But when you are down big or giving up 47 points, coach has a point that you should probably tone it down.

I'm not living in the past.....I'm looking at what has happened this year.

Brown was the best coach in basketball....this year he isn't. Forget his track record and look at the Knicks record....they are the worst. Larry has not done his job at all....all he has done was belittle his players in the media and remind people who he is and what he's done.

Brown needs to have the perfect situation to play the right way....which is bull****. There is more than one way to skin a cat....there is more than one way to win at basketball. All the stuff he is preaching is fine but it's his job as a coach to get his players to do it. He failed......he might not have the best roster in the NBA.....but he damn sure doesn't have the worst roster.

Brown spends more time hugging and kissing his former players before and after games than working with his own player. He praises every other players and ****s on his own. Never heard of that before.....

Am I lying?

Playing players according to hometowns? WTF? Thats not trying to promote stability or chemistry....that is confusion and resentment. Brown is the one. Wake up Martin.....I don't wanna hear about what he did in Kansas or his San Antonio team filled with "CBA players". Brown told us that already. What happened to him this year.

No one told Starks to stop. Starks was a maniac on the court. You can't stop a player from getting up during a game. You coach him to use that to his advantage but you don't tell him to stop and you don't leak info to Frank Isola to tarnish his image.

Wanna trade guys? How? The greatest coach in the world with the track record to prove it constantly ****s on their lives.....

Am I lying?

Respectively, we disagree on one major point.

I feel like Larry does not respect many of these players as they have not earned the freedoms.

Play defense. Its not that they can't, they are not. IN general I mean. All great teams start with defense.

John starks was out of control and at times he hurt the team. BUt, he played Defense. Talk about The 1990s team, they played defense first and foremost. So don't talk about John Starks and not talk about his respect for Riley. Riley respected you because you did what he said to do. Otherwise, you were gone!

I think way too much is made over public comments. Reezy went to UCLA, and Larry has been quoted to say he should have not left as he loved coaching there. His comment was made in jest. To say Georgia Tech is an engineering school does not belittle the university nor its academics. And to say Steph after one year there is a loyal benefactor of its alumni might be as Stretch.

I have heard Larry say many postive things about the players when they were winning. And take a lot of blame for what is happening. Coaches have to talk to the press and after 31 years of coaching you tell it like it is.

Larry has lost respect for some of these guys and they have not listened to their coach.

Lets look at Nate. He has been out of control many times. His is always joking and when he finally buckles down and has a string of effective practices, he gets playing time. Wins are not piling up, but he is getting his run. Things are going well and Larry is complementing him in the press. Am I lying? No.

Then he has a nice game point wise, but is showboating while we are losing. Losing teams don't showboat!

Fans are eating this stuff up. He is a bright spot, but that just goes to show you how bad this season has been. Larry is made to look like the bad grumpy old man because little nate was showing off while losing a game and the crowd liked it. He was being a clown out there. Its wrong, and on a team that is pathetic you don't let that go on. Its disrespectful in many ways.

Oh, and he was getting lit by AI. Sorry, I don't think its right.

I understand blame must go somewhere, but the general charactor of this team is one of the most undesirable group of players I have ever seen. The Glue was ANtonio Davis, and its too bad he was traded. But logic would stand someone would have stepped up. Maybe on this team ther is too much disrespect for anyone to bear.

Look at the fine coaches we have on this team. Herb is no 1 assistant. His ass may be fired. Why no mention of him?

There is somthing very wrong with this group, and I think Larry brings out the worst in this team!

Maybe we can agree there, but I think what is huge is what is wrong will never translate to success with any other coach. So Larry brings it to a head sooner than later and we rid the bad elements outs.

I can't imagine what in gods name Isiah has cooking in his mind but this team is so poorly constructed logic must dictate some kind of mass acuccumulation for a larger change over this summer.

Otherwise this is perhaps the worst debacle regarding the accumulation of contract vs. Winning in the history of modern sports.

It is the coach, yeah, but he looks bad in the face of a team being told to play defense and play with a team chemistry in mind.

Maybe this is the wrong approach to take, but I am down with trying to do things the right way. So long as there are successful teams like the Pistons and the Spurs, then I believe we are doing the right thing. ANd like it or not, to what ever level one wants to take, larry did have an effect on those Detroit teams. His former players, the ones that respected him and earned respect back and earned a bit of success hug him and he hugs back. Add Iverson to that list. And when our players can so the same, they too will hug him and get love in return.

IF the only thing we can cheer about is Nate showboating and think that is right then it is a symptom of how bad our season is for the fan.

Posted by Bippity10:

Martin: I'm with you. It's really making me sick to my stomach. A billionaire player half arses his way around the court all night, not playing D, not boxing out and barely paying attention to the game. The coach pts it out and the fans get mad at the coach??????????? What the hell is going on???? I'm so confused!!!!

these are the same people that preach rebuild but have ZERO patience for one. they're kidding themselves.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 04-04-2006 2:19 PM]

Posted by Bippity10:

Nalod: phenomenal post

djsunyc: yup

nalod - that was a good post. now go find pictures of girls with big cans.

It's tough to stomach. There isn't one person attached to this organization that is doing a good job right now. Outside of the rookies is anyone earning their pay?

The fans aren't earning their pay either. WE should be demanding more. Demanding substance over nonsense. Instead we blame the one guy who actually wants to change the culture.

I actually think I would jump off a bridge if we fired LB and brought in another coach who wanted to coddle these players....er, I mean...."get the most out of these players".

I agree. He's accumulated enough assets to acquire some defensive LB type players. He hired LB late and there was little we can do in 1 year. Let's see some action this year. Otherwise it's just more of the same nonsense. If I see "Franchise" and "Starbury" on this roster this year I will just start watching hockey I guess.