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Coaching in this league may just have passed Larry bye, bye..
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martin
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3/31/2006  12:22 PM
Posted by holfresh:



It is very easy for you guys to be on this side and judge these people playing this game...It's not a one sided issue...Put yourself in their shoes...If at your job, your boss berates you and make you look bad consistantly...You have enough money in the bank to retire and the next few years are guaranteed...You guys are telling me this beratement will make you work harder? Is that right?

which can first beratement or bad play? And you have to be killing to call what Larry has said as beratement.
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holfresh
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3/31/2006  12:26 PM
It's not only these players on the Knicks...It happened in the Olympics as well with Larry...He berated players on the Olympic team..They all hated him...Carmelo,D Wade,LeBron,Amare...These are some of the hardest playing players in the league and some of the good guys as well...Larry made them all out to be bad guys...Camelo's image took a big shot after the Olympics, partly due to Brown...None of these players have anything good to say about Brown..Every time they play against him, they are inspired to play harder because of their dislike...And they have said that as well....

[Edited by - holfresh on 03-31-2006 12:28 PM]

[Edited by - holfresh on 03-31-2006 12:32 PM]
holfresh
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3/31/2006  12:30 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:



It is very easy for you guys to be on this side and judge these people playing this game...It's not a one sided issue...Put yourself in their shoes...If at your job, your boss berates you and make you look bad consistantly...You have enough money in the bank to retire and the next few years are guaranteed...You guys are telling me this beratement will make you work harder? Is that right?

which can first beratement or bad play? And you have to be killing to call what Larry has said as beratement.



So you are saying the way Brown attacked Steph and Reezy in the media was fully waranted??
Calling them stupid and talking about their college education??
martin
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3/31/2006  12:33 PM
Posted by holfresh:

It's not only these players on the Knicks...It happened in the Olympics as well with Larry...He berated players on the Olympic team..They all hated him...Carmelo,D Wade,LeBron,Amare...These are some of the hardest playing players in the league and some of the good guys as well...Larry made them all out to be bad guys...Camelo's image took a big shot after the Olympics, partly due to Brown...None of these players have anything good to say about this Brown..Every time they play against him, they are inspired to play harder because of their dislike...And they have said that as well....

[Edited by - holfresh on 03-31-2006 12:28 PM]

Brown was the wrong person to coach the team and a lot of the players were also the wrong fit.

I have a problem with the phrase "None of these players have anything good to say about this Brown" cause it ain't true. I know a couple of players who said some very good things about Brown. WHich players are you interacting with first-hand?

Pops and Phil Jackson Berate their own players all the time, so it's not the method.
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martin
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3/31/2006  12:34 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:



It is very easy for you guys to be on this side and judge these people playing this game...It's not a one sided issue...Put yourself in their shoes...If at your job, your boss berates you and make you look bad consistantly...You have enough money in the bank to retire and the next few years are guaranteed...You guys are telling me this beratement will make you work harder? Is that right?

which can first beratement or bad play? And you have to be killing to call what Larry has said as beratement.



So you are saying the way Brown attacked Steph and Reezy in the media was fully waranted??
Calling them stupid and talking about their college education??


Seriouly, you have to be ignorant to the fact that those 2 comments were not instigated by Brown and direct shots. Both were said with a large dose of sarcasm from Brown in a very joking way. Don't take what you read from NYDaily or NYPost as absolute truth. Add the grain of salt.
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holfresh
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3/31/2006  12:41 PM


What are you talking about? Sarcasm, those were not sacastic remarks and he wasn't joking....He apologies to the players later saying he was joking, but as a coach or a man in his position, you don't joke like that...It's one of those things you just can't take back..Much like making a racist remark....You just can't take it back...
Silverfuel
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3/31/2006  12:44 PM
I thought Brown was being sarcastic when he went after Reezy and Starbury. I am surprised anyone thinks otherwise.
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holfresh
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3/31/2006  12:51 PM

My opinion is not only about Brown's treatment of his player...It's more about the tactics he is using to motivate his players are not working...You guys alway bring up Pop...but when have you guys seens Pop in the media killing Duncan or other top player? The only guy he rode that I have seen was Parker when he was a rook...Who else has he riden? Who has Phil Jackson blasted in the media while playing for him? Kobe and Phil had one blow up....Brown has a blowup on every team with every top player that suits up for him...Every team....
martin
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3/31/2006  12:58 PM
Posted by holfresh:


My opinion is not only about Brown's treatment of his player...It's more about the tactics he is using to motivate his players are not working...You guys alway bring up Pop...but when have you guys seens Pop in the media killing Duncan or other top player? The only guy he rode that I have seen was Parker when he was a rook...Who else has he riden? Who has Phil Jackson blasted in the media while playing for him? Kobe and Phil had one blow up....Brown has a blowup on every team with every top player that suits up for him...Every team....

it's not about berating 1 guy or many guys. It's about guys who don't put in the effort on a consistant basis. About not running a team concept. About leaving it all on the court. Pop didn't kill Duncan cause - duh - Duncan didn't do anything wrong.

You know what? Like it or not, Brown is probably overly chatty with the media. I still can't be convinced that that has anything to do with the type of effort a player brings over the long haul. Would it effect guys, sure? Should it be a roadblock to long-term bad play? Give me a break. If you can't take the heat in this league, you shouldn't be in it.
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djsunyc
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3/31/2006  12:58 PM
Posted by holfresh:


My opinion is not only about Brown's treatment of his player...It's more about the tactics he is using to motivate his players are not working...You guys alway bring up Pop...but when have you guys seens Pop in the media killing Duncan or other top player? The only guy he rode that I have seen was Parker when he was a rook...Who else has he riden? Who has Phil Jackson blasted in the media while playing for him? Kobe and Phil had one blow up....Brown has a blowup on every team with every top player that suits up for him...Every team....

pop is hard on all his players, the difference is that's san antonio and this is ny. everything is overblown and will not be allowed to die unless the team wins in the process. pop came down to inherit duncan and robinson. those guys are the epitome of professionals. i don't like brown using the media but they ask him questions and he answers them. notice who he talks about. he doesn't say bad things about jamal, quentin, malik. he never really calls out nate, lee or channing b/c they're rooks. he's talking about steph, francis, jalen, mo, eddy, and jerome b/c he probably sees them not trying as hard as the other guys in practice. why is that so hard to accept. forget his tactics. you don't agree with them, and i don't know if i do either. but he's calling players out and is demanding change. that's a good thing dude.
holfresh
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3/31/2006  1:02 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by holfresh:


My opinion is not only about Brown's treatment of his player...It's more about the tactics he is using to motivate his players are not working...You guys alway bring up Pop...but when have you guys seens Pop in the media killing Duncan or other top player? The only guy he rode that I have seen was Parker when he was a rook...Who else has he riden? Who has Phil Jackson blasted in the media while playing for him? Kobe and Phil had one blow up....Brown has a blowup on every team with every top player that suits up for him...Every team....

pop is hard on all his players, the difference is that's san antonio and this is ny. everything is overblown and will not be allowed to die unless the team wins in the process. pop came down to inherit duncan and robinson. those guys are the epitome of professionals. i don't like brown using the media but they ask him questions and he answers them. notice who he talks about. he doesn't say bad things about jamal, quentin, malik. he never really calls out nate, lee or channing b/c they're rooks. he's talking about steph, francis, jalen, mo, eddy, and jerome b/c he probably sees them not trying as hard as the other guys in practice. why is that so hard to accept. forget his tactics. you don't agree with them, and i don't know if i do either. but he's calling players out and is demanding change. that's a good thing dude.



It's not a good thing because it's not working and made the team stop playing for him...How is that a good thing?
fishmike
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3/31/2006  1:04 PM
quit making excuses. These guys dont play hard. They show up out of shape. The dont work hard on defense. They dont share the ball. They dont listen to the coach.

Get over the berating crap. Its so lame Holfresh... it really is. Brown's treatment of his players? Every team? Please... Funny how Iverson STILL calls him the best coach ever. Funny how Billups called Marbury and told him if he listened Brown would make him a better player.

Can you not acknowledge that ALL of this, 100% of it stems from the player's inability to do the fundamental things the coach asks from them? If these guys show up in shape, and play and practice hard on DEFENSE does Larry Brown make these comments? So the players suck, dont play hard, dont try and the coach is the problem. Like he said, your the best guard in the league and we are 18-50... yea its the coach.

Holfresh what is it? Do you hate Brown? What is it about him or this team that makes you so dead set on protecting this group of losers and slackers that Isiah has assembled? I want to know, because the stuff your talking about is nitpicking BS and if you think this is why we are losing 60 games than you havent been watching.

Who didnt motivate Francis in Orl? What was Marbury's problem with D'Antoni, or in NJ when he was "all alone?" Who's to blame for Curry being out of shape every year he's been in the league except his contract year? Who fault is it Mo Taylor gain weight every year? Who didnt motivate James to show up in camp fit enough to perform simple calisthenics? Its the same story for all these guys. Everywhere they go same story.

Somehow it must be LB... 6 degrees of Larry Brown.
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holfresh
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3/31/2006  1:25 PM
Posted by fishmike:

quit making excuses. These guys dont play hard. They show up out of shape. The dont work hard on defense. They dont share the ball. They dont listen to the coach.

Get over the berating crap. Its so lame Holfresh... it really is. Brown's treatment of his players? Every team? Please... Funny how Iverson STILL calls him the best coach ever. Funny how Billups called Marbury and told him if he listened Brown would make him a better player.

Can you not acknowledge that ALL of this, 100% of it stems from the player's inability to do the fundamental things the coach asks from them? If these guys show up in shape, and play and practice hard on DEFENSE does Larry Brown make these comments? So the players suck, dont play hard, dont try and the coach is the problem. Like he said, your the best guard in the league and we are 18-50... yea its the coach.

Holfresh what is it? Do you hate Brown? What is it about him or this team that makes you so dead set on protecting this group of losers and slackers that Isiah has assembled? I want to know, because the stuff your talking about is nitpicking BS and if you think this is why we are losing 60 games than you havent been watching.

Who didnt motivate Francis in Orl? What was Marbury's problem with D'Antoni, or in NJ when he was "all alone?" Who's to blame for Curry being out of shape every year he's been in the league except his contract year? Who fault is it Mo Taylor gain weight every year? Who didnt motivate James to show up in camp fit enough to perform simple calisthenics? Its the same story for all these guys. Everywhere they go same story.

Somehow it must be LB... 6 degrees of Larry Brown.



First of all it was Marb's that called Billups and not the other way around...Marbury has done what Larry has asked this year...He has played better defense this year..not great defense but better defense...By the way, what other point guard in this league plays great defense...Kidd plays very good defense in the post because of his strengh and size....Nash plays no defense...

My problem with Brown is that he gets an automatic pass in this town...He is not held to anything...Everyone is to blame about how bad this team is...The players, the GM and the Coach, yes the Coach...But everywhere I look, It's Marbury then Isiah...Fact is we have better talent than last year...It's not the best lineup, no or the best constructed as Brown said...But it takes time..He has to find a way to make these guys look like a team and he hasn't done that...He can't wait to blame someone else, just like the rest of you guys...

You are right, I don't like him...He is not a good guy...He is overrated....The guy as a coach is just above .500 and has won one championship in 20 years of coaching...And he highjacked that team to win it....But he gets a pass...It's just unbelievable....10 mil per year....And every press conference it's about who else is not getting the job done...When do you hold Brown accountable? When?

Tell me one thing...What has to happen for you to just question the job Larry Brown has done? What has to happen?...This is the worst possible outcome and no questions is being ask of this coach? So i ask you...What has to happen?
Nalod
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3/31/2006  1:37 PM
Posted by holfresh:

It's not only these players on the Knicks...It happened in the Olympics as well with Larry...He berated players on the Olympic team..They all hated him...Carmelo,D Wade,LeBron,Amare...These are some of the hardest playing players in the league and some of the good guys as well...Larry made them all out to be bad guys...Camelo's image took a big shot after the Olympics, partly due to Brown...None of these players have anything good to say about Brown..Every time they play against him, they are inspired to play harder because of their dislike...And they have said that as well....

[Edited by - holfresh on 03-31-2006 12:28 PM]

[Edited by - holfresh on 03-31-2006 12:32 PM]


YOu forgot to mention Steph on that list. Why, cuz Larry let him play.

Those other guys were rookies that year, they did not understand either.

2 years before George Karl was completley blown out by the loss at indianopolis for the world championship.

What happend there?

Your comparing the Olympic team filled with allstars with our non allstar group? And imagine trying to win an olympic medal with Marbury as your point?

If your so compelled, then why did Detroit not revolt against him? Why the respect? Why does billips say stick with it and you'll be a better player? Why to they hate him so they still make a public display of respect and hung him before each game this season?

Think Carmello's diva act, lack of conditioning and appearence in "Don't Snitch" might have more to do with his being image being hurt than being slapped down by Larry? He should not have been on that team at that stage of his career!

And steph, after his olympic experience still endorsed Larry coming here.
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3/31/2006  1:38 PM
holfresh: My problem with Brown is that he gets an automatic pass in this town

That is what I have been saying and what Holfresh and other posters have been saying too.....All this other bull**** about defending the players is something that is in the imaginations of the rest of the Brown supporters.

holfresh has said the players suck too....just as I have.....I think everyone admitts the blame should go to the players.....but equal blame should go to Brown.....but like we have said all along Brown is getting a free past because of his "track record".

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3/31/2006  1:44 PM
LOL, just wait until the end of the season. Brown already said there will be major changes. Sounds like a guy in control of the situation. Most likely Thomas will step down and Brown will not have a figurehead in there, so when the Rose, Francis trades come down he can take full credit or blame. I wish him luck because he is destroying any possible trade value that any of these players would have but he been in the game a long time so he must know what he is doing.
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3/31/2006  2:08 PM
I hate the And1 mixtape and I know about ball. I still blame Brown.
Posted by nyk4ever:

This thread is BS because.. not one Knick on the current roster has ever been apart of a winning team and all have been castoffs from their prior teams. People that blame Larry Brown 1. know nothing about basketball and 2. are only interested in And1 mixtape basketball. Sorry neither are accepted on the Knicks. You guys are clueless. Yeah lets back Stephon Marbury who has been exiled from every team he's played on. Seriously, get with it.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 03-31-2006 01:28 AM]
nykshaknbake
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3/31/2006  2:11 PM
It IS the method. Nobody bashes players nearly as often as Brown. Not even close. If you notice, the players took it pretty much in stride for at least the 1st 1/3rd to 1/2 season. But he did it all the time and they started to hate that. Pops and Phil don't whine to the press to anywhere near the frequency Brown does.
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:

It's not only these players on the Knicks...It happened in the Olympics as well with Larry...He berated players on the Olympic team..They all hated him...Carmelo,D Wade,LeBron,Amare...These are some of the hardest playing players in the league and some of the good guys as well...Larry made them all out to be bad guys...Camelo's image took a big shot after the Olympics, partly due to Brown...None of these players have anything good to say about this Brown..Every time they play against him, they are inspired to play harder because of their dislike...And they have said that as well....

[Edited by - holfresh on 03-31-2006 12:28 PM]

Brown was the wrong person to coach the team and a lot of the players were also the wrong fit.

I have a problem with the phrase "None of these players have anything good to say about this Brown" cause it ain't true. I know a couple of players who said some very good things about Brown. WHich players are you interacting with first-hand?

Pops and Phil Jackson Berate their own players all the time, so it's not the method.
holfresh
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3/31/2006  2:49 PM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by holfresh:

It's not only these players on the Knicks...It happened in the Olympics as well with Larry...He berated players on the Olympic team..They all hated him...Carmelo,D Wade,LeBron,Amare...These are some of the hardest playing players in the league and some of the good guys as well...Larry made them all out to be bad guys...Camelo's image took a big shot after the Olympics, partly due to Brown...None of these players have anything good to say about Brown..Every time they play against him, they are inspired to play harder because of their dislike...And they have said that as well....

[Edited by - holfresh on 03-31-2006 12:28 PM]

[Edited by - holfresh on 03-31-2006 12:32 PM]


YOu forgot to mention Steph on that list. Why, cuz Larry let him play.

Those other guys were rookies that year, they did not understand either.

2 years before George Karl was completley blown out by the loss at indianopolis for the world championship.

What happend there?

Your comparing the Olympic team filled with allstars with our non allstar group? And imagine trying to win an olympic medal with Marbury as your point?

If your so compelled, then why did Detroit not revolt against him? Why the respect? Why does billips say stick with it and you'll be a better player? Why to they hate him so they still make a public display of respect and hung him before each game this season?

Think Carmello's diva act, lack of conditioning and appearence in "Don't Snitch" might have more to do with his being image being hurt than being slapped down by Larry? He should not have been on that team at that stage of his career!

And steph, after his olympic experience still endorsed Larry coming here.



I'll ask you this as well, At what point is Brown held accountable in your eyes...What has to happen before you say this guy isn't getting the job done? Will that ever happen?
fishmike
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3/31/2006  2:51 PM
first of all I'm pretty sure LB gets trashed in the papers as well.

And lets get a couple of things straight.

Larry Brown is NOT overrated, and he's NOT slightly over .500

He's 933-713 regular season and 85-79 in the playoffs. In 23 years of coaching in the NBA he's had 3 losing seasons and 1 .500 season. There is no way around this fact. The guy coaches winning basketball. Want to say thats overrated? Want to say its good players and good teams and LB's impact is overrated? FINE go ahead. All that means is the collection of losers we have are losing regardless of who coaches them.
First of all it was Marb's that called Billups and not the other way around...
what did Bilups say?
Marbury has done what Larry has asked this year
thats funny... no he hasnt. This is what LB calls him out on. He ignores play calls. He freelances. LB has said this repeatedly.
By the way, what other point guard in this league plays great defense...Kidd plays very good defense in the post because of his strengh and size....Nash plays no defense...
lots do. Keep making excuses if it makes you feel better. Watch a Pho game.. please. Nash doesnt give up open 3's. He doesnt let his man go into the paint at will. He pressures the ball at times. No, he's not a lock down defender, but he doesnt make Delonte West, Tony Allen, Earl Boykins, Dre Miller or anyone else that he guards look like a superstar. Everyone Marbury guards has a great night.
So i ask you...What has to happen?
well here you have it, and I've laid this out a couple of times. Get players with less "talent" that are willing to play team ball, defend and let Larry coach.
No ifs ands or butts, GONE: Marbury, Mo Taylor, Jerome James, Jalen Rose
Stay: Frye, Curry, Lee, QRich, Malik Rose, Crawford, Butler
on the fence: Nate, QWoods, Francis

I dont care if guys need to be bought out, traded for expiring deals, or traded for bad deals that are cheaper and buying them out.

Draft guys from good programs that stayed in school and that play team ball and defend.
Go get some good blue collar guys that want to be here and play tough Larry/NY style basketball. Al Harrington, Kenny Thomas, Marcus Banks, Jaric, whoever. Its not rocket science. Doc Rivers got a no-name team to play .500 with nothing but scrubs because they played hard and shared the ball. The only guy that turned into anything from that team was Ben Wallace, and Det was 32-50 his first year there.

Holla!
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