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Interesting quote from LB
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crzymdups
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3/26/2006  8:08 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by Solace:

What the quote means is that good teams start the play off with a lot of passing and try to find an open man. Bad teams have one player holding the ball the entire time, and then passing when there's 3 seconds left on the shot clock.

Yes, I think this is a shot at Steph.

It's a shot and its extremely true.

Yup. I agree with Elite, he's right on the money and Brown may be right - as much as I hate Brown.
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crzymdups
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3/26/2006  8:09 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Solace:

What the quote means is that good teams start the play off with a lot of passing and try to find an open man. Bad teams have one player holding the ball the entire time, and then passing when there's 3 seconds left on the shot clock.

Yes, I think this is a shot at Steph.
It can't be directed any more toward Steph than it is toward Steve and Jamal as well. They don't do any aspect of passing better than Steph.

It's directed at Steph. Jamal has been playing the Larry Brown PG style better than anyone, I wouldn't be surprised if Jamal was the starting PG next year.
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EnySpree
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3/26/2006  9:32 PM
You guys are just ridiculous. Brown makes a comment and you guys run with it. Who cares what brown has to say? He is just as much apart of the problem as anybody on the knicks.

What kills me is that so many people get excited about this sneaky woman talk that brown has iniciated from the start.

Marbs ability to break down defenses at will is a good thing. What's bad is the fact that brown won't allow the players the to play to their strengths.

This nazr thing has got to stop. Marbs to nazr was automatic last year. Guns of all people makes the comment that marbs should do the same this year. Look no further than brown on this one. Larry wants ball movement. Fine but with a talent like marbs and now Francis they should be allowed to deviate. That deviation should be understood as a team concept. When marbs is rolling he gets guys open shots and dunks. Yes the knicks needed to get some structure and get more team oriented but that was browns job.

Yall need to wake up. Yes the knicks suck but this woman drama bull**** has got to stop. When does the game matter anymore?
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crzymdups
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3/26/2006  9:46 PM
The problem this year to me hasn't been defense as much as it has been Turnovers leading to fastbreaks and runs for the other team that results in worse and worse D.

Those turnovers come partly because our talented PGs can't feed Curry in the post and because our talented PGs can't run Brown's offense.

I have been one of Steph's biggest supporters and I think he's great at running the pick and roll and I don't think Larry has done a great job or even a good job, but if Brown is here they have to build around Brown.
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holfresh
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3/26/2006  9:51 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

The problem this year to me hasn't been defense as much as it has been Turnovers leading to fastbreaks and runs for the other team that results in worse and worse D.

Those turnovers come partly because our talented PGs can't feed Curry in the post and because our talented PGs can't run Brown's offense.

I have been one of Steph's biggest supporters and I think he's great at running the pick and roll and I don't think Larry has done a great job or even a good job, but if Brown is here they have to build around Brown.



Marbs turns the ball over 2.6 times per game....How does that explain the current record...I really don't think Marbs is the problem when getting the ball into Curry...When Marbs went down Curry complained he wasn't getting the ball like he used to..I.E when Marbs was healthy...
martin
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3/26/2006  9:55 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by crzymdups:

The problem this year to me hasn't been defense as much as it has been Turnovers leading to fastbreaks and runs for the other team that results in worse and worse D.

Those turnovers come partly because our talented PGs can't feed Curry in the post and because our talented PGs can't run Brown's offense.

I have been one of Steph's biggest supporters and I think he's great at running the pick and roll and I don't think Larry has done a great job or even a good job, but if Brown is here they have to build around Brown.



Marbs turns the ball over 2.6 times per game....How does that explain the current record...I really don't think Marbs is the problem when getting the ball into Curry...When Marbs went down Curry complained he wasn't getting the ball like he used to..I.E when Marbs was healthy...

quoting stats is not the whole picture either. I saw at least 2 times in the Wolves game where Marbury had an easy enough uncontested shot and he passed it to another player. It's about when to shoot and when to pass when you are the PG. Marbury can get his own shot and he can also get other players shots too, but can he get points and assists at the right times? Can he get the ball to players when they should get them and where they should get them.

That's what will separate the Nash's, Kidd's and Marbury's of the world.
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holfresh
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3/26/2006  10:05 PM


If the guy is aggressive and take the shot he's selfish, if he doesn't take he not being a good point guard...I give...you can go back and read the post in this tread alone bashing Marbs, taking both sides of the issue about Marbs...amazing....
McK1
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3/26/2006  10:17 PM
what about that play where he was wide open from like 15 feet on the baseline and tried to feed it into a covered curry who turned towards the glass because he rightly expected a shot that resulted in a turnover?

during the next stop of play they showed Marbury trying to blame Curry for not being alert and Curry responded you were wide open - SHOOT.

Steph knows what the hell Brown wants. He is just being an ass.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
martin
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3/26/2006  11:52 PM
Posted by holfresh:



If the guy is aggressive and take the shot he's selfish, if he doesn't take he not being a good point guard...I give...you can go back and read the post in this tread alone bashing Marbs, taking both sides of the issue about Marbs...amazing....

hey man, it's not just Marb. Frye does it all the time, Lee too. If you can't tell when a player should and should not shoot the ball, don't join the discussion.
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holfresh
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3/27/2006  12:43 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:



If the guy is aggressive and take the shot he's selfish, if he doesn't take he not being a good point guard...I give...you can go back and read the post in this tread alone bashing Marbs, taking both sides of the issue about Marbs...amazing....

hey man, it's not just Marb. Frye does it all the time, Lee too. If you can't tell when a player should and should not shoot the ball, don't join the discussion.



It always gets bak there doesn't it...
EnySpree
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3/27/2006  12:43 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:



If the guy is aggressive and take the shot he's selfish, if he doesn't take he not being a good point guard...I give...you can go back and read the post in this tread alone bashing Marbs, taking both sides of the issue about Marbs...amazing....

hey man, it's not just Marb. Frye does it all the time, Lee too. If you can't tell when a player should and should not shoot the ball, don't join the discussion.

I don't understand it. Kill marbs if he shoots and kill him if he passes.

This season is not even a good to reference off of cuz all the players have played the worst ball of their careers. This season has yet to actually start cuz of the constant line-up changes and all that is Larry.

Marbs has always been a big time scorer. They label him selfish but then the dude was getting 8 assists per night every year before this one. Last year marbs had some big passing games in the high teens. How stupid of a player was he then?

Now I do agree that marbs has no clue how to win a game down the stretch....but again the coaching of brown should have fixed that problem. Instead brown sucseeded in breaking the spirits and confidence of his best players.

I gotta know if this marbury hate is personal. Does marbs rub you guys the wrong way? I'm not a big time fan of marbs but I respect his game. The knicks are bad but there has to be some kind of balance with the hate.
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holfresh
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3/27/2006  12:54 AM


The dude is lucky he was born after JFK died, they would find a way to pin that on him as well...
martin
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3/27/2006  9:26 AM
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:



If the guy is aggressive and take the shot he's selfish, if he doesn't take he not being a good point guard...I give...you can go back and read the post in this tread alone bashing Marbs, taking both sides of the issue about Marbs...amazing....

hey man, it's not just Marb. Frye does it all the time, Lee too. If you can't tell when a player should and should not shoot the ball, don't join the discussion.

I don't understand it. Kill marbs if he shoots and kill him if he passes.

This season is not even a good to reference off of cuz all the players have played the worst ball of their careers. This season has yet to actually start cuz of the constant line-up changes and all that is Larry.

Marbs has always been a big time scorer. They label him selfish but then the dude was getting 8 assists per night every year before this one. Last year marbs had some big passing games in the high teens. How stupid of a player was he then?

Now I do agree that marbs has no clue how to win a game down the stretch....but again the coaching of brown should have fixed that problem. Instead brown sucseeded in breaking the spirits and confidence of his best players.

I gotta know if this marbury hate is personal. Does marbs rub you guys the wrong way? I'm not a big time fan of marbs but I respect his game. The knicks are bad but there has to be some kind of balance with the hate.

how come you label everyone who critiques a player as a hater? I don't hate Marbury but I sure do pick up on his mistakes. Same with most of the roster and coach and GM.
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Bonn1997
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3/27/2006  9:50 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Solace:

What the quote means is that good teams start the play off with a lot of passing and try to find an open man. Bad teams have one player holding the ball the entire time, and then passing when there's 3 seconds left on the shot clock.

Yes, I think this is a shot at Steph.
It can't be directed any more toward Steph than it is toward Steve and Jamal as well. They don't do any aspect of passing better than Steph.

It's directed at Steph. Jamal has been playing the Larry Brown PG style better than anyone, I wouldn't be surprised if Jamal was the starting PG next year.
You can't have a 1 to 1 assist turnover ratio and be playing Larry Brown or any competent PG style.

rvhoss
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3/27/2006  10:06 AM
I don't think anybody is labeling everyone as a hater, it just seems odd that when marbury scores and we lose, it's because he's selfish and when he dishes, and we lose, it's because he's passing up open shots, and when he tries to get it into curry, and we lose, you say he should have shot, and when he shoots, and we lose, you say he's not getting it into curry, when he has less than 3 turnovers a game, and we lose, you say "quoting stats is not the whole picture either", but when ...

brown, and his supporters on this board, go back and forth so much, it's no wonder the players don't know when to shoot and when to pass...but it's strange how all the players (with the exception of crawford) knew when to shoot and pass before this year.

Are these discussions just bash threads, or do you honestly want to have a discussion. You can't have it both ways. You can't see a quote stating that everyone is going back and forth on marbs, then say "it ain't just marbs, but..."

What are everyone's motives?

Some say this quote isn't directed at marbury, others say this quote is Solely directed at marbury.

Is that the discussion?

The fact that a poster used to like marbs and suddenly doesn't like marbs doesn't lead any credence to the fact that this is an open statement made by a coach taken out of context.

So, we're discussing it...but let us know if you all just hate marbury, and we'll approach it from that angle, but don't look for needles in haystacks and conjure up any stat possible to show why marbury sucks at the point guard position when before this year, he was the best player on the team, and before his quote last year, considered one of the best point guards in the league.
Posted by martin:

how come you label everyone who critiques a player as a hater? I don't hate Marbury but I sure do pick up on his mistakes. Same with most of the roster and coach and GM.

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Pharzeone
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3/27/2006  10:20 AM
Posted by McK1:

what about that play where he was wide open from like 15 feet on the baseline and tried to feed it into a covered curry who turned towards the glass because he rightly expected a shot that resulted in a turnover?

during the next stop of play they showed Marbury trying to blame Curry for not being alert and Curry responded you were wide open - SHOOT.

Steph knows what the hell Brown wants. He is just being an ass.

I do believe this is the case. A test of wills. I think Marbury has gone out of his way this season to pass the ball at every opportunity. Childish perhaps, but he has. He has pointed out a couple of things, Curry does not have the greatest of hands (Butler too, becoming more and more obvious), Curry won't come get the ball once he posted in his position. Nazr was a lot more active in the post, constatn movement, he is the same way in SA now. Curry is similar to the Shaqs and Ewings, once they establish position you better get them the ball there because they ain't coming out. This cause a significant amount of TOs from being call and attempting to get Curry the ball since he will soon be call. If you guys think I am off basis on this one, just check out 82games.com for random stats. Curry, Dampier and Shaq lead the league.
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rvhoss
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3/27/2006  11:19 AM
I really think that everyone has learned from this year and that our record is nowhere an indication of how we are as a team or our future.

The minnesota game is a great example...we dig such a gigantic hole to start that all effort is wasted...but is it?

Crawford seemed to have plays actually run for him during the come back, plays that were once run for rip and reggie. He'd come off the curl, catch and shoot.

They also started to play a 2/3 like zone and press and trap. It's as if they are truly applying LB basketball.

In a rebuilding year, record isn't what is important, it's really about improvement, and I saw improvement in that game yesterday, marbs almost 10 assists, franchise 7 boards, etc.

The Q's were nowhere to be seen, but this is an open audition and we are to the point where we know what they can bring.

Even JJ is beginning to have a defined role on the team.

I think Curry and Frye are the true keys to our future.

I think we are moving in the right direction.

I'd like to see everyone stay. Even rose (who really has a kurt thomas mean streak in him, doesn't he?) is beginning to mesh in LBs scheme.

i don't know, I see the players beginning to work together as a team, I see chemistry.

And, in all actuality, that's all we really wanted in the first place.

IMHO, Jalen is the only one that will be traded next year because of his contract, but currently, I see us with role players, defensive wing players, perimeter shooters, post up options, etc.

While, others see us in need of a shot blocker, I really feel frye will become that defensive shot blocking presence...I mean, he's still a rookie....not too mention Jerome James.

But I'm addicted to Kool Aid...so take it for what it is.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 03-27-2006 5:20 PM]
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3/27/2006  11:41 AM
I really can't say that i'm surprised that AGAIN Steph is made out to be the source of all that is bad about this team.

The guy actually had 12 pts and 9 asts. Its of interest to note that the only long winning streak we had was when Steph was playing his game and calling plays. When LB loosened the reigns on Steph and he was allowed to do all that he can then this team was an offensive powerhouse. IF you look at the stats below during the streak you'll see that his rebounds and steals were up as well as his own scoring and assists. The only reason his assists weren't always high, was due to Q and JC not hitting like they should. Imagine how this team would look with a healthy H2O instead of the deadfish Q missing shot after shot.

Jan. 2 - vs. Suns 32 pts -10 asts -5 reb - 1 stl
Jan. 6 - vs. Wiz 16 pts -11 asts -2 reb - 1 stl
Jan. 8 - vs Sonics 23 pts -15 asts -1 reb - 4 stl
Jan. 10 vs. Cavs 22 pts - 5 asts - 5 reb
Jan. 11 vs. Mavs 28 pts - 6 asts - 4 reb
Jan. 13 vs Hawks 19 pts - 9 asts - 5 reb - 4 stl
Jan. 15 vs. Raptors 18 pts - 13 asts - 3 reb - LOSS
Jan. 16 vs. TWolves 20 pts - 5 asts Shoulder Injury
Jan. 25 vs Kings 22 pts - 6 asts - 5 reb

LB should've learned one thing from this stretch. If he lets his best player PLAY, the whole team BENEFITS. LB wants to make it seem like you can't win playing with Steph's style, but really that's not true. All LB needed to concentrate on what the team D, but even there he failed the team. WHY has LB not let this team use the zone from time to time in games? He could have tried different zones to see how effective the team could be, but he's NEVER allowed the team to try them out. Plenty of poor defensive teams have used them against us this year, but the Knicks... LB would rather let teams kills us off the dribble every game. Case in point is a game against the Raptors, where we're clearly not able to handle Bosh's quickness. We could've used the zone to take away his advantage.
martin
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3/27/2006  11:48 AM
Posted by nixluva:

I really can't say that i'm surprised that AGAIN Steph is made out to be the source of all that is bad about this team.

Again, you are the only one saying that Steph is made out to be the source of all that is bad about this team.

Really, find any post on this site - even just one - that says Steph is the sole reason for the team's failure.

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TMS
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3/27/2006  12:36 PM
doesn't matter what you say to these guys... they like to make generalizations & label people for posting an observation... unless you make a positive comment about his talent & ability (which has never been the question here), or if you criticize Marbury in anyway, you're a hater, even though his heart & leadership is what we're all questioning here... i guess it's not possible for anyone to have a criticism of him w/o being card carrying members of the He-man Marbury haters club.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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