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SOMEWHERE PISTONS OWNER BILL DAVIDSON IS SMILING...
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djsunyc
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3/16/2006  3:08 PM
Posted by oohah:
i bet you if you swapped lb and pop, the spurs would run pretty much the same way. the spurs can go inside out b/c they have duncan. we tried that but we have curry. the spurs have excellent defense to allow them to have some fast breaks. we don't. the spurs have manu and parker. we don't. how can you say lb doesn't coach anywhere like pop - they don't have the same personnel.

but if they did, i bet you it would look eerily similar.

I bet if you swapped Popovich and a lot of coaches the Spurs would be great. Popovich is a good coach, but I don't think for a minute that he is the determining factor in that team's greatness. Tim Duncan is.

oohah

just like shaq and kobe were in la la land...but they didn't win either until phil got there.

you're really minimilizing a coach's impact towards building a long term foundation for a team. this is all going to pay off two years from now. and i'm cool with that b/c i don't need the instant gratification of a few wins here and there. i want a team built that will compete for the title and i believe the foundation for building a team like that is being laid.

all those dnp's to david lee looks like they're paying off now, aren't they?
how about nate getting benched after the dunk contest? kind of made him a little hungrier too, no?

but the first reaction is "WTF wasn't lee playing all this time?" - WHO CARES. he's playing now and he's taking his spot on the team.

i'm beginning to believe that everyone that is so anti-larry brown really does have a problem with old-school PROVEN ways of thinking and discipline and are looking for instant gratification and more "fun" than eyes on the ultimate goal. and all those calling for brown's head would have ZERO patience for a real rebuild.
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martin
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3/16/2006  3:10 PM
Posted by oohah:
Pop was LB's understudy. Same system. Oh, and Pop used to rip Parker a new one about once a month in his first year or so.

I know Popovich was LB's protege, but he has his own system, and moreoever, he has adapted his style to his players as they have changed. For example San Antonio does believe in running even though they are an excellent half-court team.

I remember Popovich remarking on Parker, but I don't remember him saying anything as offensive about Parker as LB. In any case, it doesn't make it right.

oohah

Each of LB and Pop preach defense, teamwork, sharing the ball. LB has even said he doesn't mind running, but you gotta do those first few things first.

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martin
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3/16/2006  3:12 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

all those dnp's to david lee looks like they're paying off now, aren't they?
how about nate getting benched after the dunk contest? kind of made him a little hungrier too, no?

but the first reaction is "WTF wasn't lee playing all this time?" - WHO CARES. he's playing now and he's taking his spot on the team.

i'm beginning to believe that everyone that is so anti-larry brown really does have a problem with old-school PROVEN ways of thinking and discipline and are looking for instant gratification and more "fun" than eyes on the ultimate goal. and all those calling for brown's head would have ZERO patience for a real rebuild.

now we are talkin'. I almost cry when someone brings up those DNPs as a reason that Brown is bad.
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islesfan
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3/16/2006  3:19 PM
Somewhere the entire Phoenix Suns franchise is laughing hysterically.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
djsunyc
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3/16/2006  3:21 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Somewhere the entire Phoenix Suns franchise is laughing hysterically.

replace pheonix suns with chicago bulls and it still works!!!

pretty soon, replace pheonix suns with orlando magic and toronto raptors and it'll work too!!!
islesfan
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3/16/2006  3:29 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by islesfan:

Somewhere the entire Phoenix Suns franchise is laughing hysterically.

replace pheonix suns with chicago bulls and it still works!!!

pretty soon, replace pheonix suns with orlando magic and toronto raptors and it'll work too!!!

Yeah I thought about mentioning them as well but you know me, I don't like to pile on like that.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Nalod
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3/16/2006  3:37 PM
Why did Davidson give Larry Permission to talk to Cleveland? What owner in there right mind does this?

Davidson was concerned about Larrys ability to coach if his health was bad and if he could dump his contract he knew he had flip in the wings.

Owners don't pay $7mil for a coach to walk unless they messed it up?

Davidson messed up. He only cared about larrys time on the bench, not if he was unhealthy.

Davidson is not smiling, he is gritting about the money he has to pay out to larry and once in a while the zoloft helps him forget about it and the fact he has to answer to his minority owners for it!

And flip got Darko to play up also?

Flip is driving Larrys car this season. Lets see if he can drive it to the playoffs. And no, Miami is not better than last year!
[Edited by - nalod on 03-16-2006 3:38 PM]

[Edited by - nalod on 03-16-2006 3:40 PM]
oohah
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3/16/2006  3:38 PM
I don't completely buy into that. Coaches make a difference. The defining difference? Maybe not.

But look at the Kobe/Shaq Lakers before Jackson showed up. Or Jordan before Jackson showed up.

No one thought the Detroit team would come close to LA a couple of years back, even with a hurt Mailman.

Coaches make a difference, no doubt. But in the end, you have to have the players. Flip Saunders is doing pretty well isn't he?

I was happy Detroit beat Kobe and Shaq, but I don't think it would have been the cakewal it was if Malone hadn't been hurt.

you're really minimilizing a coach's impact towards building a long term foundation for a team. this is all going to pay off two years from now. and i'm cool with that b/c i don't need the instant gratification of a few wins here and there. i want a team built that will compete for the title and i believe the foundation for building a team like that is being laid.

No I'm not. I'm just saying that players are more important. Anyway, I don't see that IT or LB are really laying a foundation for the future, though I do understand as a Knick fan that we have to think positively.

I don't see that losing now is a sign that we will be better later. Or is it? Cause it would be hard to be worse than now so I guess getting better is a given.
all those dnp's to david lee looks like they're paying off now, aren't they?

No. Sorry DJ, but that makes no sense. I don't see how Lee's DNP's are responsible for him playing well now, especiallw since we all saw how he played so well duringthe 6 game win streak.

Lee is a talented player who should have been getting all of Rose's minutes all season. When Lee has played, he has produced more often than not going all the way back to the beginning of the season.
how about nate getting benched after the dunk contest? kind of made him a little hungrier too, no?

No. NR played with this same hunger all season. That is his charm.

but the first reaction is "WTF wasn't lee playing all this time?" - WHO CARES. he's playing now and he's taking his spot on the team.

I cares. Will you be saying the same thing when Brown yanks Lee's time again? Lee took his spot during the 6 game streak, and Brown took it away from him to play Malik Rose. The more Lee doesn't play the less he develops against real game competition.
i'm beginning to believe that everyone that is so anti-larry brown really does have a problem with old-school PROVEN ways of thinking and discipline and are looking for instant gratification and more "fun" than eyes on the ultimate goal. and all those calling for brown's head would have ZERO patience for a real rebuild.

I have never called for Brown's head. I am just tired of his antics. I am also tired of explanations of his doing things the right way that are gathered from the ashes of the worst season in the history of the Knicks franchise and his career.

oohah
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
fishmike
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3/16/2006  4:42 PM
you said yourself its the players first and foremost. Would you say this is the worst team Larry has ever taken over? Based on the results I would say yes.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
oohah
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3/16/2006  4:53 PM
you said yourself its the players first and foremost. Would you say this is the worst team Larry has ever taken over? Based on the results I would say yes.

Based on results I would say this is LB's worse coaching job ever.

Yes it is players first and foremost, I have written that time and again. But the coach has to get the best from a team. LB has not done that, in fact he has drawn out the worst in them.

While a coach can't make a team better wholesale with his presence, he can have a positive or negative impact. I see his impact this year as negative.

I don't know if this is LB's worst group, especially not from a talent standpoint. The bunch he took over in Philly was pretty bad.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 03-16-2006 4:54 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
holfresh
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3/16/2006  6:02 PM
Posted by simrud:

Ahm, hello? Are we talkin about promotions? I was under the impsression we were talkin about winning games! You care about how many snickers your team sells? I don't give a f@ck!

When it comes to winning its about coaching, not players. Players can be had anytime. Please start makin some sense man, instead of trying to change the subject to something completly irrelevant.

And just btw, college game is ALOT more intersting to watch sometimes then the lame pros playin out the strech of a pointless season. So they just might have something better then the NBA as far as who gets promoted.




No shot sport.....This game has always been about the Magics, Birds, Micheal, Isiah, Kareem,Hakeem...People come to Arenas across America to see players perform...They don't show up to see coaches coach..If your premise was correct, then the NBA would be as popular now as it was when Jordan was in the league...Phil Jackson is still coaching, Riles is still coaching, Brown is still coaching...

When Jordan left the game there was a void in basketball...People truly miss him..I was at the garden when he dropped 55 on my beloved Knicks in his first comeback...Who cared when Phil Jackson left the game...We won't care if he left again....I would give two hoots if Brown left...

If Shaq left, I would care...When AI is gone..we will all miss the guy with all the guts..Thats how it goes in the NBA...Players....Don't get me wrong...U also need good coaches to guide your ship..But you ship ain't sailing if you don't have the players to row you boat....
holfresh
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3/17/2006  2:30 PM
Excerps from Versey's article:


You would think Thomas also knew exactly what he was getting when he pursued Brown. He's been the same coach and the same person forever. No wonder I don't take issue with most of Marbury's observations!

Brown does cross the line when criticizing players, turning personnel problems personal in a heartbeat. He doesn't have to resort to authoring a hardcover to reveal confidential conversations, locker-room secrets and upper-management riffs. In fact, in an exceptionally, unstable, paranoid profession, Brown is easily its most insecure member.

Suspend Marbury for what, telling the truth? How could Thomas take that course of action without also suspending Brown, who has belittled and betrayed Marbury from day one?

Then again, how could Thomas suspend both of them without including himself for hiring a coach who loathed his lead player when they were in Athens for the '04 Olympics?

The same columnists who flogged Brown for the way he mishandled LeBron James, Carmello Anthony, Amare Stoudemire and others, the same journalists who called him out repeatedly for pointing fingers at his players, composed sonnets praising Thomas' hiring of Brown.

Tell me I didn't read Marbury should be suspended for questioning Brown's integrity!

Integrity? How often has Brown agreed to terms with his next team before leaving his present one? Just to backtrack one team: How long do you think Brown's agent, Joe Glass, was tampering/talking to Cavs owner Dan Gilbert or his people before the Pistons were approached about giving their permission?

Integrity? How do you think Brown induced Danny Manning to switch his commitment from North Carolina to Kansas by offering his father an assistant-coaching job? Why do you think there were so many people against UNC hiring him when Dean Smith retired?

Integrity? Brown says he always leaves teams in better shape than when he got there? Oh, really? When Brown left Kansas after winning the '88 NCAA title, the school was placed on probation. It's the only time a school was banned from defending its title.

Integrity? I have it on excellent authority, in the midst of Brown's East Hampton talks with Thomas and James Dolan he was hitting up on Chris Mullin, a Long Island summer neighbor, for the occupied Warriors job.

In the first, final and foremost analysis, Brown and Marbury came to the Knicks as advertised. The ingredients were clearly marked. So were the warnings. Yet Thomas put them together anyway.
islesfan
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3/17/2006  2:41 PM
Posted by holfresh:

Excerps from Versey's article:


You would think Thomas also knew exactly what he was getting when he pursued Brown. He's been the same coach and the same person forever. No wonder I don't take issue with most of Marbury's observations!

Brown does cross the line when criticizing players, turning personnel problems personal in a heartbeat. He doesn't have to resort to authoring a hardcover to reveal confidential conversations, locker-room secrets and upper-management riffs. In fact, in an exceptionally, unstable, paranoid profession, Brown is easily its most insecure member.

Suspend Marbury for what, telling the truth? How could Thomas take that course of action without also suspending Brown, who has belittled and betrayed Marbury from day one?

Then again, how could Thomas suspend both of them without including himself for hiring a coach who loathed his lead player when they were in Athens for the '04 Olympics?

The same columnists who flogged Brown for the way he mishandled LeBron James, Carmello Anthony, Amare Stoudemire and others, the same journalists who called him out repeatedly for pointing fingers at his players, composed sonnets praising Thomas' hiring of Brown.

Tell me I didn't read Marbury should be suspended for questioning Brown's integrity!

Integrity? How often has Brown agreed to terms with his next team before leaving his present one? Just to backtrack one team: How long do you think Brown's agent, Joe Glass, was tampering/talking to Cavs owner Dan Gilbert or his people before the Pistons were approached about giving their permission?

Integrity? How do you think Brown induced Danny Manning to switch his commitment from North Carolina to Kansas by offering his father an assistant-coaching job? Why do you think there were so many people against UNC hiring him when Dean Smith retired?

Integrity? Brown says he always leaves teams in better shape than when he got there? Oh, really? When Brown left Kansas after winning the '88 NCAA title, the school was placed on probation. It's the only time a school was banned from defending its title.

Integrity? I have it on excellent authority, in the midst of Brown's East Hampton talks with Thomas and James Dolan he was hitting up on Chris Mullin, a Long Island summer neighbor, for the occupied Warriors job.

In the first, final and foremost analysis, Brown and Marbury came to the Knicks as advertised. The ingredients were clearly marked. So were the warnings. Yet Thomas put them together anyway.

Yeah, that was all covered in the Vecsey article thread.

It is pretty interesting that you only posted the parts criticizing Brown and none of the parts criticizing Marbury. Great job of censorship on that one.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
holfresh
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3/17/2006  5:31 PM
Isle's that was intentional...Brown is the adult here...We all know that Steph is an idoit....Brown basically get a pass in this forum...Most people here ignore Brown exploits and only bury Steph...I like Steph but his behavior the last few days has been that of a moron...

Brown is not too far above that either...He has been a moron all season criticzing players in the press all year and think they will play hard for him...Frankly I'm with Vecsey, I would love to see all of them go and have the Knicks start over even with a bad salary cap...

When will you guys wake up and hold Brown accountable as well...When?

You guys have sold your souls in terms of integrity to win a championship...Brown can't deliver on his own...He needs players...But you guys think as long as Brown is on the sidelines that will be enough..Get this, he was such a great coach but never won a championship in 18 years of coaching before Detriot...18 years...He saw he could fit well with Detroit style of play and ran for it...





[Edited by - holfresh on 03-17-2006 5:39 PM]
Nalod
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3/17/2006  11:06 PM
Tonite Davidson is gritting his teeth...........

He paid Larry 7 million dollars and he just beat his team!

Thats some funny $hit right there!

"happy happy joy joy"!
Rich
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3/18/2006  12:04 AM
Davidson is Larry's bitch.
rojasmas
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3/18/2006  1:33 AM
Nalod, Larry drove Rick Carlisle's car. What's the point. These guys see a good situation and get on board.
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
Bobby
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3/18/2006  6:11 AM
with rip and sheed ejected brown found a way to get lucky on st. paddys' day.....whoopty-do

lucky for us and for the time being charlotte has the fewest wins in the nba
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
Nalod
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3/18/2006  8:13 AM
Posted by rojasmas:

Nalod, Larry drove Rick Carlisle's car. What's the point. These guys see a good situation and get on board.


No way! Take a 50 win team, add a malcontent like Rashweed and win a world championship is not that automatic! You make it seem easy.

Larry taught them to play defense. Larry took that team to a new level.

There is a big difference between what Flip is doing and what larry did. Flip took a great defensive team and opened up the offense just a bit. But "all" larry did was install a defense and take that team and forge a championship mentality.

Larrys knick team he took over was a disaster waiting to happen under any circumstances. His crime is trying to teach a bunch of overpaid undisciplined divas who have no on court leadership and green rookies to play it the right way. And its the rookies that are getting it first.

Now, is it the coach, or the players?

Its a bit of both.
holfresh
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3/18/2006  1:07 PM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by rojasmas:

Nalod, Larry drove Rick Carlisle's car. What's the point. These guys see a good situation and get on board.


No way! Take a 50 win team, add a malcontent like Rashweed and win a world championship is not that automatic! You make it seem easy.

Larry taught them to play defense. Larry took that team to a new level.

There is a big difference between what Flip is doing and what larry did. Flip took a great defensive team and opened up the offense just a bit. But "all" larry did was install a defense and take that team and forge a championship mentality.

Larrys knick team he took over was a disaster waiting to happen under any circumstances. His crime is trying to teach a bunch of overpaid undisciplined divas who have no on court leadership and green rookies to play it the right way. And its the rookies that are getting it first.

Now, is it the coach, or the players?

Its a bit of both.


That's a load of crap....Take the malcontent Rasheed?...He was the difference...The Pistons was 17-13 thru thr first 30 games...They won 54 games that season..At this point, Larry is a good coach but much of his rep now is hype....He is not the guru you guys make him out to be...I know I said this before,but before Detroit he coached 18 years without winning an NBA title, 18 years...

Now you replace him with Flip and although they haven't won anything yet..Flip is making it look easy....Now they are talking about winning 70 games...You guys are making it seems like with Larry on the sidelines, makes it automatic...So it must be the players and Isiah fault...Thats certainly not the case here...Larry have alot to do with how this team is playing now...And I'm hoping he didn't ruin the confident Channing Fyre we saw earlier this year...
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