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What Grade would you give Larry this season?
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martin
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2/25/2006  12:39 PM
Let me add one more thing... if MSG and Isiah had said that this team was rebuilding from sratch and they would be losing, it would be OK?

Well, from a fundamental basketball standpoint, Brown is doing exactly that. He is breakin these guys down (let keep with the anology: he is letting contracts expire and drafting) so that he can build it back up. He could be running and gunning (trading for high contract talent) for a few extra wins.
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EnySpree
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2/25/2006  12:40 PM
David Lee DNP's

Starting Ariza, Malik, and Davi Together

Starting guys based on hometowns?

Constantly bashing his players in the media. It's not even bashing....he was straight up disrespecting them.

Playing the right way? What exactly is that? Larry has always been willing to tweak what he does depending on the talent. What happened this year? What happened in the olympics for that matter?

I hate Larry....but like I said in another post....I'm willing to give him a clean slate now that he has Francis and Rose....He better not start Q-Rich again!!! at least until he can get his rythmn back.

The Knicks are a running team.....they showed that in spirts last night. Knicks need to think run at all times and just give the ball to Francis, Marbs and Rose in the half court when things get slowed down....Let Frye and Curry fit into what the others are doing and mix it up.


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SlimPack
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2/25/2006  12:43 PM
Posted by martin:

OK this is good. Everyone has a grade but no one - including myself - put any real criteria by which they are judging Brown. Maybe Fish did.

Let's see. Curry missed training camp and hadn't as much as gotten on a bike for 8 months. Q was injured during training camp. JJ was fat and still is. Marb has been hurt for a month now. 3 rooks. No one can hit an outside shot. No SF.

What is he supposed to do with that mess?

Brown has a particular style that he wants to play, just like Phil Jackson, Pop, VG, Avery and some others. He has a group of guys that have nary a clue to be able to play basketball no less that system.

Are these excuses or just plain fact? I guess that's in the beholder. Set rotations? who cares. Minutes? Rooks have been getting theirs.

Expectations set too high? Too low?

Brown talking too much with the media? We kill Layden for not talking to the media. The media will turn and twist anyone who does talk to them. So which do you want?

Also, I want to know who has been to the practices to be able to judge day in and day out what is happening and what is being taught versus what the PLAYERS are executing. Big freakin difference.

well I dont know about everyone else but the reason I didnt explain my grade is becuase Im lazy. Also Im thinking about changing my grade to a C- if eddy curry continues to start. well anyway, the reason I gave him this grade istead of say an f or something, is becuase even though I think LB has done a crappy job adjusting to his team, this team has some serious flaws in it to begin with, which I think also has contributed to our abyssmal record. eddy curry is lazy, and a slow learner. crawford has always been inconsistent even before brown, qrich, and malik rose have been fairly terrible througout the course of the season, and Im not even gonna mention JJ. and even stephon has character issues. so I dont blame it all on larry, but at the same time he just seems to never learn from his mistakes, it's not Isiah, or this roster's fault that LB doesnt play guys like david lee despite the fact that we are CLEARLY a better team with him on the floor, I dare say the same thing about nate robinson, but probably to a lesser degree than lee, but I think his energy and attitude would benift this team, and its been proven to do so, but as usual larry just doesnt learn.



[Edited by - SlimPack on 02-25-2006 12:49 PM]

[Edited by - SlimPack on 02-25-2006 12:50 PM]
holfresh
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2/25/2006  12:43 PM
Posted by martin:

Let me add one more thing... if MSG and Isiah had said that this team was rebuilding from sratch and they would be losing, it would be OK?

Well, from a fundamental basketball standpoint, Brown is doing exactly that. He is breakin these guys down (let keep with the anology: he is letting contracts expire and drafting) so that he can build it back up. He could be running and gunning (trading for high contract talent) for a few extra wins.



He is trading for high contracts, talent...what do you call the Franchise trade?

Only thing is there are no wins yet...

djsunyc
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2/25/2006  12:44 PM
hey, at the end of the day, for a GM, it's wins and losses. isiah gets an F in that department.
for coaches, wins and losses are important as well as player development and instilling a system. based on the results so far, if it was anyone else, they would get a D/F. but since it IS lb, and he's the only one that has a resume, you have to give him the benefit of the doubt FOR NOW so his grade is incomplete.

both those grades can change dramatically over the summer and into next season.
BigC
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2/25/2006  12:47 PM
Even if players were not hurt, Larry would have been playing around with our lineups. I guess people forgot when Larry was starting players based on their hometown and if it was their birthday. Does that sound like a person serious about winning.

People say Larry is a teacher and Motivator as a coach. So let's go with that.

If he is a teacher in the classroom and not one of his students show signs of being motivated or learning, would anyone say that teacher is doing a good job?

If Larry is a teacher then his students are not being taught. Therefore Larry has to come with a new lesson plan for a different group kids (players) every year. What every teacher should know is, you have to adjust your teaching style (playbook) with the group of students or players that are in your classroom or the team. You keep things that have work in the past and come up with new schemes and techniques to get your students or players motivated.

If Larry old plays are not working with this team he has to make the adjustment as any good teacher knows how to do. He was putting down this team before the season even started.

People forgot there were many games that Larry would play 12 guys in the first quarter. How can any team build chemistry like that?






[Edited by - BigC on 02-25-2006 12:50 PM]
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martin
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2/25/2006  12:50 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

hey, at the end of the day, for a GM, it's wins and losses. isiah gets an F in that department.

This past year Isiah drafted Lee, Frye, Nate and traded Ariza for Stevie and you give him an F?

So we can slate Jerry Colangelo an F for next year cause the Rators are pretty much gonna suck recordwise?

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martin
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2/25/2006  12:53 PM
Posted by BigC:

Even if players were not hurt, Larry would have been playing around with our lineups. I guess people forgot when Larry was starting players based on their hometown and if it was their birthday. Does that sound like a person serious about winning.

People say Larry is a teacher and Motivator as a coach. So let's go with that.

If he is a teacher in the classroom and not one of his students show signs of being motivated or learning, would anyone say that teacher is doing a good job?

If Larry is a teacher then his students are not being taught. Therefore Larry has to come with a new lesson plan for a different group kids (players) every year. What every teacher should know is, you have to adjust your teaching style (playbook) with the group of students or players that are in your classroom or the team. You keep things that have work in the past and come up with new schemes and techniques to get your students or players motivated.

If Larry old plays are not working with this team he has to make the adjustment as any good teacher knows how to do. He was putting down this team before the season even started.

People forgot there were many games that Larry would play 12 guys in the first quarter. How can any team build chemistry like that?

[Edited by - BigC on 02-25-2006 12:50 PM]

when do the players get called out for not playing? Or is it always the coach?
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djsunyc
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2/25/2006  12:58 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by djsunyc:

hey, at the end of the day, for a GM, it's wins and losses. isiah gets an F in that department.

This past year Isiah drafted Lee, Frye, Nate and traded Ariza for Stevie and you give him an F?

So we can slate Jerry Colangelo an F for next year cause the Rators are pretty much gonna suck recordwise?

and sof far out of all of those moves, we have frye and curry to show for it. but they are not winning yet nor can we say they will win. there is no cap flexibility in sight and chances of lottery picks for 3 of the next 5 years are gone. and of those players you mentioned, how many are gonna stay? as of RIGHT NOW, he gets an F. you go based on results and they speak for themselves. ANOTHER roster overhaul is needed and is on the way. the record is WORSE this year than last year.

if the raptors have a WORSE record next year, then colangelo gets an F. if the raptors do have a better record, and they probably will, then you judge what he's done then.
holfresh
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2/25/2006  12:58 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

hey, at the end of the day, for a GM, it's wins and losses. isiah gets an F in that department.
for coaches, wins and losses are important as well as player development and instilling a system. based on the results so far, if it was anyone else, they would get a D/F. but since it IS lb, and he's the only one that has a resume, you have to give him the benefit of the doubt FOR NOW so his grade is incomplete.

both those grades can change dramatically over the summer and into next season.



How is that possible?...If you can grade Isiah an F...then how does Larry not get an F?

The coach is responsible for wins and losses....The GM is graded on talent he assembles, how can you twist that? which is what everyone is doing......The coach has not done the job in any catagory that you think are important....But he has a resume, so it's ok.....

djsunyc
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2/25/2006  1:02 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by djsunyc:

hey, at the end of the day, for a GM, it's wins and losses. isiah gets an F in that department.
for coaches, wins and losses are important as well as player development and instilling a system. based on the results so far, if it was anyone else, they would get a D/F. but since it IS lb, and he's the only one that has a resume, you have to give him the benefit of the doubt FOR NOW so his grade is incomplete.

both those grades can change dramatically over the summer and into next season.



How is that possible?...If you can grade Isiah an F...then how does Larry not get an F?

The coach is responsible for wins and losses....The GM is graded on talent he assembles, how can you twist that? which is what everyone is doing......The coach has not done the job in any catagory that you think are important....But he has a resume, so it's ok.....


if this was isiah's first year as gm, he would've gotten an incomplete as well. but it's not, it's his 3rd trade deadline. if isiah built toronto into a powerhouse then he'd get more cred also. but he didn't. he's failed everywhere else he's been post playing career. that can not be ignored.

that's like applying for a job and them checking your references. if everyone they call said, this guy messed up, what are the chances they hire you? but if everyone says, he did a great job, it'll look crazy, but it worked out, then they'll hire you and wait and see, which is the case with LB.
holfresh
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2/25/2006  2:00 PM
A GM needs more time than a coach needs because you have to give him time to impliment his plan....Isiah at the moment is incomplete because the talent he assembled has not taken hold here...We don't know who Curry is, nor Frye or Lee for that matter....It's up to Brown to find out....So far, Brown has not been doing a goood job of that...He also has an imcomplete grade.....But if you are going to grade Isiah, then Larry gets one as well, even in half a season...No one could have done a worse job so far..No one....I want to give Larry time but he is making it really difficult...
McK1
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2/25/2006  2:17 PM
Posted by holfresh:

A GM needs more time than a coach needs because you have to give him time to impliment his plan....Isiah at the moment is incomplete because the talent he assembled has not taken hold here...We don't know who Curry is, nor Frye or Lee for that matter....It's up to Brown to find out....So far, Brown has not been doing a goood job of that...He also has an imcomplete grade.....But if you are going to grade Isiah, then Larry gets one as well, even in half a season...No one could have done a worse job so far..No one....I want to give Larry time but he is making it really difficult...


Isaiah has been here since 03 trading away picks and extending the cap hell.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
holfresh
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2/25/2006  2:36 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by holfresh:

A GM needs more time than a coach needs because you have to give him time to impliment his plan....Isiah at the moment is incomplete because the talent he assembled has not taken hold here...We don't know who Curry is, nor Frye or Lee for that matter....It's up to Brown to find out....So far, Brown has not been doing a goood job of that...He also has an imcomplete grade.....But if you are going to grade Isiah, then Larry gets one as well, even in half a season...No one could have done a worse job so far..No one....I want to give Larry time but he is making it really difficult...


Isaiah has been here since 03 trading away picks and extending the cap hell.



Yeah just 2 years...cap doesn't matter still.....What good if we are 60 mil if we can't sign anyone til 09-10...What is the difference?

JohnWallace44
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2/25/2006  2:37 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by JayNYC:

I'd grade him on different subjects..

I'd give him an A- for his attempts at teaching fundementals. Understanding that Defense wins championships.. and half court teams are generally more effective in th NBA.

I'd grade F- for willingness to play with the talent he's been given. This is a fast break, Uptempo style team.. we got players that have to pound the ball. Let them play like that... His stubborness/ or committment to Larry Ball (Whichever way you wanna say it ) has contributed to this teams miserable record.

I am down with these grades. Makes sense, and maybe even the A- is too high.


Wait, are you guys serious? Have you watched the games?
Fundamentals? We lead the league in TO's and Fouls.
Put a different name on this coach and he lasts about ten games. Tell me the last game when we weren't down 20 at some point. Probably can't remember. Now say that out loud, "I can't remember the last game where we weren't down 20."
This team could not be coached any worse.

Grade: F
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
oohah
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2/25/2006  2:37 PM
if this was isiah's first year as gm, he would've gotten an incomplete as well. but it's not, it's his 3rd trade deadline. if isiah built toronto into a powerhouse then he'd get more cred also. but he didn't. he's failed everywhere else he's been post playing career. that can not be ignored.

that's like applying for a job and them checking your references. if everyone they call said, this guy messed up, what are the chances they hire you? but if everyone says, he did a great job, it'll look crazy, but it worked out, then they'll hire you and wait and see, which is the case with LB.


Perhaps the LB signing was Isiah's worst signing. LB is a star who does not fit with this team. And if you think about it, wasn't the LB signing "Starphucing" as many call it around here?

oohah


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BigC
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2/25/2006  2:38 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by BigC:

Even if players were not hurt, Larry would have been playing around with our lineups. I guess people forgot when Larry was starting players based on their hometown and if it was their birthday. Does that sound like a person serious about winning.

People say Larry is a teacher and Motivator as a coach. So let's go with that.

If he is a teacher in the classroom and not one of his students show signs of being motivated or learning, would anyone say that teacher is doing a good job?

If Larry is a teacher then his students are not being taught. Therefore Larry has to come with a new lesson plan for a different group kids (players) every year. What every teacher should know is, you have to adjust your teaching style (playbook) with the group of students or players that are in your classroom or the team. You keep things that have work in the past and come up with new schemes and techniques to get your students or players motivated.

If Larry old plays are not working with this team he has to make the adjustment as any good teacher knows how to do. He was putting down this team before the season even started.

People forgot there were many games that Larry would play 12 guys in the first quarter. How can any team build chemistry like that?

[Edited by - BigC on 02-25-2006 12:50 PM]

when do the players get called out for not playing? Or is it always the coach?

Good point Martin.

I just feel everyone should be blamed. We as fans tend criticize the players and Isiah more than Larry.
I do blame the players also, but we do hear more of the players getting blame rather than Larry. Larry is getting paid like 10 mil to be a difference maker. I have been hard on the players in the past, but I think Larry also needs his share of blame.



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McK1
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2/25/2006  3:06 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by holfresh:

A GM needs more time than a coach needs because you have to give him time to impliment his plan....Isiah at the moment is incomplete because the talent he assembled has not taken hold here...We don't know who Curry is, nor Frye or Lee for that matter....It's up to Brown to find out....So far, Brown has not been doing a goood job of that...He also has an imcomplete grade.....But if you are going to grade Isiah, then Larry gets one as well, even in half a season...No one could have done a worse job so far..No one....I want to give Larry time but he is making it really difficult...


Isaiah has been here since 03 trading away picks and extending the cap hell.



Yeah just 2 years...cap doesn't matter still.....What good if we are 60 mil if we can't sign anyone til 09-10...What is the difference?


so do you believe that there were no draft picks who could've guided NY to 50 wins in 2 seasons?

and 07 when all Layden's contracts expire - free agents Bosh Wade James Melo for starters
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
jaydh
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2/25/2006  3:07 PM
Posted by McK1:

and 07 when all Layden's contracts expire - free agents Bosh Wade James Melo for starters

do you really think any of those guys are going anywhere?

McK1
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2/25/2006  3:14 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by McK1:

and 07 when all Layden's contracts expire - free agents Bosh Wade James Melo for starters

do you really think any of those guys are going anywhere?

can you say for certainty they are not?
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
What Grade would you give Larry this season?

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