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Why Isiah Thomas should be the leader in acquisitions
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holfresh
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2/20/2006  5:30 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

misterearl you are on a tangent!

OK, let me ask you, do you feel isiah kind of Fd up that curry trade just a tad?

yeah, yah, I know curry once in the evry 25 year player yadayada

but seriously don't you think that Isiah scrwed the team's own intersts by not relenting to give up a Trevor Ariza to save thos epicks--or even more so--just being a tad more patient and saying--here is Sweetney Thomas a lottery protected #1 to 10 2 number 2s and 3mm$? No swingy-dingy changeover in 07 and for goodness sakes a little downside insurance on a 33 win team for a player that didnt sign in FA with any team for any dollars and was offerd 20mm$ from the Bulls to retire? I mean its a pretty big FU--dont you agree--where was Curry going? If this ends up being a Rudy gay/Adam Morrison and one of the few frontcourt superstuds of 07 isnt that a tad to much? You think Trevor or David Lee or both are in the same hemisphere as Adam Morrison--yeah I know he didnt play a lick of summer league, but my bet is th 30 points a game at 6-8 shooting 53% isnt luck


Dude, If you think Curry is a once in 25 year kind of player then you have no agruement....
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BRIGGS
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2/20/2006  5:30 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Knight:
Posted by Marv:

Curry cost us likely a top 3 pick this year and God only knows how high a pick next year. If you're giving that up for a player, yoiu better be damn sure he's gonna lead you WAY out of the lottery.

Curry will lead us out of the lottery quicker than Adam Morrison or Rudy Gay would.


OK would Curry AND Morrison or Gay do it faster? comprende?


By the way a 1-2 pick could= a Jermaine Oneal-- think about it
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Marv
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2/20/2006  5:30 PM
Posted by Knight:
Posted by Marv:
Posted by Knight:
Posted by Marv:

Curry cost us likely a top 3 pick this year and God only knows how high a pick next year. If you're giving that up for a player, yoiu better be damn sure he's gonna lead you WAY out of the lottery.

Curry will lead us out of the lottery quicker than Adam Morrison or Rudy Gay would.

I'm not convinced of that. Plus you got the pick NEXT year too, don't forget.

Adam Morrison or Rudy Gay would make us a playoff team next year?! Is this with Frye or James at center? I am aware and there is no way we will be this bad next year.

Maybe TThomas and Mike Sweetney would have been dealt for a different guy who could have played center. Plus Morrison could be just the kind of guy to come in and provide the outside shooting for this team.
Knight
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2/20/2006  5:31 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Knight:
Posted by Marv:

Curry cost us likely a top 3 pick this year and God only knows how high a pick next year. If you're giving that up for a player, yoiu better be damn sure he's gonna lead you WAY out of the lottery.

Curry will lead us out of the lottery quicker than Adam Morrison or Rudy Gay would.


OK would Curry AND Morrison or Gay do it faster? comprende?

I get it, but you are still assuming that Chicago does that deal. Anyway, what's done is done, I'm glad we have Curry and Jalen and the #1 more than a top 3 pick.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
djsunyc
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2/20/2006  5:31 PM
just looking at it objectively, we gave up those picks b/c isiah thought that bringing curry aboard was adding a MAJOR piece right now. expectations were the playoffs, hence why there was no protection (but there should've been protection anyway, but that's another post). so far, we have severely underperformed and have failed to live up to expectations. i don't think anyone can argue that point.

so, it WAS the curry deal that did cost us a chance at a top lottery pick this year. that's just a fact b/c we gave up that pick for eddy.

b/c of the way we were playing and our lack of pick, we went after jalen rose, moreso for the pick, than the player so we aren't left holding our d ck in our hands on draft night. i expect one or both of those picks to be moved as well.

i'm not sure what to think anymore. all i know is that either milli and vanilli make nice nice, or dolan has to pick one, or neither. but that's more important than ANY move we make right now.
Knight
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2/20/2006  5:35 PM
Our season tanked early on because Stephon was trying to outwit Larry Brown, playing and acting like a jackass.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
misterearl
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2/20/2006  5:43 PM
Knight - our season tanked from day one because Larry has reduced it to an extended training camp with scheduled exhibition games ... and the moment the light bulb came on in Marbury's head he was injured

The regular season starts in March
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crzymdups
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2/20/2006  5:45 PM
bottom line: Zeke took a big risk that adding Larry Brown, three nice rookies and three starters from 50 win teams to Marbury and Crawford would equal playoffs.

we can rehash all the reasons why it didn't work again and again, but I don't think it was a terrible risk. top three protection would've been nice, but I swear I read somewhere that he couldn't put protection on the picks because it would interfere with the protection on the pick still owed to the Suns, which has descending protection starting this year.
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djsunyc
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2/20/2006  5:47 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

bottom line: Zeke took a big risk that adding Larry Brown, three nice rookies and three starters from 50 win teams to Marbury and Crawford would equal playoffs.

we can rehash all the reasons why it didn't work again and again, but I don't think it was a terrible risk. top three protection would've been nice, but I swear I read somewhere that he couldn't put protection on the picks because it would interfere with the protection on the pick still owed to the Suns, which has descending protection starting this year.

i think the protection owed to utah (via the suns) was something like top 25 protected this year, top 24 in 2007, top 23 in 2008, top 22 in 2009, and unprotected in 2010.

if that's true, then top 10 protection does effect it.
holfresh
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2/20/2006  5:50 PM
Posted by Knight:

Our season tanked early on because Stephon was trying to outwit Larry Brown, playing and acting like a jackass.



That accounts for about 10 games...who you gonna balme the other 72 on?
Knight
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2/20/2006  5:51 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Knight:

Our season tanked early on because Stephon was trying to outwit Larry Brown, playing and acting like a jackass.

That accounts for about 10 games...who you gonna balme the other 72 on?

How many games in was it that he had like no points, no boards, no assists...
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
crzymdups
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2/20/2006  5:52 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by crzymdups:

bottom line: Zeke took a big risk that adding Larry Brown, three nice rookies and three starters from 50 win teams to Marbury and Crawford would equal playoffs.

we can rehash all the reasons why it didn't work again and again, but I don't think it was a terrible risk. top three protection would've been nice, but I swear I read somewhere that he couldn't put protection on the picks because it would interfere with the protection on the pick still owed to the Suns, which has descending protection starting this year.

i think the protection owed to utah (via the suns) was something like top 25 protected this year, top 24 in 2007, top 23 in 2008, top 22 in 2009, and unprotected in 2010.

if that's true, then top 10 protection does effect it.

I don't know, maybe there's a rule that you can't put two levels of protection or something, I'll try to find the article.

but, hey, this season is a cluster f!ck of injuries and adjusting to Larry Brown.

my question: does the fact that this season imploded mean that this group of players can't ever function together? I'd like to watch the rest of the season with hopefully no major injuries to see. A consistent lineup that's mostly healthy and getting consistent minutes from Brown is something we haven't seen all season.
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crzymdups
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2/20/2006  5:53 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Knight:

Our season tanked early on because Stephon was trying to outwit Larry Brown, playing and acting like a jackass.



That accounts for about 10 games...who you gonna balme the other 72 on?

we haven't even played the final 35 or so yet, and in case you missed it Marbury has been out for about the last 17.
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nyk4ever
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2/20/2006  5:56 PM
I'm not into looking back and dwelling on IT not giving up Lee or Ariza to keep the #1 pick but since we're talking about...

Isiah would have been MUCH MUCH MUCH smarter then giving up Adam Morrison. Instead of giving up Trevor Ariza or David Lee in the deal(who have not helped the Knicks win more games) we are giving up Adam Morrison.... that's not good and thats just fact.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 02-20-2006 5:57 PM]
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djsunyc
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2/20/2006  5:58 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by crzymdups:

bottom line: Zeke took a big risk that adding Larry Brown, three nice rookies and three starters from 50 win teams to Marbury and Crawford would equal playoffs.

we can rehash all the reasons why it didn't work again and again, but I don't think it was a terrible risk. top three protection would've been nice, but I swear I read somewhere that he couldn't put protection on the picks because it would interfere with the protection on the pick still owed to the Suns, which has descending protection starting this year.

i think the protection owed to utah (via the suns) was something like top 25 protected this year, top 24 in 2007, top 23 in 2008, top 22 in 2009, and unprotected in 2010.

if that's true, then top 10 protection does effect it.

I don't know, maybe there's a rule that you can't put two levels of protection or something, I'll try to find the article.

but, hey, this season is a cluster f!ck of injuries and adjusting to Larry Brown.

my question: does the fact that this season imploded mean that this group of players can't ever function together? I'd like to watch the rest of the season with hopefully no major injuries to see. A consistent lineup that's mostly healthy and getting consistent minutes from Brown is something we haven't seen all season.

well, it looks like this season is turning out to be a showcase for lb. he's doing what he's doing...and i'm not sure what that is...but he's finding out who are his guys and who aren't. marbury getting hurt, AD going into the stands, hey man, everything happens for a reason. time will tell how it all plays out.

but just by looking at our team, we really don't have any defensive presence ANYWHERE on the court. q1 has been playing some nice individual d but outside of that, guards are penetrating at will and big man don't alter any shots. our center averages about 6-7 boards a game and the doubts about him during his first 3 years in the league haven't been alleviated.

there are still major questions, and you would've thought 50 games would be enough to answer them...but to us, i don't think any of us know what to think. but i DO think lb knows who he wants to keep. so now, we just all sit back and see what they do. even if we think they should let them play out the season with the same squad doesn't mean they will.
crzymdups
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2/20/2006  5:59 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I'm not into looking back and dwelling on IT not giving up Lee or Ariza to keep the #1 pick but since we're talking about...

Isiah would have been MUCH MUCH MUCH smarter then giving up Adam Morrison. Instead of giving up Trevor Ariza or David Lee in the deal(who have not helped the Knicks win more games) we are giving up Adam Morrison.... that's not good and thats just fact.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 02-20-2006 5:57 PM]

it's not fact, because NO ONE outside of Paxson and Zeke know what was on the table. Briggs and others like to pretend it's fact to make themselves feel worse, but how do we know the trade wasn't Lee/Ariza and the picks? don't say we do because we absolutely don't.

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Knight
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2/20/2006  5:59 PM
Dec 28th was the Orlando game where Marbury didn't make a field goal, had 3 assists, and 2 rebounds in 40 minutes. That was the 27th game of the season. After that game he got roasted by the media and finally decided to stop pouting.

[Edited by - knight on 02-20-2006 5:59 PM]
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
crzymdups
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2/20/2006  6:02 PM
Posted by djsunyc:


well, it looks like this season is turning out to be a showcase for lb. he's doing what he's doing...and i'm not sure what that is...but he's finding out who are his guys and who aren't. marbury getting hurt, AD going into the stands, hey man, everything happens for a reason. time will tell how it all plays out.

but just by looking at our team, we really don't have any defensive presence ANYWHERE on the court. q1 has been playing some nice individual d but outside of that, guards are penetrating at will and big man don't alter any shots. our center averages about 6-7 boards a game and the doubts about him during his first 3 years in the league haven't been alleviated.

there are still major questions, and you would've thought 50 games would be enough to answer them...but to us, i don't think any of us know what to think. but i DO think lb knows who he wants to keep. so now, we just all sit back and see what they do. even if we think they should let them play out the season with the same squad doesn't mean they will.

We don't have a defensive anchor, nothing like say Detroit, but most teams don't these days. I actually think the main thing that's been killing our defense has been turnovers. How many times do we blow close games in third quarter with a string of 3 or 4 TOs in a row that lead to fastbreaks for the other team?

And, hey, unfortunately 50 games haven't been enough because Marbury has been out for the last 16 or so of them and QRich and Curry weren't up to speed before late December. We can call that excuses all we want, but I think we all underestimated how long it takes for teams to learn to play together. Injuries and Brown's stubborness have only exacerbated that.
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misterearl
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2/20/2006  6:12 PM
>>Maybe TThomas and Mike Sweetney would have been dealt for a different guy who could have played center.

Like who?

>>Plus Morrison could be just the kind of guy to come in and provide the outside shooting for this team.

Then again. Morrison could be just another slightly better-than-average dude

How is his defense against an NBA calibre forward?
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holfresh
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2/20/2006  6:18 PM
Posted by Knight:

Dec 28th was the Orlando game where Marbury didn't make a field goal, had 3 assists, and 2 rebounds in 40 minutes. That was the 27th game of the season. After that game he got roasted by the media and finally decided to stop pouting.

[Edited by - knight on 02-20-2006 5:59 PM]



Well in gme 10...Marbs 27 pts 8 asst....Game 12 Marbs 33 pts 6 asst....game 28 Marbs 28 pts 6 rebs...game 29 Marbs 32 pts 10 asst....

What is exactly your point?
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