Posted by djsunyc:

hear me out. i'm not saying we dump him. but we should seriously explore what we can get for him.

why am i saying this now? why am i already giving up on him?

i say this b/c to be a legitimate title contender, we need to have a defensively capable frontcourt. a frontcourt that can board and play defense. IF our building blocks are frye and curry, then the chances of having a defensively capable frontcourt are slim. that is my premise and belief and if you go by that, then one of them have to go.

my choice? eddy curry. and it's an easy choice for me.

and it comes down to work ethic, being in shape, and mental acumen. two of those are questionable for eddy and one is non-existent.

this kid is 23 and is in 5th year here. it's a tough choice...tough tough choice but there are some bad signs that i'm not so sure will get fixed. i think lb, aguirre, and herb spend alot of time with him and when it comes to the game, he just keeps making the same mental errors (mainly offensive fouls). those three coaches probably just look at each other in disbelief.

lb wants a defensive big man. his last two teams had ben wallace and theo ratliff. eddy curry is the antithesis of it. you kind of get the feeling that lb doesn't like him either. not to mention his lack of rebounding. it's downright pathetic for a guy his size.

so we should throw out feelers and see what we can get for him. and if we can't move him, that's fine too, he's still a good player at that position, one where we have an advantage more nights than not but i don't think a frye/curry frontcourt is one of championship aspirations. i'm looking at a swap for a guy like dalembert. if that's a possibility, i'm pulling the trigger on it.

I think the attraction of K-mart gives that toughness with a perimeter shot. Marry him up to curry and you have something.

Its also easier to find a defensive stopper than the talents eddy has.

LOok to compliment eddy.

Eddy is a risk. Lets look at some positives:

He has been gettting healthier, and passing it back out. Maybe his defense is getting better but we just can't see it yet. maybe the errors he is making is part of the "progress" that comes with a stepped up effort.

Yeah, wee need better defense. No doubt.

good responses from everyone. it's not a knee jerk reaction by me, nor am i impatient. i'm happy we have a frye/curry potential frontcourt. but i just fail to see where the defense is coming from. q1 (when he gets minutes) outrebounds both. chris paul and tj ford almost are on par with them also. frye, with the minutes he gets, is a better rebounder than curry. so it comes down to whether or not curry and/or frye can develop into a defensive frontcourt? when i look at rebounding and defense, i think it's something that comes from within. guys like dwight howard at age 20 is already grabbing 12 a game. dalembert, who weighs about 50 lbs less than curry is grabbing 10+ a game. it's just something that comes from within for the most part. and curry doesn't exhibit any of that. there was a play vs. toronto where either peterson or james beat their man off the dribble and drove right to a wide open basket. curry was standing right underneath the rim and they went right at him and scored EASILY. curry just stood there. he jumped and made a weak attempt at a block but he didn't effect anything. i see that as very troubling.

offensively, i think curry will be OK. i think he benefits alot b/c of our guards. he does get tripled teamed and now that he's starting to kick it out of the post, our entire offense should benefit.

so it's cool if we keep him, but i also don't think he's "untouchable" or at least as "untouchable" as frye. shop him and see what his value is. i think by playing this year, his health concerns would be somewhat alleviated, especially with the kind of contract we gave him (based on some incentives). alot of teams would be interested now. so see what's available. before the summer began, out of all the young centers, i wanted dalemebert the most (and i think lb loves him and sees him as a 2k6 version of a young theo ratliff). another possibility is someone like pryzbilla (i don't know, s&t pryz + miles for curry). whatever the case, or whomever we move him for, it has to be for a defensive minded center.

of course, there would have to be subsequent moves but you get the gist of what i'm saying.

nalod - kmart is looking to be dumped by denver. i only make the deal if it ONLY costs us penny or mo + filler. no picks, no rooks. denver is desperate and we should be in the driver's seat.

You Big Dummy

>Curry is dumb b/c he has low bball iq and is lazy.

>Frye is dumb b/c he's a rookie..

bobs3304 - is Lee dumb b/c he is a rookie as well?

What is your measure of low basketball IQ? Who passes that test? Who fails?

Secondarily, you never responded to my question regarding what qualified you to make such a statement about someone else, someone you've never talked with or met I might add, being dumb?

>>do you know what I think? I think larry wants to play uptempo, but the players just dont do it.

Know what I thing Slim, I think if players were trusted to push the ball or discover their playing style as a cohesive team, they would not look to the sideline for the play call as much...

... nor would you have a revolving door of lineups from minute to minute.

But that's just me.

Oh, I almost forgot, bobs3304 - until you can provide any rationale or cogent facts behind your reckless, arbitrary, random and scattershot opinion on basketball intelligence - I must conclude that you sir, are dumb.

[Edited by - MisterEarl on 02-18-2006 12:30 PM]

>>by all means, keep the trades alive

Definately, Isiah Thomas has shown the courage and peresistence to make the unexpected deal.

Who expected Larry Brown this time last year?

Who expected Frye to be a baller? A few.

Who expected Lee to ba a baller? Almost no one.

Who expected Quentin to have such tragedy and pain in his season? Nobody.

Who forecast Mister Durability, Marbury, getting injured?

Nobody.

I just can't figure out why people resent his aggressive nature with regard to making changes until he and Larry succeed?

i say this b/c to be a legitimate title contender, we need to have a defensively capable frontcourt. a frontcourt that can board and play defense. IF our building blocks are frye and curry, then the chances of having a defensively capable frontcourt are slim. that is my premise and belief and if you go by that, then one of them have to go.

I think it is too early to say Frye won't be a good defender. As far as boarding, aren't we still near the top team wise? Curry has shown flashes of improvement.

But, the key to us being a title contender is having our youth develop & adding a serious, super star talent, someone of Lebron, Duncan, Shaq's stature. The best way to do that is with high draft picks and ours are going to chicago. We have no hope of adding this missing piece until 2008.

I'd try to get Orlando's pick in 2008 for taking on francis or Denver's unrestricted 2008 for taking on K-Mart- those are the kinds of deals we should be doing- trying to position ourselves in that year to get as many high picks as possible.

do you know what I think? I think larry wants to play uptempo, but the players just dont do it.

Sorry Slimpack, I think you're wrong about that. All young players like to run. It's what they do. The rookies came from programs that love to run.

In addition, Berman reported in the post yesterday that the players are sick of LB making them play slow.

Unless you were referring to Rose and the departed AD? I bet even they would like to run. It's just that LB was designing his game plan for them, rather than the rest of the team for some reason.

LB is well documented as having a strong preference for half-court ball.

The Knicks CAN play Frye (not so slow, as demonstrated last night) Lee (not slow and a decent ball handler) and Qyntel (better balhandler and the intuition to create plays with his court vision and willingness to pass) in the frontcourt. Curry is not the lazy slug people want to typecast him as. Jackie Butler is 20, with agility (good hands) and hostility (blocked shots)

You are right. The Knicks can push the ball quite effectively when given the opportunity.

In fact, that is exactly what they were doing during the 6 game win streak. Also LB played a consistent lineup during that span.

You did not mention that Marbury, Crawford, and Robinson especially, are all fast players who excel in open court. Ariza should be more effective in that playing style. Q has already been proven in a fast-paced game. I don't see Rose as slow at all (I know it wasn't you who said that.). In any case, you don't have to be super-fast to play an effective uptempo game. You need a certain amount of athletic ability and the Knicks have ample athletes.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 02-18-2006 2:34 PM]

can you link to the article that berman said that, cuase I may have missed it.

http://ultimateknicks.com/ Second article down on the right.

It is Marc Berman, but it sounds true.

anyway the reason I say that is because I've noticed multiple occasions where brown is sreaming at crawford to push the ball up the court but crawford for whatever reason doesnt do it. mike breen noticed it too.

Larry may have wanted them to move the ball up in certain specific game situations.

But just look at this group of players. Do you think they want to play slow-down half court ball?

Not likely in my opinion.

oohah

When do you expect his value to be higher?

It's not impossible but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting. If I got an offer of Dalembert for Curry, I'd do the deal right away

Posted by bobs3304:

Posted by misterearl:

>>Curry and Frye both have the same issues -- lack of rebounding and defense. Only difference is that Frye is a rookie, has a good work ethic, and isn't nearly as dumb.

bobs3304 - what makes Eddy Curry "dumb" in your opinion?


Some form of quantitative testing I hope.

Based on the grammatical structure of your statement you are also implying that Frye is ALSO dumb. Just that Eddy Curry is "dumber".

Might I inquire what qualifies you to make such a judgement?


[Edited by - MisterEarl on 02-18-2006 09:13 AM]

[Edited by - MisterEarl on 02-18-2006 09:14 AM]

Curry is dumb b/c he has low bball iq and is lazy.

Frye is dumb b/c he's a rookie...

Seriously how do you guys figure that Curry and Frye are dumb??....Tell me what you look at during the games that you are able to identify these traits that guys like myself are able to miss on a given night...What are the defensive sets that they usually play out of position that you catch that I am completely missing....I read these post to hear that Lee and Bogut are now smart players...
Other than the obvious, really, Is that what it comes down to? Is it that simple to determine who is smart and who is dumb?

Rich was right though, his value is too low, the only logical thing to do is give him time to develop, since even though I have kind of soured on him lately, I have to admit that he has shown signs of progress, for example he's been passing out of the post more lately, and had 4 blocks in a game recently. I just hope it all comes together for him relatively soon.