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The more things change the more they stay the same with Isiah
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misterearl
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2/6/2006  10:34 PM
>>If I think Isiah sucks more than Layden it doesn't mean that Layden didn't suck.

Hold up, if Layden sucks and Isiah sucks, does that mean that Larry Brown sucks as well or is there someone that does NOT suck who would be sucking less than Isiah and Layden combined?

Now i'm confused.

what crzymdups said

We have guys with their best years AHEAD of them silly boy

Looking forward to Jalen and Stephon in the big backcourt, hitting Qyntel on the wing for a jumper as sweet as Houston's. (check the fg percentage)

Frye and Curry receiving the ball in better position and deeper.

Crawford as sixth man.

Enjoy the Ride
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jaydh
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2/6/2006  10:34 PM
Posted by islesfan:

$34MM for the 22nd pick of the draft in a year where there is little depth after the first 8-10 picks. And it was nice to see Jalen Rose play over 40 minutes while the young players that we're supposed to be developing in this alleged rebuilding scam, uh I mean plan, are glued to the bench.

season is over, denver is set at #22, didnt know the season was less than 60 games now. young players need to learn from vets, thats what jalen is for. the rookies are still learning and growing, they dont need 30minutes a night to learn at this stage.

Posted by islesfan:

What he's doing now and what he's supposedly looking to do before the trade deadling is exactly why he needed to be fired last week. He's going to make as many riduculous trades as he can find just to make it look like he's doing something.

again the rose trade has no effect on anything except dolan, and it was dolan that gave him the green light.
Posted by islesfan:

I'd rather have a $85MM payroll with all your draft picks than $125MM and no shot at a lottery pick in 3 of the next 5 years.

what a weak argument... with 76mil coming off the books in the next 2 years, isiah could very well have the payroll below $85mil.
islesfan
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2/6/2006  10:34 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by misterearl:

Counterpoint

“I understand that winning is a process,” added Rose. “I learned that when I was young, watching how the Bulls had to take their lumps. It was the same with the Lakers and the Celtics. You don’t just come in and be a great team overnight. Getting that camaraderie with the guys, getting a set lineup, a set rotation, guys being familiar with one another, people sacrificing for each other, that takes time. Normally, you don’t get that job done in the first year and a half.”

when there's a roster overhaul over 6 months, with another major trade looming, how are they supposed to get familiar with one another? or are you convinced that this is the roster we're going to stick with for a little bit?

DJ, who do you think wants roster moves more right now: Isiah or Larry Brown? I'm asking seriously. I think Larry has asked for vets.

Yeah, because Isiah's M.O. is standing pat and not making trades.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
crzymdups
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2/6/2006  10:35 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by jaydh:

how is acquiring Jalen ignoring the salary cap? oh yea, i forgot about all that caproom we would have had if we just let AD expire... nice try.

Hmmm, lower our cap number by $13MM or extend it another year by $17MM. That's a $30MM swing.

oh wait, I know, how about turning Ewing's $20 million expiring deal into $85 million to Shandon Anderson, Howard Eisley and Luc Longley! Man, I bet you miss Layden.

Yeah, like that's the point. Funny but I don't remember EVER saying that I missed Layden or anything remotely like that. If I think Isiah sucks more than Layden it doesn't mean that Layden didn't suck.

Also, you act like that $85 million number was static or something. The average NBA salary goes up 10% (if signed from another team) or 12.5% (if re-signed with same team) every year. Layden is as much to blame for the cap as Isiah. You'll notice Allan Houston and Shandon Anderson eating up $33 million despite not playing here in years.

And while Layden left the franchise with picks for years to come, he traded them come draft time for guys like Erick Strickland and the cupboard was bare as far as talent.

¿ △ ?
islesfan
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2/6/2006  10:35 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Islesfan - bah humbug

misterearl - still believes in Santa Claus
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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2/6/2006  10:36 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by islesfan:

Hell, even Layden didn't sink to these depths no matter how much Isiah still loves to bring up what Layden left him. Of course, whoever replaces Isiah will be left with a lot less than what Layden left him. I'd rather have a $85MM payroll with all your draft picks than $125MM and no shot at a lottery pick in 3 of the next 5 years.

Like I said, If I think Isiah sucks more than Layden it doesn't mean that Layden didn't suck.

What did you not understand?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
jaydh
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2/6/2006  10:38 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by islesfan:

Hell, even Layden didn't sink to these depths no matter how much Isiah still loves to bring up what Layden left him. Of course, whoever replaces Isiah will be left with a lot less than what Layden left him. I'd rather have a $85MM payroll with all your draft picks than $125MM and no shot at a lottery pick in 3 of the next 5 years.

Like I said, If I think Isiah sucks more than Layden it doesn't mean that Layden didn't suck.

What did you not understand?

your argument is WEAK.. what are you not understanding?
crzymdups
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2/6/2006  10:38 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by ultknicks524:

People loving this Rose trade will be the same ones killing it in about 6 months. Its the same deal with every trade that Isiah makes. It looks good in the beginning.

you're right, when Denver misses the playoffs and we get a lottery pick in addition to the second best passer on the team for an ancient PF with the worst plus/minus in the league we will all kick ourselves and pine for the days of Layden going out and wooing Michael Doleac.

And when Denver doesn't miss the playoffs and Rose is taking more PT from these young players that we're supposed to be developing?

You need decent vets to weather dry spells and help develop kids.

And if Denver doesn't miss the playoffs, guess what, we still get their pick. I guess we'll just have to wait and see with them, but with Camby/Nene/Kmart banged up and Utah/Minnesota playing better I think it's 50/50 for denver to make the playoffs at best.
¿ △ ?
misterearl
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2/6/2006  10:38 PM
>>Also, you act like that $85 million number was static or something. The average NBA salary goes up 10% (if signed from another team) or 12.5% (if re-signed with same team) every year. Layden is as much to blame for the cap as Isiah. You'll notice Allan Houston and Shandon Anderson eating up $33 million despite not playing here in years.

crzymdups - you are indeed Jedi

Keep bringing the noise and the facts

>>And while Layden left the franchise with picks for years to come, he traded them come draft time for guys like Erick Strickland and the cupboard was bare as far as talent.

I miss Michael Wright and Travis Knight


once a knick always a knick
islesfan
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2/6/2006  10:44 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

within the next 8 calendar months, we are going to see another overhaul. which means we're looking at another built-in 2 year excuse that we have to wait for them to learn how to play together.

Isiah's "plan" isn't about rebuilding, it's about getting him to his next "plan" in order to keep those fat Cablevision checks coming.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
djsunyc
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2/6/2006  10:47 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by djsunyc:

within the next 8 calendar months, we are going to see another overhaul. which means we're looking at another built-in 2 year excuse that we have to wait for them to learn how to play together.

Isiah's "plan" isn't about rebuilding, it's about getting him to his next "plan" in order to keep those fat Cablevision checks coming.

i hope curry becomes a beast...we're only going to go as far as he will take us...
islesfan
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2/6/2006  10:48 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Hold up, if Layden sucks and Isiah sucks, does that mean that Larry Brown sucks as well or is there someone that does NOT suck who would be sucking less than Isiah and Layden combined?

Now i'm confused.

1) LB has a track record of success in his current job, unlike Layden and Isiah.
2) LB has nothing but this collection of misfits to make him look good.
3) If LB had a half decent roster and still had this record then yes, he would suck.
4) It's hard to imagine any other qualified GM sucking as much as Isiah and Layden have.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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2/6/2006  10:51 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by jaydh:

how is acquiring Jalen ignoring the salary cap? oh yea, i forgot about all that caproom we would have had if we just let AD expire... nice try.

Hmmm, lower our cap number by $13MM or extend it another year by $17MM. That's a $30MM swing.

oh wait, I know, how about turning Ewing's $20 million expiring deal into $85 million to Shandon Anderson, Howard Eisley and Luc Longley! Man, I bet you miss Layden.

Yeah, like that's the point. Funny but I don't remember EVER saying that I missed Layden or anything remotely like that. If I think Isiah sucks more than Layden it doesn't mean that Layden didn't suck.

Also, you act like that $85 million number was static or something. The average NBA salary goes up 10% (if signed from another team) or 12.5% (if re-signed with same team) every year. Layden is as much to blame for the cap as Isiah. You'll notice Allan Houston and Shandon Anderson eating up $33 million despite not playing here in years.

And while Layden left the franchise with picks for years to come, he traded them come draft time for guys like Erick Strickland and the cupboard was bare as far as talent.

Again, who said that Layden was a good GM and deserved to stay???

Layden traded his current picks, not picks in the future the way Isiah has. That means that whoever followed Layden had all of his picks to help rebuild but whoever follows Isiah will not have that luxury. Is this a really difficult concept to understand?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
ultknicks524
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2/6/2006  10:52 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Again, who said that Layden was a good GM and deserved to stay???

Layden traded his current picks, not picks in the future the way Isiah has. That means that whoever followed Layden had all of his picks to help rebuild but whoever follows Isiah will not have that luxury. Is this a really difficult concept to understand?

You are wasting your time.

[Edited by - ultknicks524 on 02-06-2006 10:53 PM]
jaydh
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2/6/2006  10:53 PM
Posted by ultknicks524:

You are wasting your time.

no doubt, get that weak a$s argument outta here.
islesfan
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2/6/2006  10:54 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by islesfan:

Hell, even Layden didn't sink to these depths no matter how much Isiah still loves to bring up what Layden left him. Of course, whoever replaces Isiah will be left with a lot less than what Layden left him. I'd rather have a $85MM payroll with all your draft picks than $125MM and no shot at a lottery pick in 3 of the next 5 years.

Like I said, If I think Isiah sucks more than Layden it doesn't mean that Layden didn't suck.

What did you not understand?

your argument is WEAK.. what are you not understanding?

14-32 and about 35 games under .500 under Isiah isn't weak. Throw in his asinine roster and I ask again, what do you not understand?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
crzymdups
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2/6/2006  10:55 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by djsunyc:

within the next 8 calendar months, we are going to see another overhaul. which means we're looking at another built-in 2 year excuse that we have to wait for them to learn how to play together.

Isiah's "plan" isn't about rebuilding, it's about getting him to his next "plan" in order to keep those fat Cablevision checks coming.

i hope curry becomes a beast...we're only going to go as far as he will take us...

What's better hoping for a 23yr old who averaged 16ppg and 6rpg to get it and become a 20 and 10 player or hoping a player who's knee just exploded will become a dominant force again at 29?

For all the picks Isiah has traded away, we sure seem to have a lot of promising young players and a real coach. People praise the job Chaney did by playing us out of the Lebron/Wade/Melo/Bosh lottery the year Dyess blew up. What exactly was this great plan Isiah derailed? He had to come over and start from scratch with no assets. You would think that coming to a team that had sucked for 2.5 years he would be coming to a team with at least two young players to build around, but no, he had one lotto player who was fat and out of shape and undersized. He had nothing but expiring deals and future picks to work with.

The talent he's brought in hasn't messed yet, but when you are actually rebuilding and adding young players it's going to take time. Injuries hasn't helped, an inconsistent lineup from Brown hasn't helped but it takes more time. Rebuilding takes a little patience and living through the bumps. This team is going to be fine. As much as Isles would love it, Isiah isn't going to give up on the youth on this team. If we bring in vets, it will be to aid the kids growth and get the press off their back. This is New York, it's not like they're playing to an empty house, they can afford to spend money to get some wins while waiting for the kids to come along.
¿ △ ?
jaydh
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2/6/2006  10:55 PM
if you thought we were going to be a much better team, then you were kidding yourself....weak.
djsunyc
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2/6/2006  10:58 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by djsunyc:

within the next 8 calendar months, we are going to see another overhaul. which means we're looking at another built-in 2 year excuse that we have to wait for them to learn how to play together.

Isiah's "plan" isn't about rebuilding, it's about getting him to his next "plan" in order to keep those fat Cablevision checks coming.

i hope curry becomes a beast...we're only going to go as far as he will take us...

What's better hoping for a 23yr old who averaged 16ppg and 6rpg to get it and become a 20 and 10 player or hoping a player who's knee just exploded will become a dominant force again at 29?

For all the picks Isiah has traded away, we sure seem to have a lot of promising young players and a real coach. People praise the job Chaney did by playing us out of the Lebron/Wade/Melo/Bosh lottery the year Dyess blew up. What exactly was this great plan Isiah derailed? He had to come over and start from scratch with no assets. You would think that coming to a team that had sucked for 2.5 years he would be coming to a team with at least two young players to build around, but no, he had one lotto player who was fat and out of shape and undersized. He had nothing but expiring deals and future picks to work with.

The talent he's brought in hasn't messed yet, but when you are actually rebuilding and adding young players it's going to take time. Injuries hasn't helped, an inconsistent lineup from Brown hasn't helped but it takes more time. Rebuilding takes a little patience and living through the bumps. This team is going to be fine. As much as Isles would love it, Isiah isn't going to give up on the youth on this team. If we bring in vets, it will be to aid the kids growth and get the press off their back. This is New York, it's not like they're playing to an empty house, they can afford to spend money to get some wins while waiting for the kids to come along.

exactly. but after all the moves, all the $$$'s spent, all the hoopla, it still comes down to eddy curry. we could well go on to win 45, 50 games in 2 years. we could make 2nd rounds year in and year out. you know what, i've been there, i've done that. i want this to become an ELITE final 2 team. i know it's going to take time. but at the end of the day, it comes down to eddy curry taking us there. the only other way is drafting a franchise superstar, and the chances of that are pretty slim since we won't likely have a top 10 pick over the next 2 years at the least.
djsunyc
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2/6/2006  11:00 PM
Posted by jaydh:

if you thought we were going to be a much better team, then you were kidding yourself....weak.

hey, before the season started, the worst everyone around here thought this team would do is around 40 wins. most people were at .500 or in the 45-47 win range. we did win 33 games last year and with lb, we all thought we would improve by AT LEAST 7 wins.

this year has been an utter unmitigated dissapointment. from the top to the bottom.
you can be an isiah supporter/hater, lb supporter/hater, or a marbury supporter/hater...whatever you are, NOBODY thought it was going to look this bad.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 02-06-2006 11:00 PM]
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