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Would you do this Jamal trade?
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MS
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2/1/2006  3:06 PM
Crawford doesn't belong in the NBA, anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool he is a street player that has no IQ
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codeunknown
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2/1/2006  3:09 PM
Posted by MS:

Crawford doesn't belong in the NBA, anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool he is a street player that has no IQ

Anyone who believes that this is an appropriate time to trade him is lacking in the IQ department as well.
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Bonn1997
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2/1/2006  3:17 PM
When is Crawford's trade value going to get higher? (Note also that I didn't say anything about a timetable or about WHEN I would make this trade.)
MS
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2/1/2006  3:18 PM
Good Idea lets just wait, let his lack of defense spread to other players, along with his poor shot selection.....because hes only been in the league how many years now?

Hes really worked hard during the summer to strengthen his frame to guard tougher players.....

His value is going up, you get rid of guys that are part of the problem, ohh and our ****ing draft picks are gone so why lose
Bonn1997
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2/1/2006  3:20 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Why trade Jamal just b/c you've given up on him. He has improved big time on one of his biggest knocks. Shot selection. He's not a pure PG. If you can accept that, and realize he's a combo guard who can take the ball up the court and his best attributes are scoring, then you'll appreciate him. Maybe this summer he'll improve more by bulking up a bit so he can improve his D. This is a bad thread. You don't give up good talent for an expiring contract, when you're way over the cap. If you want to trade Jamal, you gotto help yourself and try to get some talent back. Not plain old crap.
Jamal's 26 and in his sixth season. If he was gonna gain weight and no longer be the skinniest player in the NBA, I don't see why he wouldn't have done it by now. Jamal hasn't given me any indication that he'll ever be a player who actually scores more points than he gives up on D. We have enough players who can score already. Whether we were under or over the cap, I'd rather have another tough player like Jackie Butler (which you can get with the free roster spot) than a Jamal on the team.



[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 02-01-2006 3:22 PM]
MS
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2/1/2006  3:23 PM
Send him to seatle right now, for danny fortson or reggie evens, send him home
tomverve
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2/1/2006  3:44 PM
If it could get us below or near the cap, I might do it. Doesn't make sense at this point to lose Jamal for nothing, though. If someone is willing to do an expiring contract for JC deal now, in all likelihood there will be another team willing to do it a couple of years down the line when it would make more sense for us to do a pure talent-for-cap-space trade like that. And in the extra couple of years, you might find that trading him for nothing might not be the wisest decision after all.

Jamal looks absoltuely wretched recently, but don't let that cloud your judgment. In the bigger picture, he's still a talented scorer and ball handler who at the least can be an effective X-factor every other game or so. On the other hand, I am fast becoming convinced that he's the worst defensive guard in the league, so I won't be upset if he is traded. But he's definitely not as terrible overall as he's looked lately-- clearly he's just in a bad slump, and it won't last forever.
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Bonn1997
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2/1/2006  3:49 PM
I am fast becoming convinced that he's the worst defensive guard in the league, so I won't be upset if he is traded.
Does he help put more points on the board (scoring, assists) than he takes off (missed shots, TOs) and gives up on D? How can you be concerned about losing for nothing a guy who gives up more than he contributes? (BTW, it's not losing him for nothing. It's losing him for a free roster spot anyway.)

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 02-01-2006 3:50 PM]
tomverve
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2/1/2006  4:09 PM
I don't know if he usually gives up more than he gets us, it's hard to say. You can't just count the baskets he scores and assists-- you have to take context into account. I would imagine having a perimeter scorer like Jamal is very valuable to our team scoring overall, just because of the way it warps team defenses. We are already in the hole as far as perimeter shooting goes, which allows teams to clog the middle and better stifle Curry and Marbury. Losing Jamal would just exacerbate that weakness and allow teams to further pack it in and dare guys like Q and Malik to shoot.

Actually I think that's basically what's been happening lately and is a big reason for our poor play. Jamal's O has been non-existent, and Frye is in a pretty deep slump himself, not to mention Marbury is nowhere near 100%... leaving us with basically Curry, who teams can focus in on indiscriminately now, and the occassional good game from Woods and Mo T. And that's it.

Short answer: if we trade Jamal for a pure cap dump, our defense probably gets a bit better, but our offense probably suffers more than the defense improves. And that will continue to be true unless we can find another player or two who can consistently create his own shot and knock down a jumper, or unless we can acquire a genuine stopper type defender in the backcourt.
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codeunknown
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2/1/2006  4:12 PM
Posted by MS:

Good Idea lets just wait, let his lack of defense spread to other players, along with his poor shot selection.....because hes only been in the league how many years now?

Hes really worked hard during the summer to strengthen his frame to guard tougher players.....

His value is going up, you get rid of guys that are part of the problem, ohh and our ****ing draft picks are gone so why lose


Wrong - you get rid of guys at the moment of maximum profit - not now.

I can list millions of things wrong with Crawford. His shooting form is variable from shot to shot, he makes bad passes on the fast break, has a limited understanding of movement on offense, has no strength to finish drives, can't get over screens at all, is a post-up liability etc. That doesn't detract from the highly probable notion that his value will go up once the team collectively improves by the end of next season - coincidentally when his riddance, if combined with Stephon's departure, offers us cap room and a decent draft pick. Summer 07 is the optimal decision point for the retention of our young players - the period of evaluation under Brown will be more significant and the returns of a trade will be amplified.

With regard to Jamal being part of the problem, every player on this team is part of the problem minus Stephon. Player improvement has been plainly obvious - albeit at the cost of a consistent line-up and team familiarity. Projecting that improvement over two years is not an easy task - regardless, I'll gamble with keeping Crawford than trading him for scraps - especially when those scraps bestow no immediate benefit.
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nykshaknbake
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2/1/2006  10:03 PM
I really don't like Jamal's game. But at the same time I don't see the benefits of getting rid of him for nothing. Cap space means zero to the Knicks and probably always will. I say we give him more time to improve. If we can get picks or anythin of value out, pull the trigger. I wouldn't trade him for anything less than a mid 1st rounder.
BasketballJones
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2/1/2006  10:44 PM
I like Jamal okay when he's playing well but, where the f*** has he been these last few games? I guess he's just inconsistent.
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Bonn1997
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2/1/2006  11:26 PM
Posted by nykshaknbake:

I really don't like Jamal's game. But at the same time I don't see the benefits of getting rid of him for nothing. Cap space means zero to the Knicks and probably always will. I say we give him more time to improve. If we can get picks or anythin of value out, pull the trigger. I wouldn't trade him for anything less than a mid 1st rounder.
The point is to get *roster* space, not cap space
nykshaknbake
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2/2/2006  12:39 AM
Who will you use the roster space for?
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by nykshaknbake:

I really don't like Jamal's game. But at the same time I don't see the benefits of getting rid of him for nothing. Cap space means zero to the Knicks and probably always will. I say we give him more time to improve. If we can get picks or anythin of value out, pull the trigger. I wouldn't trade him for anything less than a mid 1st rounder.
The point is to get *roster* space, not cap space
Killa4luv
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2/2/2006  1:17 AM
you dont throw him under the boss. He has talent and value as a player, he just happens to suck for what we need him for. You don't trade him for nothing. You try a talented player who is underachieving on another team but plays better D. two guys come to mind:

Bobby Simmons (maybe MORE erratic than JC but better D)
Desmond Mason (way less offensive game, way better D)

If Craw could at least play D it could work. The only drawback to someone like Mason is that he can't shoot, so we'd have him and q1, to shooting guards who can't shoot. But D Mase has a slashing attack that q lacks.
Bonn1997
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2/2/2006  8:07 AM
Posted by nykshaknbake:

Who will you use the roster space for?
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by nykshaknbake:

I really don't like Jamal's game. But at the same time I don't see the benefits of getting rid of him for nothing. Cap space means zero to the Knicks and probably always will. I say we give him more time to improve. If we can get picks or anythin of value out, pull the trigger. I wouldn't trade him for anything less than a mid 1st rounder.
The point is to get *roster* space, not cap space

See above. I'd much rather have another Jackie Butler or Qytnel Woods than Jamal. Those players at least don't give up more points than they score. We need TOUGH players. Jamal is and will always be as soft as you can find. You don't win games with such a soft player having any meaningful role.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 02-02-2006 08:11 AM]
Bonn1997
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2/2/2006  8:08 AM
If Craw could at least play D it could work
That's not something that begins to happen in year 7 for a 26 year old who's never cared about defense.
simrud
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2/2/2006  8:29 AM
At this point I would do any trade with Craw as long as they take of a bad contract off our hands. Its Layden years all over again. If they take Shanderson along with whatever, we'll do it lol.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Bonn1997
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2/2/2006  8:48 AM
We're already giving teams one bad contract in Jamal's. Don't get greedy and expect a team to take two bad contracts!
codeunknown
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2/2/2006  11:45 AM
The point is to get *roster* space, not cap space

Please lets not discount the extensive value of Jamal as an expiring contract in 2011.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
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Would you do this Jamal trade?
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