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Larry Brown is Overrated!!!!
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gunsnewing
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1/22/2006  1:51 PM
there's something to the madness and the players aren't good enough or smart enough
AUTOADVERT
McK1
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1/22/2006  1:53 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:


What kind of winning basketball is Sam Mitchell getting his team to play first of all? Last time I checked 14-26 isn't winning basketball. You guys want to hang onto this thing about Larry starting guys in their hometowns so much but what does it matter? The Knicks are put together poorly and at the time Larry was doing this players hadn't earned a starting spot. If you asked me there is only player on the Knicks roster that deserved to be in the starting lineup on a nightly basis and thats Stephon Marbury. What other player on this team has earned it before the season started? Frye? Nope, he's shown that he's a rookie and makes plenty of rookie bonehead mistakes and is what some thought he was coming out of college... A SHOOTER at 4 or 5. Curry? Who knew what his deal was after his heart-problem last year. Crawford? Not good enough to start for any team in the NBA. I can go on too, Penny Hardaway? Shot. Antonio Davis? Eh, he plays good D, he MIGHT have been penciled in. Malik Rose? Garbage. Jerome Jame? Garbage. Quentin Richards? Back problems have changed him to a one-dimensional player.

Notice something ironic about Crawford and Curry? AD, Penny, Malik, Q, Crawford are all making a ton of money and can't even crack a starting lineup for most NBA teams. So tell me this Holfresh, who should HAVE been starting for the Knicks when Larry was playing the lineups he did.


[Edited by - nyk4ever on 01-22-2006 1:52 PM]

great post

[Edited by - McK1 on 01-22-2006 1:53 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
fishmike
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1/22/2006  1:54 PM
holfresh.. what do you see? Go lay it out there for us. Ive watched every minute of the Knicks for about 15 years now. Whats changed in the last 5 years?

Kerr nailed it his article. One day a lineup kicks ass together. The next day that same line up stinks.

Like I said... go fire Larry. At least Herb's rotations were consistant right?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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1/22/2006  2:01 PM
Posted by fishmike:

holfresh.. what do you see? Go lay it out there for us. Ive watched every minute of the Knicks for about 15 years now. Whats changed in the last 5 years?

Kerr nailed it his article. One day a lineup kicks ass together. The next day that same line up stinks.

Like I said... go fire Larry. At least Herb's rotations were consistant right?

yeah, the fact that Larry benched Steph these last three games is pretty unbelievable. some coach he is!
¿ △ ?
fishmike
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1/22/2006  2:11 PM
goes to show about Marbury and what he brings.

Hey.. maybe Rose is what we need
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
attaboy2005
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1/22/2006  2:16 PM
Posted by McK1:
How can a Byron Scott team with less talent look far superior to the Knicks

Chris Paul

Yeah this kid is good, but he is great because he is allowed to carry the ball everytime, and he double dribbles the rest of the time. Doing these things can get you in good position to do just about anything, it's amazing how the NBA has become like a High School League when it comes to allowing these young kids to get away with paming, carrying and double dribbling the ball, but only calling against players of lesser caliber than Paul, he was carrying the ball everytime he drove to the basket giving him an unfair advantage against the defense. Even Clyde pointed it out once, but he was doing this everytime down the court, what has these league come to with such blantantly poor dribbling and being called a great player because of it.
holfresh
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1/22/2006  2:23 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:


So let me get this straight, If Byron Scott and Sam Mitchell can get a young team to play winning basketball, and Larry Brown who likes to start certain players on the road because it's their home town(I'm not making that one up)seemingly cannot get the job done, then it must be the players....Genius..Why didn't I see that...

What kind of winning basketball is Sam Mitchell getting his team to play first of all? Last time I checked 14-26 isn't winning basketball. You guys want to hang onto this thing about Larry starting guys in their hometowns so much but what does it matter? The Knicks are put together poorly and at the time Larry was doing this players hadn't earned a starting spot. If you asked me there is only player on the Knicks roster that deserved to be in the starting lineup on a nightly basis and thats Stephon Marbury. What other player on this team has earned it before the season started? Frye? Nope, he's shown that he's a rookie and makes plenty of rookie bonehead mistakes and is what some thought he was coming out of college... A SHOOTER at 4 or 5. Curry? Who knew what his deal was after his heart-problem last year. Crawford? Not good enough to start for any team in the NBA. I can go on too, Penny Hardaway? Shot. Antonio Davis? Eh, he plays good D, he MIGHT have been penciled in. Malik Rose? Garbage. Jerome Jame? Garbage. Quentin Richardson? Back problems have changed him to a one-dimensional player.

Notice something ironic about Crawford and Curry? AD, Penny, Malik, Q, Crawford are all making a ton of money and can't even crack a starting lineup for most NBA teams. So tell me this Holfresh, who should HAVE been starting for the Knicks when Larry was playing the lineups he did.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 01-22-2006 1:54 PM]



Maybe you missed the games the Knicks played against Toronto and the Hornets....Briefly, they got embarrassed!! The games looked as though the opposing coaches have found a way to have mediocre players and talent play team basketball. Thats all I ask of my 10 mil per year coach. For a good portion of the early he was starting Malik Rose and AD....They are done....DONE!!!..Lee can't stay with any small forward in the league....He is a 4 and what kills me is that I think Lee will be a good 4 in this league but Larry doesnt play him there...Please tell you boy Larry, enough with the mind games...I think he is now trying to break down the fans before building them back up....MY Starting lineup..thought you would never ask.....Curry,Frye,Ariza,Q,Steph...OOOpppss I think Nate just commited another turnover.....
Marv
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1/22/2006  2:24 PM
Posted by attaboy2005:
Posted by McK1:
How can a Byron Scott team with less talent look far superior to the Knicks

Chris Paul

Yeah this kid is good, but he is great because he is allowed to carry the ball everytime, and he double dribbles the rest of the time. Doing these things can get you in good position to do just about anything, it's amazing how the NBA has become like a High School League when it comes to allowing these young kids to get away with paming, carrying and double dribbling the ball, but only calling against players of lesser caliber than Paul, he was carrying the ball everytime he drove to the basket giving him an unfair advantage against the defense. Even Clyde pointed it out once, but he was doing this everytime down the court, what has these league come to with such blantantly poor dribbling and being called a great player because of it.

To my thinking that's been allowed for abouit 20 years now so everyone has an equal chance to adapt to it.

At the game last night DJ's buddy Rick was comparing Paul to a young Kenny Anderson. I lthought that was a good comparison, Kenny was pretty amazing early in his career. Plus I remember him carrying like crazy too, but it's part of the game and has been for a long time. Remember how Magic would cradle that ball? You couldn 't have gotten it away from him with a shovel.
McK1
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1/22/2006  2:27 PM
Posted by attaboy2005:
Posted by McK1:
How can a Byron Scott team with less talent look far superior to the Knicks

Chris Paul

Yeah this kid is good, but he is great because he is allowed to carry the ball everytime, and he double dribbles the rest of the time. Doing these things can get you in good position to do just about anything, it's amazing how the NBA has become like a High School League when it comes to allowing these young kids to get away with paming, carrying and double dribbling the ball, but only calling against players of lesser caliber than Paul, he was carrying the ball everytime he drove to the basket giving him an unfair advantage against the defense. Even Clyde pointed it out once, but he was doing this everytime down the court, what has these league come to with such blantantly poor dribbling and being called a great player because of it.

the refs allowing him to carry a little makes him great. Michael Jordan is somewhere reading this and laughing his ass off.

Paul is a leader. Paul is an orchestrator. Paul has great court vision and great court sense. At 6' 0, Paul is a triple double threat every night.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
TMS
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1/22/2006  2:28 PM
some of us believe this team has some talented young players that are improving & that this team will get better in time... why is that delusional thinking? lately i'm hearing alot of crap about this team having mediocre talent, that they'll never be good as presently constructed, & that the Hall of Fame coach doesn't know what he's doing... funny how you never heard these comments a week ago.

personally i'm under no delusions that this team is even close to being a title contender right now, but i do feel they have potential to get better very soon, & i believe they will be a legitimate playoff contender in a year or two because i believe in Larry Brown's ability as a coach to teach these guys how to play winning basketball... i love all the critics like to downgrade our 3 rookies, 1 of whom is a leading candidate for ROY... when was the last time a Knicks' rookie showed such promise? but he's all of a sudden a mediocre talent... i see how it is... i guess after another 5 game winning streak he'll miraculously metamorph into Tim Duncan redux again... & then coach Larry Brown will be a genius i'm sure... i can't wait to read the comments then... LOL.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
fishmike
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1/22/2006  2:36 PM
there's a lot of things I like about a lot of the players on this team TMS, but there are an equal amount of holes. Maybe they are just dumb and need more time to learn to play a certain way, but look at this roster from top to bottom and there is a derth of middle of the road players.

Hey... I like Larry. Whatever his agenda is he has it because he's got some vision. Dare I say of all the places he's been he wants to win here more than any of the others.

Curry,Frye,Ariza,Q,Steph
yea... great McK1. Trevor cant keep from dribbling off his feet. Q is shooting 35%. Curry and Frye let guys score on them like a bunch of drunked prom dates but I'm sure that line up would fix everything.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
holfresh
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1/22/2006  2:40 PM
Posted by TMS:

some of us believe this team has some talented young players that are improving & that this team will get better in time... why is that delusional thinking? lately i'm hearing alot of crap about this team having mediocre talent, that they'll never be good as presently constructed, & that the Hall of Fame coach doesn't know what he's doing... funny how you never heard these comments a week ago.

personally i'm under no delusions that this team is even close to being a title contender right now, but i do feel they have potential to get better very soon, & i believe they will be a legitimate playoff contender in a year or two because i believe in Larry Brown's ability as a coach to teach these guys how to play winning basketball... i love all the critics like to downgrade our 3 rookies, 1 of whom is a leading candidate for ROY... when was the last time a Knicks' rookie showed such promise? but he's all of a sudden a mediocre talent... i see how it is... i guess after another 5 game winning streak he'll miraculously metamorph into Tim Duncan redux again... & then coach Larry Brown will be a genius i'm sure... i can't wait to read the comments then... LOL.



Well that is my entire point..I do believe this team have talent...I do believe we have a good coach..not a great one as most believe (SEE SUMMER OLYMPICS)...But I really do believe Larry can get the job done...but after watching the last few games where it seems like the team had absolutely no clue out there and watching the Hornets run set play after set play and we can't even get the ball into Curry's hands or run a pick and roll for Frye, I say to myself,who should be teaching them to do this? How long should we wait for this to happen..Other young teams seemed to have grasped the concept...When does it kick in...When does the mind games stop and basketball games begin...Thats all I'm asking??
McK1
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1/22/2006  2:44 PM
Posted by fishmike:


Curry,Frye,Ariza,Q,Steph
yea... great McK1. Trevor cant keep from dribbling off his feet. Q is shooting 35%. Curry and Frye let guys score on them like a bunch of drunked prom dates but I'm sure that line up would fix everything.



the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
holfresh
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1/22/2006  2:47 PM
Posted by fishmike:

there's a lot of things I like about a lot of the players on this team TMS, but there are an equal amount of holes. Maybe they are just dumb and need more time to learn to play a certain way, but look at this roster from top to bottom and there is a derth of middle of the road players.

Hey... I like Larry. Whatever his agenda is he has it because he's got some vision. Dare I say of all the places he's been he wants to win here more than any of the others.

Curry,Frye,Ariza,Q,Steph
yea... great McK1. Trevor cant keep from dribbling off his feet. Q is shooting 35%. Curry and Frye let guys score on them like a bunch of drunked prom dates but I'm sure that line up would fix everything.



I don't even have to look this one up....No Starting small forward and power forward combo averages 10 points a game combined in this league....Maybe at some division II school somewhere...
fishmike
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1/22/2006  2:59 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by TMS:

some of us believe this team has some talented young players that are improving & that this team will get better in time... why is that delusional thinking? lately i'm hearing alot of crap about this team having mediocre talent, that they'll never be good as presently constructed, & that the Hall of Fame coach doesn't know what he's doing... funny how you never heard these comments a week ago.

personally i'm under no delusions that this team is even close to being a title contender right now, but i do feel they have potential to get better very soon, & i believe they will be a legitimate playoff contender in a year or two because i believe in Larry Brown's ability as a coach to teach these guys how to play winning basketball... i love all the critics like to downgrade our 3 rookies, 1 of whom is a leading candidate for ROY... when was the last time a Knicks' rookie showed such promise? but he's all of a sudden a mediocre talent... i see how it is... i guess after another 5 game winning streak he'll miraculously metamorph into Tim Duncan redux again... & then coach Larry Brown will be a genius i'm sure... i can't wait to read the comments then... LOL.



Well that is my entire point..I do believe this team have talent...I do believe we have a good coach..not a great one as most believe (SEE SUMMER OLYMPICS)...But I really do believe Larry can get the job done...but after watching the last few games where it seems like the team had absolutely no clue out there and watching the Hornets run set play after set play and we can't even get the ball into Curry's hands or run a pick and roll for Frye, I say to myself,who should be teaching them to do this? How long should we wait for this to happen..Other young teams seemed to have grasped the concept...When does it kick in...When does the mind games stop and basketball games begin...Thats all I'm asking??
what mind games. Nate cant make a pass into the post. He cant. either he's to short or he just sucks. Maybe this will be a "skill" Larry can teach him. We can only hope.

I love his heart and passion but we have a 5'9 SG that cant feed the post. I find that far more frustrating than Larry's rotations.

but thats just me.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
holfresh
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1/22/2006  3:00 PM
We are starting 2 forwards who can't score,they average 10 pts a game combined, a shooting guard who is a turnover waiting to happen and can't cover other shooting guards so our point guard has to guard the 2 guard..On offense our point guard who is the best option on offense has to pass the ball first to guys who usually turn it over or can't score..Then we look up at the end of first quater and we are down by ten points and we say what is the problem....How can you continue to defend Brown? How?
McK1
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1/22/2006  3:07 PM
Isiah targeted these guys so blame him.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
fishmike
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1/22/2006  3:11 PM
because your 2nd options arent better. AD starts because Frye's defense is offensive. Q is shooting 35%. He started last night.. how did that work out? I believe 1-7 in the first Qtr.

I'm not defending Brown nearly as much as you think. you act like Lebron and Carmello arent getting enough minutes. Every guy you want to see in the SL has as many shortcomings as we are currently starting.

I like Crawford a lot but he's got a boat load of 3-15 type games. As does Q. Frye can certainly score but cant you see why he gets benched?

He have an enormous amount of $$$$$ commited to Mo Taylor, Malik Rose, Q and Jerome James. These guys have produced dick, but they are there and if you think we are sitting 5-6 guys making $40mm a year its just not happening.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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1/22/2006  3:11 PM
Posted by McK1:

Isiah targeted these guys so blame him.
we have a winner!!!!!!

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
EnySpree
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1/22/2006  4:00 PM
Posted by Travla:

No coach should ever want to lose. Sending a message, young team, whatever!! You play to the strength of your personnel until you're able to get new personnel. Curry, Steph, Craw could give you 18 or more a game, Frye probably 15 a game. Mo T., QRich, Nate and the rest fill in where/when necessary. We are not a good defensive team but neither is Cleveland, Washington, Dallas, NO/OKC, Denver, Utah, Phoenix, Clippers, Lakers, Sacremento or Golden State but they all have winning or at least competitive teams. I'd love a winning team but I'll settle for competitive any day!!



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Larry Brown is Overrated!!!!

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