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Let's Give IT Some Credit for the Trades He's Made
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LBeast
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1/11/2006  4:31 AM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by LBeast:

The next 5 years? Whats that year 8 into IT's "grand plan"? Who gets 8 years to start a contender? And dont tell me it was Layden's mess because the last of Layden's contracts comes off at the end of next season. THAT's where IT should have been shooting to be under the cap. BTW, Marbury will be 36 that year and Larry Brown will be long gone, but Jerome James might still be here. So if Isiah was looking 8 years down the line, why trade for Marbury in the first place. Isiah's tenure has been full of hasty moves, and wasted money.

I liked the Marbury move. The rest outside of the draft has been questionable at best.

[Edited by - LBeast on 01-10-2006 12:24 PM]

How could you in one breath say the Knicks should have rebuilt when Laydens players contracts would be up then on the other hand say you like the Marbury move.
Because even with Marbury's contract, we could've been under the cap after next season. See for yourself: http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm
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LBeast
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1/11/2006  4:32 AM
Posted by misterearl:

LBeast - Who gets 8 years to start a contender?

Pete Babcock got ten years in Atlanta. He didn't get one tenth the heat Isiah has caiught in two years.

My point EXACTLY. God, do you guys actually read, or do you skim?
rvhoss
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1/11/2006  5:46 AM
another win. Go knicks, thanks Isiah. Funny, it's coinciding with our main foundation coming back from injury (Curry)...great post, it's not going to take another 5 years, it will come to pass sooner than you think.
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boomann
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1/11/2006  11:18 AM
Sweetney has actually been slightly better so far.

Due to this insane quote I will not be able to respond to anymore of your posts. But thank you for participating
"We need another shot blocker and we need more girth in the middle, once that happens we have a chance to be a pretty decent team" Isiah on draft night
LBeast
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1/11/2006  11:47 AM
Take the ball and go home. But until this recent surge Sweetney had been better. Not as insane as you might think.
kNYks342
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1/11/2006  12:36 PM
you know what you guys cant hqave it both ways...if it was sitting on his ass and we still had eisley running point. Or would you rather have scott layden. the fact is isiah didnt have much to work with when he came here. Scott layden might have had the matbs thing but didnt have the balls to pull the deal. Isiah said he had to do some unconventional things and he has...overall i like what he has done.
Knicksfan
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1/11/2006  12:37 PM
Isiah did his part trying to bring the most talent he could get. Most of the moves were welcomed when they happened, even the James signing. Too bad some of them haven't worked out like we all hoped, but at least he tried to address every need we had and built a talented roster. Now, he didn't really know he had a chance on Brown until later in the offseason, so he built the roster through his vision. He still has some moves to make, but his job was a satisfying one. The rest was Larry Brown's problem and in the beginning it was hard for him to make the roster become a team. But lately, thanks god, it has been slowly becoming a team.

Now, lets keep the winning and the good play!!

The turnaround is on!!
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Ira
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1/12/2006  4:40 AM
Isaiah's moves weren't all good, but he made the team younger. Just two and a half years ago our team consisted of players like Sprewell, Houston, Thomas, Ward and Witherspoon. We were going nowhere but down. Now, it looks like the Knicks have turned the corner.
misterearl
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1/12/2006  9:54 AM
>But until this recent surge Sweetney had been better.

Ira - just younger?

The whole POINT is having a vision. Comparing the Sweetney to Eddy Curry is downright silly.

Among Isiah's BEST moves was Larry Brown.

Jamal Crawford isn't exactly sucking either. Despite being 68 years old, Tony Davis is an anchor for leadership and rebounding grit. Nate is a superball of energy with a deadly three point shot. David Lee, another ROOKIE, is already contributing and helping to set the tome as a freakin' STARTER! Mo Taylor is the new enforcer and playing tough inside.

What is the problem here people?

Did I mention a young cat named Channing Frye?

once a knick always a knick
LJforFOUR
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1/12/2006  9:58 AM
Come on. You cannot pin the woes of this team in the last few two years to IT! Let's be real. WE now have athletic talent and hard-nosed play at every position and deep into our bench. We have offense for the first time since the Ewing days, and our defense is progressing from the losing streak. That is what IT has done, and I believe you only have to look to next year for this team to bear it's real fruit. These kids we have are in the NBA to stay, and have already progressed incredibly. Our team chemistry is better than I can remember and our guys are loving playing together. If you can't say that IT helped us get here, then you are just biased. Where's the LOVE?! Let's not forget, it could be worse.
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martin
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1/12/2006  10:10 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Among Isiah's BEST moves was Larry Brown.

I think this is a grossly underestimated statement. Isiah's BEST move was Larry Brown.

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LBeast
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1/12/2006  10:21 AM
Dont get it twisted. I'm rooting for Isiah, but, I cannot look at his moves with rose colored glasses and ignore whats in front of me. You cant tell me all of his moves have been great and that he's had this "master plan" all along. He's been all over the place with his moves. You cant tell Knick fans anything but the good things.
MS
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1/12/2006  10:26 AM
We are going in the right direction but his trades have been terrible, just because we are in the midst of a nice streak; its not that the trades are terrible its the fact that he gives the Suns draft picks, takes on someone with a bad back, gives someone that no one wants a big contract, signs one of the worst centers in the league to 5 years guarented and adds salary while giving up picks.......
islesfan
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1/12/2006  10:28 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by misterearl:

Among Isiah's BEST moves was Larry Brown.

I think this is a grossly underestimated statement. Isiah's BEST move was Larry Brown.

Actually that was Dolan's move.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
fishmike
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1/12/2006  10:29 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by misterearl:

Among Isiah's BEST moves was Larry Brown.

I think this is a grossly underestimated statement. Isiah's BEST move was Larry Brown.
no ifs ands or buts
Isiah created a pretty big mess and took on a fortune. Larry is fixing it right now. Isiah definatly upgraded the talent and drafted GREAT, but his trades were pretty bad in that he always overpaid. I like most of the players but he always bid against himself and pushed up the price.

Larry Brown is off the charts. Its one thing to put your players in a position to succeed by putting them in situations that maximize their skills. Its another to get them to do things that have never done before in their career and do them well. Crawford's rebounding and D. Lee's range on his jumper. Remember he said himself he never shot much past 10 feet but coach had him shooting 150-200 of those corner 18 footers a day. Mo T's commitment to D and rebounding. Q playing physical D on Lebron. Curry boxing out and blocking shots. LB has made our players better. Plain and simple. The players have to do the work but obviously if they dont they sit, so one way or another they are motivated.
Billups told Marbury Brown would make him better, but I didnt expect this kind of result. If he gives us 3-4 years he can really lay a foundation.

If Isiah just sticks to what he does well which is draft I feel very good about the direction of our team.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
martin
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1/12/2006  10:39 AM
Fish, don't discount that the players are themselves putting in the extra effort and time in practice. I know this for a fact with several of the guys. Brown has certainly given direction and created an atmosphere, but the players are believing and contributing mightily.
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fishmike
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1/12/2006  10:52 AM
I'm not sure now. I used to agree 100% with you on that one. Now I dont know. There's only a couple guys that can push players the way Brown does. Riley, Phil, Pop.. maybe Sloan. Without talent and hardwork a great coach is useless. No arguement there, but its obvious LB like the other guys I mentioned can simply get more from players. He's made guys better in 2 months. Now he's alienated talented players along the way also, but I will take the good with the bad when you look at his history.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
martin
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1/12/2006  11:02 AM
OK, fair enough.
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misterearl
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1/12/2006  11:05 AM
fishmike - Isiah HIRED Larry Brown, Dolan simply signs the checks.

Why do you and Islesfan refuse to give Isiah credit for the patience and perserverance it took to close THAT longshot of a coaching deal? He landed Larry freakin' Brown!

And no, all of Thomases trades have not been bad. Whether any of you perceived a so-called plan or not, the fact remains, Isiah's watch is becoming much more watchable than ANYTHING since 1999.

He dramatically changed the culture of a slumping franchise in many more ways than just trades. Please don't forget the discipline Isiah brought to the franchise and the challenge to accountablity - for the players to relate better as New Yorkers. He even gave the coaches a dress code.

It all works together

We are just starting to see the fruits of Isiah's labor and all some can do is continue to complain, because he does not conform to their narrow pre-conceived notions of a NY leader.

That is more than sad. That is pathetic

[Edited by - MisterEarl on 01-12-2006 11:12 AM]
once a knick always a knick
fishmike
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1/12/2006  11:09 AM
Isles said that, not me... I agreed that IT's best move was to hire LB. Easily.
I'm not stubborn. Its not in my character
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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