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Will the Bobcats make a run at Ariza this summer?
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jaydh
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1/9/2006  6:51 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I think LLE is only 2 years, $3.3 mil. A team would barely have to dip into the MLE to beat that for Trevor. It wouldn't shock me if some team with a lot of cap room used a tiny portion of that cap room and gave him a $4+ mil contract. Hopefully Trevor has some home-town loyalty.

if im the knicks ill match any reasonable offer. I would NOT match an MLE and I doubt trevor sees close to that.

what's reasonable? 3mm if another team offers 2.5? who are we going get for the remaining 2mil. chances are we'll. sign a scrub like brewer, barnes. I rather have the full MLE to sign a mike james type who's a much better player than Ariza. unless what Crzymups said is right

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 01-09-2006 5:56 PM]

tho i love Mike James, if Nate Robinson continues to play well, we really don't need to go after him... he's more of a scoring PG anyway who plays high energy, defends & runs the floor, much like Nate, only taller... but Nate makes up for his lack of size w/his heart.

exactly, we dont need a guard who is going to take more minutes away from our young guys. i'd prefer it to be used on a defensive player, either on the wings, or to backup the bigs.
AUTOADVERT
NYKniCksFan87
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1/9/2006  7:30 PM
if any thing i say resign reezy to a 4year 8 million dollar deal with 2 mil per year
''We don't have the luxury to take anybody lightly,'' New York's Quentin Richardson said. ''We're not that good.''
Marv
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1/9/2006  8:27 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

if brian scalbrine can snag half an mle, anything is possible.
Nalod
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1/9/2006  11:24 PM
What do we need?

A backup point.

Do we keep Qoods? Will Qich get healthy?

If Isiah Keeps his Spurs pick he can also go Euro and incubate a kid in Europe.

have really just one roster spot opening up.
jaydh
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1/9/2006  11:39 PM
well, penny and AD will open up 2 spots. I hope we hold onto ariza. To fill the other 2 spots i would like a backup point who can play D, and a backup big(pf/c) who can play D and reb.
bigbeast
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1/9/2006  11:44 PM
Posted by jaydh:

well, penny and AD will open up 2 spots. I hope we hold onto ariza. To fill the other 2 spots i would like a backup point who can play D, and a backup big(pf/c) who can play D and reb.

How about adding a legit SF and Shooting guard who can actually shoot. We already have a backup big who can play D a rebound, is name is Lee. Don't need any more bigs. Taylor is back next year, so is Rose, of course Frye and Curry. Oh yeah, were stuck with JJ. Again, a legit SF who can score from the wings and create his own shot and a 2G who can guard and make an open J

"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
jaydh
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1/9/2006  11:50 PM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by jaydh:

well, penny and AD will open up 2 spots. I hope we hold onto ariza. To fill the other 2 spots i would like a backup point who can play D, and a backup big(pf/c) who can play D and reb.

How about adding a legit SF and Shooting guard who can actually shoot. We already have a backup big who can play D a rebound, is name is Lee. Don't need any more bigs. Taylor is back next year, so is Rose, of course Frye and Curry. Oh yeah, were stuck with JJ. Again, a legit SF who can score from the wings and create his own shot and a 2G who can guard and make an open J

I guess we differ on how we view our players. I like Lee at SF, and believe Lee and Ariza can hold down the SF spot with some more development. I dont want Rose getting any minutes, and I dont exactly view Taylor, Frye, or Curry as a big defensive force or rebounder type. I think theo ratliff would be perfect to backup Curry and Frye, but his contract is obscene. Also, I think JC and Nate are legit SGs that can shoot. hopefully ariza can become that wing defender we need, leading me to want a defensive pg/sg type player, which hopefully isiah can get in the draft.
jaydh
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1/9/2006  11:54 PM
that would give us an offensive and defensive player at each position, giving us a lot of options depending on the matchups.
bigbeast
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1/10/2006  12:24 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by jaydh:

well, penny and AD will open up 2 spots. I hope we hold onto ariza. To fill the other 2 spots i would like a backup point who can play D, and a backup big(pf/c) who can play D and reb.

How about adding a legit SF and Shooting guard who can actually shoot. We already have a backup big who can play D a rebound, is name is Lee. Don't need any more bigs. Taylor is back next year, so is Rose, of course Frye and Curry. Oh yeah, were stuck with JJ. Again, a legit SF who can score from the wings and create his own shot and a 2G who can guard and make an open J

I guess we differ on how we view our players. I like Lee at SF, and believe Lee and Ariza can hold down the SF spot with some more development. I dont want Rose getting any minutes, and I dont exactly view Taylor, Frye, or Curry as a big defensive force or rebounder type. I think theo ratliff would be perfect to backup Curry and Frye, but his contract is obscene. Also, I think JC and Nate are legit SGs that can shoot. hopefully ariza can become that wing defender we need, leading me to want a defensive pg/sg type player, which hopefully isiah can get in the draft.

Ariza and Lee can't be your main SF' on tea with any hope of championship aspirations. The game has evolved from the dominant cnter to the dominant wing player. (Lebron, T-mac, Pierce, Kobe, Wade, Vince etc.....) You need one of those type of players on your tema to seriously compete. Lee is too slow to even think about guarding any of the afforementioned wing players in this league. He's been killed defensively in every game he's started (Simmons Killed him and Marion roasted him) Lee is a tweener, a spark pulg off the bench for a good team. Ariza gives good energy off the bench, but he's not the defender that everyone thinks he is. I'm constantly seeing him get lit up despite his effort.

J-craw is too incosistant to rely on as a starter. He's also not a good enough defender. Nate is a specialist and is way too small to be starting in the same backcourt with Marbury. Its fine now, because we have no where else to turn, but in the near future, Nate needs to return to the bench. Marbury is strong, but too small (6'1) to be guarding 2's. Not only do they shot right over him, but imgine Marbury chasing Rip Hamilton around mountains of screens for 40 plus minutes then trying to run the team, penetrate and score or dish. Thats Too much.

Again, we need a reliable SF who can somewhat hold his own against tthe other elite SF and we need a consistant shooting 2G.
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
joec32033
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1/10/2006  12:45 PM
Not for anything, but the only one of those guys who have won championships is Kobe and he did it with Shaq. The last Championships were won by a team of hardworking role players (Rip and Sheed are hardly dominant) and a team with possibly the best big man in the league (SA also doesn't have the so called dominant wing player).

Also the win percentages combined of the teams with these dominant wing players are:

Cavs--- .645
Houston .375
Boston- .382
LA---- .529
Miami- .571
NJ---- .613

Avg. is a .519 win percentage.

Keep in mind, Miami has Shaq and NJ has 2 dominant wings (Vince and Jefferson), and a great PG. Even Cleveland has a true good center that requires attention in Z.
~You can't run from who you are.~
bigbeast
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1/10/2006  1:05 PM
Posted by joec32033:

Not for anything, but the only one of those guys who have won championships is Kobe and he did it with Shaq. The last Championships were won by a team of hardworking role players (Rip and Sheed are hardly dominant) and a team with possibly the best big man in the league (SA also doesn't have the so called dominant wing player).

Also the win percentages combined of the teams with these dominant wing players are:

Cavs--- .645
Houston .375
Boston- .382
LA---- .529
Miami- .571
NJ---- .613

Avg. is a .519 win percentage.

Keep in mind, Miami has Shaq and NJ has 2 dominant wings (Vince and Jefferson), and a great PG. Even Cleveland has a true good center that requires attention in Z.
I knew someone would mention that those elite wings don't have any rings.

First off, Spurs have the most dominant post player in the game. Curry is good and going to get better, but I doubt he'll turn into a Duncan.

Lakers had Shaq. At the time he was the most dominant big-man. But he wouldn't have had any rings without Kobe.

But if you looks Spurs and Pistons, Rip and Manu are nearly two times better than anything we have on the wings. The commitement to defense that those two teams have are incredible. Knicks are far from that. Lee on the wings isn't helping matters any because he cant guard any of the wing players in this league. Neither can Ariza. Neither can CRaw and Marbury is too small to guard 2's and its too tiring for him to chase 2's through screens and run the show and score.

Do you doubt for a minute with the right team around him, Lebron isn't gonna get a shot a ring? If Tmac and Yoa were healthy, they would arguable be at least the third-fourth best team out west
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
joec32033
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1/11/2006  9:00 AM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by joec32033:

Not for anything, but the only one of those guys who have won championships is Kobe and he did it with Shaq. The last Championships were won by a team of hardworking role players (Rip and Sheed are hardly dominant) and a team with possibly the best big man in the league (SA also doesn't have the so called dominant wing player).

Also the win percentages combined of the teams with these dominant wing players are:

Cavs--- .645
Houston .375
Boston- .382
LA---- .529
Miami- .571
NJ---- .613

Avg. is a .519 win percentage.

Keep in mind, Miami has Shaq and NJ has 2 dominant wings (Vince and Jefferson), and a great PG. Even Cleveland has a true good center that requires attention in Z.
I knew someone would mention that those elite wings don't have any rings.

First off, Spurs have the most dominant post player in the game. Curry is good and going to get better, but I doubt he'll turn into a Duncan.

Lakers had Shaq. At the time he was the most dominant big-man. But he wouldn't have had any rings without Kobe.

But if you looks Spurs and Pistons, Rip and Manu are nearly two times better than anything we have on the wings. The commitement to defense that those two teams have are incredible. Knicks are far from that. Lee on the wings isn't helping matters any because he cant guard any of the wing players in this league. Neither can Ariza. Neither can CRaw and Marbury is too small to guard 2's and its too tiring for him to chase 2's through screens and run the show and score.

Do you doubt for a minute with the right team around him, Lebron isn't gonna get a shot a ring? If Tmac and Yoa were healthy, they would arguable be at least the third-fourth best team out west


Bro, it sounds like you are making a case that great Bigs are what win you championhips...I am just pointing out these wings do not mean wins......We are seeing that Kobe and Pierce can not carry teams.

Shaq won a ring with a Kobe of what 4 years ago, before he was as great as he is now, as a complimentary player.

Yes the Spurs and Pistons have better wing players than we do BUT they are not dominant wings as you pointed out and they have big men (Duncan, Wallace0 that are some of the top big men in the league. the Pistons would be the exact example that you don't need dominant wings to win.

When Yao and TMAC were healthy, they weren't that good, Yao is still way too soft, IMO.

BTW, Orlando tried building around a wing or two a while ago (TMac and GHill) and granted hill was hurt a bit, but when he was healthy and averaging 15, 5, and 5 again, Orlando still wasn't that good.
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BRIGGS
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1/11/2006  9:47 AM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by joec32033:

Not for anything, but the only one of those guys who have won championships is Kobe and he did it with Shaq. The last Championships were won by a team of hardworking role players (Rip and Sheed are hardly dominant) and a team with possibly the best big man in the league (SA also doesn't have the so called dominant wing player).

Also the win percentages combined of the teams with these dominant wing players are:

Cavs--- .645
Houston .375
Boston- .382
LA---- .529
Miami- .571
NJ---- .613

Avg. is a .519 win percentage.

Keep in mind, Miami has Shaq and NJ has 2 dominant wings (Vince and Jefferson), and a great PG. Even Cleveland has a true good center that requires attention in Z.
I knew someone would mention that those elite wings don't have any rings.

First off, Spurs have the most dominant post player in the game. Curry is good and going to get better, but I doubt he'll turn into a Duncan.

Lakers had Shaq. At the time he was the most dominant big-man. But he wouldn't have had any rings without Kobe.

But if you looks Spurs and Pistons, Rip and Manu are nearly two times better than anything we have on the wings. The commitement to defense that those two teams have are incredible. Knicks are far from that. Lee on the wings isn't helping matters any because he cant guard any of the wing players in this league. Neither can Ariza. Neither can CRaw and Marbury is too small to guard 2's and its too tiring for him to chase 2's through screens and run the show and score.

Do you doubt for a minute with the right team around him, Lebron isn't gonna get a shot a ring? If Tmac and Yoa were healthy, they would arguable be at least the third-fourth best team out west


Bro, it sounds like you are making a case that great Bigs are what win you championhips...I am just pointing out these wings do not mean wins......We are seeing that Kobe and Pierce can not carry teams.

Shaq won a ring with a Kobe of what 4 years ago, before he was as great as he is now, as a complimentary player.

Yes the Spurs and Pistons have better wing players than we do BUT they are not dominant wings as you pointed out and they have big men (Duncan, Wallace0 that are some of the top big men in the league. the Pistons would be the exact example that you don't need dominant wings to win.

When Yao and TMAC were healthy, they weren't that good, Yao is still way too soft, IMO.

BTW, Orlando tried building around a wing or two a while ago (TMac and GHill) and granted hill was hurt a bit, but when he was healthy and averaging 15, 5, and 5 again, Orlando still wasn't that good.



Clev doesnt exactly have terrible big men, but they do have awful guards right now without Hughes. Even with Hughes in the line up, they need different types of role players, a different PG--eric snow is brutal and I dont want him for anyone. But Lebron James, to me, is a guy who is so good that at some point with the right guys around him, the right coach, hes going to go to some finals.
RIP Crushalot😞
joec32033
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1/11/2006  10:30 AM
Briggs, I agree....my counterpoint was that a great wing isn't a necessity to win a championship or win period. But because a great wing may win a championship with the right supporting cast and the right coach....I am not saying these guys aren't great idividual talents, just not necessities to win...
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bigbeast
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1/11/2006  10:49 AM
Kobe Bryant was not a compilmentary player. He was an allstar. Wasn't scoring as mush then as he is now but he was still one of the top 5 players in the league at the time.

T-mac had a bunch CBA players playing with him. Remove Tmac and put Duncan in his place and see how many rings Duncan would have.

We all know its essential to have a dominant big man to win but the game is slowl moving ina different direction. Hakeem, Jabbar, Parrish, Moses etc, are no longer around. Big man don't play in the post no more. They play on the perimeter now.

The pistons are like the Patriots. There a unique situation. An example of a TEAM. There best players are on the perimter (Billups, MVP of the team, Hamilton, Prince and even Rasheed plays on the perimter.) In order for the Knicks to really get it rolling, its essential that they get themselves a really good SF. Don;t get me wrong I love the way the Knicks are showing improve ment but to be an elite team they need a player that can get you a huge basket when all else fails similar to the way Lebron carried the cavs last night for long stretches when the offense was sputering. Had he gotten some help from his teamates who missed some wide open jumpers, they would have won.

[Edited by - bigbeast on 01-11-2006 10:51 AM]
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
joec32033
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1/11/2006  11:10 AM
Posted by bigbeast:

Kobe Bryant was not a compilmentary player. He was an allstar. Wasn't scoring as mush then as he is now but he was still one of the top 5 players in the league at the time.

T-mac had a bunch CBA players playing with him. Remove Tmac and put Duncan in his place and see how many rings Duncan would have.

We all know its essential to have a dominant big man to win but the game is slowl moving ina different direction. Hakeem, Jabbar, Parrish, Moses etc, are no longer around. Big man don't play in the post no more. They play on the perimeter now.

The pistons are like the Patriots. There a unique situation. An example of a TEAM. There best players are on the perimter (Billups, MVP of the team, Hamilton, Prince and even Rasheed plays on the perimter.) In order for the Knicks to really get it rolling, its essential that they get themselves a really good SF. Don;t get me wrong I love the way the Knicks are showing improve ment but to be an elite team they need a player that can get you a huge basket when all else fails similar to the way Lebron carried the cavs last night for long stretches when the offense was sputering. Had he gotten some help from his teamates who missed some wide open jumpers, they would have won.

[Edited by - bigbeast on 01-11-2006 10:51 AM]


Kobe was Scottie Pippen when Shaq was there. He was a complimentary All-Star. I am not denying his individual talent, just the notion that the wings garauntee you something oter than a great individual talent.

Duncan had alot of the guys he has now before they blew up (see Parker and Manu).

The Pistons are unique in that they don't have a true "1st tier best player" in the truest sense of the word.

~You can't run from who you are.~
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