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HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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7/22/2002  3:03 PM
Posted by nwny:

HARDCOREKNICKSFAN: Only three times in the history of the NBA has a seriously injured player, pull a “Willis Reed” type of performance. 1-Reed. 2-Isahia Thomas 3-Jordan. What’s makes it so special is that it’s rare. If Peja had put a “Willis Reed” that would put him in a class with the aforementioned three. And he’s not, so I would never say that, and I didn’t.
I know, but your statement that:
"I like Spree, and AH, trust me when I tell that the Kings wouldn’t take both of them for Peja. He’s that good. He could easily lead the league in scoring if Sac didn’t have so many other scorers"
(your quote) sounds like you're blowing the Peja horn kind've hard, wouldn't you think?

Second Peja is not soft. I have “NBA league pass” so I see more than my fair share of NBA games. Trust me when I tell you if you saw more of him you wouldn’t say he soft. No one has ever accused him of being soft. Where are the facts to back this up?
Peja just seems to have a very nonchalant on-court demeanor.

Spree more heart than Peja? Umm, I’ll give you that one. Houston? Come on. Allan himself wouldn’t even make that statement.
OK, You got that one about Houston. That's why Houston needs to be traded. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link...

Dan1078: Spree is a better defender, but not so much so as to out-weight the fact that Peja is better all around player.
I'd like to see Peja without all that post presence to play with, and see if he has a better year than Spree.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
AUTOADVERT
ClydeDaGlide
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7/22/2002  3:47 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:

"Wow, lets not go nuts. Peja is a good player, but he isn't great. He isn't even the second best player on his team. Bibby is a much stronger player, both offensivly and defensivly."-Bibby played tremendous in the playoffs, but he isn't as good as Peja was when he as healthy during the regular season. Look at the numbers:
SPG-Adv. Peja (21.2) over Bibby (13.7)
APG-Adv. Bibby (5.0) over Peja (2.5)
RPG-Adv. Peja (5.3) over Bibby (2.8)
SPG-Adv. Peja (1.14) over Bibby (1.09)
BPG-Adv. Peja (0.20) over Bibby (0.19)
FG%-Adv. Peja (.484) over Bibby (.453)
FT%-Adv. Peja (.876) over Bibby (.803)
3p%-Adv. Peja (.416) over Bibby (.370)

So, Bibby dishes the rock well, but Peja is better at everything else.

"By the way, IF Peja was as good as you guys' PR department make him out to be, then why wasn't he the one who put SAC over the top versus the Lakers (and don't start the "he was hurt" stuff. If he's as spectacular as you are making him out to be, then he would've pulled a Willis Reed and played through the injury to make his team win)? Please, let's not blow this guy up."-Hardcore, we usually agree, but this is ridiculous. Pull a Willis Reed, it's not like everyone on the planet can play through pain like Willis Reed, who is a legend and hall-of-famer. Besides, the Knicks relied on Reed much more then the Kings did on Peja in that series because the Kings were so talented. Look at Peja's playoff numbers:
1st round- 20.5 ppg, 6.0 rpg
2nd round- 15.3 ppg, 8.0 rpg
Conf. Finals (got hurt)- 6.7 ppg, 5.0 rpg
It was clearly his injury.

And even if he was as good as Sprewell, why would the Kings shake up chemistry when they were a few bad calls away from the Finals?

Thats not the point, the only important stats are minutes, ppg, rpg, and apg. Bibby dishes the ball with the best of them, and can score if he has to. He is also clutch, and delievers in big time situations. Bibby facilitates scoring and winning...Peja does not. You aren't changing my mind on this issue, Peja is no Bibby, and you don't have to bring in a worthless stat like bpg (blocks?! for a guard?!) when discussing who is the better player...
I came here to drink beer and kick some ass, and we're almost out of beer...
ClydeDaGlide
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7/22/2002  3:57 PM
Oh and btw...
Bibby faces this competition:
Stephan Marbury
Gary Payton
Damon Stoudamire
Terrell Brandon
Steve Francis
Steve Nash
John Stockton
Nick Van Exel
and Jason Williams

while Peja plays against:
Michael Finley
Derek Anderson
Kobe Bryant
Shane Battier
Anfernee Hardaway
Cuttino Mobley
and Bonzi Wells...

Something tells me Bibby is playing against a little better competition than Peja...
I came here to drink beer and kick some ass, and we're almost out of beer...
BigSm00th
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7/22/2002  5:06 PM
"the only important stats are minutes, ppg, rpg, and apg." Peja has the advantage is minutes, ppg, and rpg, so I don't know what kind of point you're trying to make.

Fact of the matter is, the Kings wouldn't do that trade, so it's not worth arguing about.

[Edited by - bigsm00th on 07/22/2002 17:06:38]
#Knickstaps
ClydeDaGlide
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7/22/2002  6:25 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:

"the only important stats are minutes, ppg, rpg, and apg." Peja has the advantage is minutes, ppg, and rpg, so I don't know what kind of point you're trying to make.

Fact of the matter is, the Kings wouldn't do that trade, so it's not worth arguing about.

[Edited by - bigsm00th on 07/22/2002 17:06:38]

Okay, fine...I'll say it like this, Peja has a better shot at being traded than does Bibby. That make my point clear enough?
I came here to drink beer and kick some ass, and we're almost out of beer...
BigSm00th
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7/22/2002  8:04 PM
Indeed it does.
#Knickstaps
nwny
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7/22/2002  8:35 PM
Thats not the point, the only important stats are minutes, ppg, rpg, and apg. Bibby dishes the ball with the best of them, and can score if he has to. He is also clutch, and delievers in big time situations. Bibby facilitates scoring and winning...Peja does not. You aren't changing my mind on this issue, Peja is no Bibby,

You have just been exposed as someone who's never seen Bibby or Peja play except for this season's playoffs. If you had, you would know that it is Bibby who's no Peja not the other way around. Bibby had a breakout performance, and he’s about to enter in to the realm of elite point guards. Peja is already an elite SG, and has been for since 2000 season. You’re one of those guys who watches the occasional NBA game and makes sweeping judgments without facts.
WOODMANnYk
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7/22/2002  8:45 PM
[quote]Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

By the way, IF Peja was as good as you guys' PR department make him out to be, then why wasn't he the one who put SAC over the top versus the Lakers (and don't start the "he was hurt" stuff. If he's as spectacular as you are making him out to be, then he would've pulled a Willis Reed and played through the injury to make his team win)? Please, let's not blow this guy up.

[quote]
I guess you didn't read what i said about him being seriously injured during the semi- western conference. [quote]This boy is bad!!HE's only 25 and will get better. It's too bad he wasn't 100% vs the Lakers.. Imagine if he had played the whole lakers/Sac series, it would've been a different story.The kings didn't have their full squad vs the lakers but that is part of the game. This Peja is better than H20 and Spree, no doubt..
Bibby only started doing his thang during the playoffs and you people wanna give him props already. He really isn't all that cause if he was then Grizzlies wouldv'e never traded him away....

[Edited by - knicksbb10 on 07/22/2002 20:46:41]
The Future. GO KNICKS!
ClydeDaGlide
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7/23/2002  12:24 PM
Posted by nwny:
Thats not the point, the only important stats are minutes, ppg, rpg, and apg. Bibby dishes the ball with the best of them, and can score if he has to. He is also clutch, and delievers in big time situations. Bibby facilitates scoring and winning...Peja does not. You aren't changing my mind on this issue, Peja is no Bibby,

You have just been exposed as someone who's never seen Bibby or Peja play except for this season's playoffs. If you had, you would know that it is Bibby who's no Peja not the other way around. Bibby had a breakout performance, and he’s about to enter in to the realm of elite point guards. Peja is already an elite SG, and has been for since 2000 season. You’re one of those guys who watches the occasional NBA game and makes sweeping judgments without facts.

Listen, I don't mind admitting that I don't watch the Kings religiously, and I will also admit to having only watched maybe 2 of their non-playoff games this year, but my argument remains. My point is simply that Bibby facilitates scoring, and I am not drawing that conclusion form the playoffs, I am drawing it from s**tty basketball games (Grizzlies games) that I had watched for a year and a half as the rockets (a fav. team of mine) frequently play the Grizzlies. He has always been a great point guard, only now has he had the supporting cast. Remember this guy in college? Arizon? as a sophmore and as a freshman this guy was incredible, leading his team past Kentuky to the NCAA crown...I remember when it was rumored the Knicks were going to acquire him, and thats when I really started taking notice. Don't try to tell me I don't know Mike Bibby, I've been following his career for years. As for Peja, who cares! He's no Bibby...

[Edited by - ClydeDaGlide on 07/23/2002 12:26:11]
I came here to drink beer and kick some ass, and we're almost out of beer...
fishmike
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7/23/2002  2:29 PM
that trade is bad, for the Knicks. The Kings would love to have Spree, especially as he is a proved playoff performer, elimination games being his best. The problem is the Knicks trade their one chip in Thomas and best player (Spree) for a max contract with bad feet, and a point guard with good stats on a terrible team. The trade that makes more sense for everyone is the Knicks/Cavs/Clips.
Knicks trade: Houston, Thomas
Knicks get: Illgauskus, Odom
Cavs trade: Illgauskus, Miller
Cavs get: Wilcox, Houston
Clips trade Odom, Wilcox
Clips get: Miller, Thomas

It makes sense for everyone. The Cavs lose a terrible contract. They take on Houston's equal deal, but at least he's productive. The Clips want Miller, the Knicks get their SF Odom, and a center who may or may not work out, but Odom is worth it. Cash and future picks from the Knicks would no doubt be included.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nyvector16
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7/23/2002  3:14 PM
The trade that makes more sense for everyone is the Knicks/Cavs/Clips.
Knicks trade: Houston, Thomas
Knicks get: Illgauskus, Odom
Cavs trade: Illgauskus, Miller
Cavs get: Wilcox, Houston
Clips trade Odom, Wilcox
Clips get: Miller, Thomas
It makes sense for everyone. The Cavs lose a terrible contract. They take on Houston's equal deal, but at least he's productive. The Clips want Miller, the Knicks get their SF Odom, and a center who may or may not work out, but Odom is worth it. Cash and future picks from the Knicks would no doubt be included.

I Love this trade!!! Fishmike makes some very nice points.
Hands down... the best (and most feasible) trade possobility since all these rumors started surfacing after Draft day. I would love to see this happen.
killacross
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7/23/2002  4:43 PM
Posted by nyvector16:

[quote]The trade that makes more sense for everyone is the Knicks/Cavs/Clips.
Knicks trade: Houston, Thomas
Knicks get: Illgauskus, Odom
Cavs trade: Illgauskus, Miller
Cavs get: Wilcox, Houston
Clips trade Odom, Wilcox
Clips get: Miller, Thomas
It makes sense for everyone. The Cavs lose a terrible contract. They take on Houston's equal deal, but at least he's productive. The Clips want Miller, the Knicks get their SF Odom, and a center who may or may not work out, but Odom is worth it. Cash and future picks from the Knicks would no doubt be included.

As much as I would love for this trade to happen, the cavs would not do it. They have said time and time again that they want young players with low salaries in return for miller. You guys might argue that if we take zydrunas' contract off their hands they would do it. You have to remember that houston's contract is 2 years longer than zydrunas'. Chance of happening 15%
ya cant stop me, you can only hope to contain me
nwny
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7/23/2002  4:51 PM
As for Peja, who cares! He's no Bibby...

Ha, ha, ha, you are correct. He's no Bibby, he's better!!!
nwny
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7/23/2002  4:56 PM
The Kings would love to have Spree, especially as he is a proved playoff performer, elimination games being his best.

Sorry Fishmike the Kings have already said they don't want Spree. They said the same thing last year too. They think (and remember I said they, not me), think that they already have two players better than Spree at the two positions he could play SG, and SF.
fishmike
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7/23/2002  5:23 PM
did they say that before or after Peja, Christie, Webber, Turko and Jackson all looked like a dear in headlights everytime they touched the ball in the 4th? They have alot of talent on the team but no finishers. Spree is that kind of player. Divac and Bibby are the only guys who didnt lay eggs in crunchtime for that team. Bibby has a good series and all of the sudden everyone forgot about what a barely above average point guard he's been for the past 3 years. Oh well, personally I dont want to see Spree go at all, and I hope Layden surrounds Houston/Spree/Dice with some decent role players like Detroit did for Stack. If someone does go it better be for equal talent and someone young.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BigSm00th
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7/23/2002  6:12 PM
Hedo's never played big minutes till last year. Peja was hurt. Jackson played well down the stretch. The Kings will give it one more whirl before shaking things up.
#Knickstaps
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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7/23/2002  6:41 PM
Posted by knicksbb10:

Bibby only started doing his thang during the playoffs and you people wanna give him props already. He really isn't all that cause if he was then Grizzlies wouldv'e never traded him away....
Yeah, and the Kings are just going to let him walk. Watch him get the MAX like he deserves, "all that" or not.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
WOODMANnYk
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7/23/2002  11:46 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:
Posted by knicksbb10:

Bibby only started doing his thang during the playoffs and you people wanna give him props already. He really isn't all that cause if he was then Grizzlies wouldv'e never traded him away....
Yeah, and the Kings are just going to let him walk. Watch him get the MAX like he deserves, "all that" or not.
i dont know about that, from last report, they're far from agreeing on a new contract.. You must realize that soon as Peja came to the league, he was a deadly weapon but Bibby was your decent pg then blew up in the playoffs and you people act like he's magic jognson, plueeeezeeee!!!
The Future. GO KNICKS!
ClydeDaGlide
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7/24/2002  8:41 AM
Posted by nwny:
As for Peja, who cares! He's no Bibby...

Ha, ha, ha, you are correct. He's no Bibby, he's better!!!

One man's opinion...like it or not, Bibby is far more valuable to that team than Peja...anyone who doesn't see that, doesn't know basketball...
I came here to drink beer and kick some ass, and we're almost out of beer...
nwny
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7/24/2002  6:10 PM
One man's opinion...like it or not, Bibby is far more valuable to that team than Peja...anyone who doesn't see that, doesn't know basketball...
I knew you would get to the lowest common denominator eventually.
You can't make your point with facts so you attempt an insult.
Weak.
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