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Post players make difference==also little big man needs props
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TheloniusMonk
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1/10/2006  6:55 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by boomann:
Robinson is #10 on the rookies list right now.

I know where they put him I just don't agree with Calderon, Stoudamire and dude with the long name being ahead of him. He is doing better then all three of them dudes

what the...

Charlie V for the season is averaging 12 pts 5 rebs on 48% shooting and has half the turnovers Little Man Nate has while playing 5 more minutes.



[Edited by - McK1 on 01-10-2006 6:50 PM]

How does one even bring up turnovers when comparing a guard and a bigman? Nate handles the rock alot during the course of a game. This is what a guard does. Nate's turnovers have come mainly from bad passes. In those situations he's trying to set up a teammate. How many times is Charlie V (or many other big men) handling the rock or trying to set people up? In fact Charlie V doesn't handle the ball at all. Nor should he. Turnovers are a nonfactor when comparing guards and bigmen.

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McK1
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1/10/2006  6:57 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by boomann:
Robinson is #10 on the rookies list right now.

I know where they put him I just don't agree with Calderon, Stoudamire and dude with the long name being ahead of him. He is doing better then all three of them dudes

what the...

Charlie V for the season is averaging 12 pts 5 rebs on 48% shooting and has half the turnovers Little Man Nate has while playing 5 more minutes.



[Edited by - McK1 on 01-10-2006 6:50 PM]

How does one even bring up turnovers when comparing a guard and a bigman? Nate handles the rock alot during the course of a game. This is what a guard does. Nate's turnovers have come mainly from bad passes. In those situations he's trying to set up a teammate. How many times is Charlie V (or many other big men) handling the rock or trying to set people up? In fact Charlie V doesn't handle the ball at all. Nor should he. Turnovers are a nonfactor when comparing guards and bigmen.

so why does Ed Curry have one of the higher turnovers per game average then

[Edited by - McK1 on 01-10-2006 6:59 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
TheloniusMonk
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1/10/2006  7:03 PM
^^^^But what does that have to do with guards? lol Charlie has good hands when he catches the ball. Curry has fumbled a few plus Curry has a power game where he is called for the offensive foul often. Point he EDDY IS THROWN THE BALL! CHARLIE V IS THROWN THE BALL! Guards HANDLE the ball. You can't even compare the pertage of time Nate has the ball in his hands (dribbling, passing and driving) to that of a big man. Makes no sense.
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McK1
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1/10/2006  7:09 PM
turnovers matter regardless of who is the one committing them. Maybe in fantasy land you can ignore it but its a factor in the NBA. Charlie V plays a lot of the time on the perimeter. The fact that he is 6' 0 out there in small man's world not losing the ball is noteworthy.

Alot of Nates TO's come from bad plays period!
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
TheloniusMonk
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1/10/2006  7:19 PM
^^^^if u don't understand that guards handle the ball and bigmen don't i don't know what to tell u.
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McK1
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1/10/2006  7:29 PM
what does your statement have to do with the amount of bad plays Nate makes while handling?

Not all guards turn the ball over as much as Nate.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
martin
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1/10/2006  7:35 PM
Posted by McK1:

what does your statement have to do with the amount of bad plays Nate makes while handling?

Not all guards turn the ball over as much as Nate.

I don't think you get what Monk is saying. Read it closely. He is comparing Big men with Guards and how much each handles the ball and are apt to turn the ball over.
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TheloniusMonk
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1/10/2006  7:37 PM
Now you're comparing Nate to guards. This isn't about Nate and other guards. It's about the concept of comparing a guard to a big man.

We're never gonna see eye to eye on this my man. You're the guy who tries to say a certain Seattle player is better than Steph....and it ain't Ray Allen. Master comparing guards with other guards first. lol
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McK1
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1/10/2006  7:38 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:

what does your statement have to do with the amount of bad plays Nate makes while handling?

Not all guards turn the ball over as much as Nate.

I don't think you get what Monk is saying. Read it closely. He is comparing Big men with Guards and how much each handles the ball and are apt to turn the ball over.

I did get his original point. Thats why i mentioned Curry and his high turnover rate.
to refute that its strictly a positional thing.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
martin
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1/10/2006  7:41 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:

what does your statement have to do with the amount of bad plays Nate makes while handling?

Not all guards turn the ball over as much as Nate.

I don't think you get what Monk is saying. Read it closely. He is comparing Big men with Guards and how much each handles the ball and are apt to turn the ball over.

I did get his original point. Thats why i mentioned Curry and his high turnover rate.
to refute that its strictly a positional thing.

no man, giving one example is a poor arguement - I can give you a guard with less TOs, does that justify Monk's side of the argument? No. If you give the average numbers for all big men and all guards and come to a conclusion, then you have something. Try again.
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McK1
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1/10/2006  7:43 PM
the comparison was Charlie V - another perimeter who touches the ball just as much - to Nate.


that is a fair comparison unless you are really that naive to believe of the two only Nate passes the ball when he touches it.


[Edited by - McK1 on 01-10-2006 7:44 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
martin
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1/10/2006  7:46 PM
Posted by McK1:

the comparison was Charlie V - another perimeter who touches the ball just as much - to Nate.


that is a fair comparison unless you are really that naive to believe of the two only Nate passes the ball when he touches it.


[Edited by - McK1 on 01-10-2006 7:44 PM]

So you are comparing Charlie V and Nate and making the underlying assumption that each handles the ball as much as they other? Didn't know Charlie brought the ball up the court as much as our little man or took it in traffic as much as Nate or was repsonsible for distributing the ball in traffic or to the post as much as Nate.

wow. good one.
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McK1
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1/10/2006  7:50 PM
if you watch a Raptors game you would see Charlie does everything you said Nate does with the exception of bringing it up.

but then there is not much of a chance of turning the ball over just trying to get it over the timeline so that factor is void.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Masterplan
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1/10/2006  8:08 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by boomann:
Robinson is #10 on the rookies list right now.

I know where they put him I just don't agree with Calderon, Stoudamire and dude with the long name being ahead of him. He is doing better then all three of them dudes

what the...

Charlie V for the season is averaging 12 pts 5 rebs on 48% shooting and has half the turnovers Little Man Nate has while playing 5 more minutes.



[Edited by - McK1 on 01-10-2006 6:50 PM]

not to interrupt a lively debate, but i don't think booman was saying nate should be higher than charlie v. i think by "dude with the long name" he meant saurunas j-whoever on the pacers. charlie is a pretty clear competitor with channing for runner-up ROY, channing probably with the edge now. nate should be a tier below, a rookie contributing but still lower on the learning curve. nate is awesome, the TO's will correct themselves soon enough.
TheloniusMonk
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1/10/2006  8:19 PM
Posted by McK1:

if you watch a Raptors game you would see Charlie does everything you said Nate does with the exception of bringing it up.

but then there is not much of a chance of turning the ball over just trying to get it over the timeline so that factor is void.

LOL MAN.....it's not what u do....it's HOW OFTEN ONE DOES IT THROUGH THE COURSE OF A GAME.

It is a fact that Nate handles the ball way more than Charlie V when in the game heightening his chances to make turnovers. A guard has more decisions to make with the ball.......and MUCH more often. This is expected of them. I don't see why that's so hard to understand lol

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McK1
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1/10/2006  8:26 PM
tru
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
McK1
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1/10/2006  8:30 PM
so tell me Monk, those last 2 Robinson turnovers are b/c he is a guard or bad decision maker
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
TheloniusMonk
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1/10/2006  8:42 PM
Posted by McK1:

so tell me Monk, those last 2 Robinson turnovers are b/c he is a guard or bad decision maker

WOW!!!! You have totally missed the point of the convo. lol

Never mind. I cannot explain it anymore than me and Martin have already done. Maybe it's not meant for you to understand yet. One of these days I'm sure.
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McK1
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1/10/2006  8:44 PM
true
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Killa4luv
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1/11/2006  11:22 AM
Posted by McK1:

what does your statement have to do with the amount of bad plays Nate makes while handling?

Not all guards turn the ball over as much as Nate.

Stevie Nash leads the league in turnovers. Why? is he a bad decision maker, or does it have something to do with the fact that he has the ball in his hands 95% of the time?

[Edited by - killa4luv on 01-11-2006 11:25 AM]
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Post players make difference==also little big man needs props
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