Allan's face may have been stone but he didn't slump his shoulders and plod off the court looking beaten. Allan never glared at his PGs for bad passes. Allan was never accused of being a fuss pot with coaches or teammates. Allan was neutral, where Steph is a downer.

That maybe the truth, but maybe it's when people blow the EASY layups that Stephon glares at his teammates. It may or may not be the right thing to do, but how many other players do it. I'm sure the Kobes, LeBrons, T Macs, Pierce's, Kidds and Iverson's have done it a fair share too and deserve equal criticism.

D'Antonio and Colangelo gave up on Steph just months after his most notable performance ever (against the Spurs) and after rewarding him with an enormous contractual reward. At the time Steph was still widely regarded as possibly the best player on the young team with a bright future. They dumped him for 'garbage'.

The Suns didn't give up on Steph. They realized that he was a great scorer on a team with a bunch of really good scorers and they needed a PG, so they took the chance to rid themselves of the worst contract so they could sign a pure PG who could compliment each and every one of their skills. Marbury isn't a pure PG. He is a great scorer who happens to be a very good passer. That's his game. It wasn't best suited for the Suns. It CAN be suited well here if we surround Marbury with the right players. If the guys we have now turn out to be the way they should, then you'll be saying how Marbury has become such an unselfish player and has worked so hard to fit in LBs system. Give it another year or so.

Now, in NYC, I'm not the only one who suspects that our historically abominable record since his 'I'm the best' is NOT a coincidence. After all, we were 16-13 before it. Obviously, just uttering those words does not create a tailspin, but alienated teammates who leave your butt to hang to dry does. Abysmal team chemistry, questioned agendas, and guys who don't mind to be traded does.

Our downfall after that had little to do with Marbury. His defense was TERRIBLE, but so was just about everyone else's besides KTs and JYDs. The reason we got all the way up there was because Nazr was playing at such a high level (Remember he had that 7 block game against NJ?) and Houston was able to run and contribute. Just his presence alone was huge. But then Nazrs groin was injured and Houston couldn't go on anymore. We got unhealthier and unhealthier and the losses kept piling on. Marbury consistently did what he was supposed to do, besides play defense. Again, it just wasn't his game. The Knicks staff weren't beating it in his head.

I am not a Marbury "Apologist." Anyone can tell you that, b/c he has heard a ton of criticism from me. But he has recieved a severe beating from the fans and media for what? B/c his looks are bad? Please. His looks aren't the reason for Eddie Curry being and idiot and Jamal not knowing what to do yet and Frye being a rookie.

Posted by Allanfan20:


The Suns didn't give up on Steph. They realized that he was a great scorer on a team with a bunch of really good scorers and they needed a PG, so they took the chance to rid themselves of the worst contract so they could sign a pure PG who could compliment each and every one of their skills. Marbury isn't a pure PG. He is a great scorer who happens to be a very good passer. That's his game. It wasn't best suited for the Suns. It CAN be suited well here if we surround Marbury with the right players. If the guys we have now turn out to be the way they should, then you'll be saying how Marbury has become such an unselfish player and has worked so hard to fit in LBs system. Give it another year or so.

I agree with most of the above but IMHO I would say this about Steph: Marbury isnn't a pure PG. He is a great scorer who likes the ball in hands a lot of the time ad can beat his man off the dribble and get to the rim just about whenever he wants. Very good passer? Don't know about that. Maybe. Nowhere near excellent. Not very creative passer either.

Do you guys even realize how hard Steph plays every night for this team? You guys make it sound like he doesn't do anything. He's consistently the biggest performer on this squad and if we had a few guys who matched his level everynight, we'd be winning games. Steph has been asked to play D on bigger players all season and he's done it very well. Steph gets banged and hit on every possession. When he's getting picked or getting hit hard on his drives and the guys just keeps going. He's playing everygame and logging big minutes. If anyone on the team has at least been giving everything he has for most of the season its been Steph. NO ONE ELSE does more for this team. All while being bashed by his coach, the media and Fans. Its just amazing how guys around here have no appreciation for what the man is going thru. You wanna talk about Clyde, I love him, but he NEVER had to play with a team like this so don't even bring him up. You guys don't know what he would do in the same situation.

You try to look enthused when your coach puts you out there with AD, James, Ariza and Q! None of those guys can score. HEY how about LB coach like he knows what the hell he's doing. You can't tell me that he's done a good job. You think its Steph's fault that guys haven't been hitting wide open shots. Do you want him to also make Q's shots for him? UNREAL just un-freakin-believeable how you guys continue to bash the man with no understanding of what's really going on. I thought NY fans were freakin knowledgeable.

How many times did Clyde steal the ball with the flick of his hand and score on a layup on the other end without any defender able to catch up?

Marbury needs to change his mindset from "all alone" to "hit the first open man" and go from there. As evidenced in the first half, he can lead as he wants. He does not understand how good a basketball family can feel.

Did Marbury ever watch Magic Johnson lead the Lakers showtime?

Imagine THAT type of enthusiasm in The Garden

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by misterearl:

Clyde never expressed emotion.

Then again, he had the phat orange Pumas.

Clyde is EXACTLY who Steph should be studying.

He was a scoring PG who allowed himself to play pass-first for the good of the team. He's said many times that both he and Reed willfully sacrificed their scoring for the good of the team. He was much like Billips in that he was not gifted with the eyes of Kidd, Stockton or Magic, but he made sound passes with good decision making,

Even though Clyde led the team in scoring in their '73 championship season he considered himself a defender first, a playmaker second, and a scorer last. He was also a large part of a team experts consider to be one of the best examples of teamwork and chemistry the sport has ever known- and on-court and off.

And while his persona may not have been rah-rah there was never doubt about his team orientation, floor stewardship, IQ, or coolness under fire.

Clyde led on both ends of the court, and teammates NEVER had to worry about his face, his commitment, or what side of the fence he was on.

Thank you for that!

BUt Stumpbury must find his own style. I thought Magic Johnson was a bit too much, but the great ones find a way to be a rock and see thru the moment and get the job done. Marbs must first build a rep by example and then create his character at the same time.

Quite frankly, he need not be a leader but just be neutral and FOLLOW whomever emerges. He can be the tempermental SG would be fine with me. I would prefer to just let marbs bring it up some, but not make him into somthing he cannot do. Lets lower the bar and let him be sucessful.

Yeah Clyde was the man. Marbury probably has as much talent as him though. Can't shoot as well but drives stronger. Marbs not as good defensively or in the clutch. But just for demeanor alone, Marbs should have to study tape of Clyde.

It is strange to compare Marbs with Clyde, Kidd, or Stokton.
He is stuppid but all this pointguards are smart people.
He is dumb on the court, in the locker room, and in life.
And it is no way to make a stuppid persone smart. He has natural gift to play basketboll and this should be used as much as possible but his IQ is so low that it is strange to ask to much from him.
By the way the law IQ is the overal problem of this team and this reflects the law IQ of the people who assembled this group of athletic fools.

>Marbury surely needs to find his own way, but Clyde dispels the notion that PGs can't be both scorers and consummate team players, and that one needs to be overtly smiley or emotive to lead. In basketball one wears their heart on the floor, not on their face.


Blue Seats - outstanding piece of writing. The more I read your posts, the more I realize you can out-anaylyze many of thoses who get paid to do so in the daily rags. The quallity of your thought and composition is at the highest level for this forum. Well done.

Marbury could learn to play any way he wanted, and make us all smile, if he embraced the team concept like a cuddly puppy.

Posted by djsunyc:

for those that don't know, blue seats is really magic johnson.

well then why should we listen to him, hes cheated on his wife in the past...

Posted by Killa4luv:

Clyde is obviously a nice guy who has a very upbeat, cheery and positive demeanor. He says he never got real friendly with other players, and probably wasn't a nice guy on the court, but he is still a far cry as an individual than who marbs is or should aspire to be.

Marbs grew up in Coney Island, one of the roughest neigborhoods in New York at that time (and still is!). Asking him to copy Clyde's demeanor is way off base imo.

Marbs needs to copy Isiah, another Hall of Fame PG from a rough part of town.

Killa, I will give you the benefit of the doubt since you are young and did not have the privilege of watching Clyde lead the Knicks to 2 titles. BlueSeats has pretty much said all that needs to be said about what Frazier brought to the Knicks, but I will just add this: great players make other players better. Clyde may have been cool and reserved on the court, (and since when does being a 'nice guy' on the court matter, if you're getting the job done) but he operated briliantly within the system devised by his coach, which was to: 1) Hit the open man, and (2) Don't hesitate to score if you find yourself the open man.

I don't live in NY, so I don't get to see Marbury as often as you guys do, but from what I have seen, there's a self-absorption to his character that Clyde never had. The sulking if things don't go his way, the tendency to disappear for long stretches, the sullen reproaching of teammates - this is Marbury on a losing team, and there've been many.

Now what Clyde had that Marbury has yet to have in NY are teammates who could score. The tragedy of Marbury's tenure in NY may be that he never gets to play with a single scoring threat. He never got to experience Allan Houston the way Clyde got to experience Earl Monroe, and that's a shame. But even a bad supporting cast doesn't vindicate Marbury. When he had a brilliant big man alongside him - KG in Minnesota - he couldn't make that work either, because KG would always be The Man. And that, to me, is Marbury's true downfall, as has already been better stated on this thread: his ego will always get in the way of what his priorities should be.

who gives a crap about body language?

No one when we're winning.