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Odom will be available at the trade deadline because .................
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Killa4luv
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12/30/2005  3:24 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

I'm telling you, Isiah's making a HUGE mistake.

The same mistake Jerry West found out after last year. A team that can score alot of points will NEVER win.

NEVER.

Ever heard of this team call the lakers?
AUTOADVERT
bobs3304
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12/30/2005  3:29 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

Ever heard of this team call the lakers?

Ya....I have.


They played pretty damn good defense. Oh....and they had 2 of the top 5 most dominant players in the league.

Helps out.....doesn't it.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Bonn1997
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12/30/2005  3:37 PM
Odom's a bad defensive player? That's news to me!
bigbeast
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12/30/2005  3:58 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

See this is the misconception among Knick fans that kills me.

You think we're a SF away from contention.

And last year we were a Center away from contention.


Our problem is simple -- our players don't play hard, and they don't play defense or rebound.

The only guys that do any of that are Nate, Crawford, AD, and at times Frye and Lee.

This team is so ****ed up. Lamar Odom won't be the difference for us IMO b/c he's a complementary player, not a star. That would be fine if we had the type of chemistry and selflessness and intangibles that the Pistons do, but we're so far away from that it's sad.

I wouldn't care if we went 0-82 if we played our ****in guts out every night. That's all I ask as a fan. But that's not possible until this black cloud is lifted off this franchise. That all starts by getting rid of 2 bigheads -- Isiah and Stephon.


And you know, it's sad too, b/c I see a little Starks in Marbury every now and then. But he's too selfish to ever become a team player. You won't win with your PG subconciously looking to score first. And LB refuses to move him to SG (which I've advocated for MONTHS), for whatever reason.

So that's the way it is.

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 12-30-2005 1:07 PM]


Read my post again. Never said Odom is going to put us over the top. He improves the team you can't deny that. Put him on this team right now and he's the best all around player in a blue and orange uni this year.
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
bobs3304
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12/30/2005  5:00 PM
^ Ya, but at what cost do you trade for him is the point.

Do you wanna be stuck 2 years from now as a 1st/2nd round playoff team with no room to budge? No draft picks, no cap room, all assets spent, STILL with no leader, no franchise star???

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 12-30-2005 5:01 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
BasketballJones
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12/30/2005  5:19 PM
Kobe Bryant was suspended for two games without pay Friday for elbowing Mike Miller in the throat.



Kobe: Was that wrong?
https:// It's not so hard.
OldFan
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12/30/2005  6:12 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

I'm telling you, Isiah's making a HUGE mistake.

The same mistake Jerry West found out after last year. A team that can score alot of points will NEVER win.

NEVER.


I agree about the defense. That is our biggest problem. But I think you're mistaken if you think this team has a lot of offensive talent. What it has is a lot of young athletic guys who don't know how to play. There was no way to get talented guys who knew how to play - those guys are stars and IT didn't have the ammo. So he went after guys who had talent but with lots of issues - lack of conditioning, lack of smarts etc.

He pulled in a couple of old vets who do how to play but had very little in the gas tank. What he ended up with is potential with no leadership and no basketball smarts. Some of our bad defense is actually caused by our offense - TO's lead to a lot of easy baskets.

Although I agree defense is more important this team has a long way to go on offense also.
bobs3304
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12/30/2005  6:53 PM
Listen, I never said Isiah didn't do SOME good things.

I've already said there have been individual moves that I favored.

But if you look at the broad scheme of things, he hasn't been consistent or set in his plans.

His moves have been sporatic. He's made moves just to make moves.

He talks now about "staying the course".

Well.....where was that 2 years ago? What happened to building on draft picks and defense then? Was it necessary to ADD to the payroll?

Me thinks not.

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 12-30-2005 6:54 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
JUNKMEIN
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12/30/2005  8:01 PM
Despite the fact that our record as of right now is much worse than last years Knicks team there's no one that can look me straight in the face and tell me that last years team is even remotely on par with this Knicks squad (and not be thought of as an idiot) .

It's very simple. The squad Isiah has put together is not nearly as bad as the schedule shows. The talent level on this squad is far far far beyond the squad of Tiny Tim, KT and Nazr on the Frontline.

Steph is a stud (brooding depressed slightly immature stud...yes..but a stud)...but he's gonna be gone eventually, Jamal, the kid is gonna be fine because all he's gotta do is keep on driving the lane with the occasion bang from the 3pt line. Curry had to be had (although I loved Sweetney game...though not his big ***) Curry showed me against the Magic that he will become a consistent presence in the middle when he gets his body right...and he will. KT, please....give me Nate, Frye, Ariza, Lee, Q1 and Q2 anyday.

Okay then, what's the mitigating factor? Larry Brown's System. Don't get me wrong, LB is a great coach but this was an incredibly poor fit for him. Isiah will lose flesh on this one.

Said it before but...this team needs to run an organized break. If LB had Billups, Reggie Miller, Wallace & Wallace, Smitz, The Davis Boys at 26, Mark Jackson at the point and Rip....well sure, then he could run this princeton style spread offense with crisp ball movement to back door cuts and 3 point bombers.

But, those guys aren't here. The present Knicks can do one thing....RUN. Let'em run an organized break...ala Phoenix and Memphis. Yeah, they're not winning a title with that right now (who thought they would?)..but they've got pieces.

Let'em RUN

[Edited by - Junkmein on 12-30-2005 8:06 PM]
bobs3304
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12/30/2005  8:06 PM
^ Agreed, but it should only be temporarily.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
JUNKMEIN
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12/30/2005  8:14 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

^ Agreed, but it should only be temporarily.

Well Bobs, that's the whole point. As a coach you have to fit your system to your talent...not the other way around. This point is unquestionable.

The best example i've ever seen of this is one Mister Patrick Riley. He had the smoothest center of his day and a 6'9" point who could pass when he was wearing diapers.....cool, run a fast break. He had a tough Center with an attitude in Ewing here with a plodding bouncer at the 4 and a helluva point guard running the show (never should have traded Mark Jackson)...cool, run a half court game. Lastly, you got the Diesel and Flash...dump it down low and...dump it down low

Run the break now and as we get more experience we can run more of a halfcourt set. A fast break simply means we get easy baskets and if it ain't there then we break into our halfcourt set...simple.

LB...he's gotta learn new tricks...get my drift?



[Edited by - Junkmein on 12-30-2005 8:18 PM]
SlimPack
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12/30/2005  8:37 PM
Posted by JUNKMEIN:
Posted by bobs3304:

^ Agreed, but it should only be temporarily.

Well Bobs, that's the whole point. As a coach you have to fit your system to your talent...not the other way around. This point is unquestionable.

The best example i've ever seen of this is one Mister Patrick Riley. He had the smoothest center of his day and a 6'9" point who could pass when he was wearing diapers.....cool, run a fast break. He had a tough Center with an attitude in Ewing here with a plodding bouncer at the 4 and a helluva point guard running the show (never should have traded Mark Jackson)...cool, run a half court game. Lastly, you got the Diesel and Flash...dump it down low and...dump it down low

Run the break now and as we get more experience we can run more of a halfcourt set. A fast break simply means we get easy baskets and if it ain't there then we break into our halfcourt set...simple.

LB...he's gotta learn new tricks...get my drift?



[Edited by - Junkmein on 12-30-2005 8:18 PM]

Id actually rather have LB here to mold our players into his proven system rather than taylor things to our guys strengths for the long run, the reason I say this is because our players strengths to be perfectly honest arent really all that strong, are you saying that you would rather have steph dominate the ball, and only pass sparingly and crawford chucking up 3 after 3?
JUNKMEIN
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12/30/2005  9:07 PM
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by JUNKMEIN:
Posted by bobs3304:

^ Agreed, but it should only be temporarily.

Well Bobs, that's the whole point. As a coach you have to fit your system to your talent...not the other way around. This point is unquestionable.

The best example i've ever seen of this is one Mister Patrick Riley. He had the smoothest center of his day and a 6'9" point who could pass when he was wearing diapers.....cool, run a fast break. He had a tough Center with an attitude in Ewing here with a plodding bouncer at the 4 and a helluva point guard running the show (never should have traded Mark Jackson)...cool, run a half court game. Lastly, you got the Diesel and Flash...dump it down low and...dump it down low

Run the break now and as we get more experience we can run more of a halfcourt set. A fast break simply means we get easy baskets and if it ain't there then we break into our halfcourt set...simple.

LB...he's gotta learn new tricks...get my drift?



[Edited by - Junkmein on 12-30-2005 8:18 PM]

are you saying that you would rather have steph dominate the ball, and only pass sparingly and crawford chucking up 3 after 3?

No, I said Steph is gonna be gone if you read my post before my last one. The guys a bad teammate because the other players have to walk on eggshells around him. It's like being married to someone who's mood swings flow with the tides. You never know what you're gonna get. He'll be gone before long.

Crawford, I stated all he has to do is keep driving the lane. He's shown to be very good at pulling up for the 10ft floaters in the lane. If you can find where I said Crawford should be chucking 3 after 3 please quote it for me. I stated "the occasional bang from 3"..meaning exactly what he's doing now. He's gonna be alright.


[/quote]
Id actually rather have LB here to mold our players into his proven system rather than taylor things to our guys strengths for the long run, the reason I say this is because our players strengths to be perfectly honest arent really all that strong
[/quote]

That's fine but most NY'ers won't be able to handle the amount of time it'll take to get the kind of players that are tailored to LB's system. hell we can't take 1/3rd of a year without calling for someone's head.


[Edited by - Junkmein on 12-30-2005 9:10 PM]
Ira
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12/31/2005  10:55 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Odom's a bad defensive player? That's news to me!


Me too. I'd love to get Odom. He has the kind of all around game you want at sf. But the only player that we have which might interest the Lakers is Frye and Isaiah isn't going to trade him.
Bonn1997
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12/31/2005  11:33 AM
If they want to save money and get young prospects, there's a chance they'd do something like Grant and Odom for Penny + AD plus any 1 of Nate, Ariza, Butler, Lee, SA 2006 #1 pick. They might require more than "any 1" of those players. They might want 2 or 3. I think that would be too much to give up for Odom though. I like Odom but I don't think he has a high enough intensity on offense on a consistent basis. He should be able to put 20 pts up every night with his skills.

Alternatively, if the Lakers feel they made a mistake with Kwame and want cap room in 2007, they could put Kwame in the deal instead of Grant and some other changes would be necessary to make the salaries match.
Marv
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12/31/2005  2:03 PM
Man I can't wait to see how Lamar plays in the next 2 games with Kobe out. Remember how good he was in Miami when he had some confidence going and Wade supporting him? I hope he kicks butt in the next 2 and and the Lakers do well and Phil has to step up and deal with a player that so far he's only had the balls to confront through the pages of a best-selling book when he hasn't been responsible for coaching him.
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Odom will be available at the trade deadline because .................
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