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What exactly has Isiah done as an executive anywhere
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jaydh
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12/29/2005  11:54 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by islesfan:

Aside from bashing Isiah, and you know I appreciate that, I'd still like to know why he gets as much slack as he does from people especially considering that LB seems to get none despite his vastly superior track record.

i'm giving them both as much slack as they need, i believe in both of them, and also believe in the direction we are going.


That's fine but were you the same way with Layden and every other GM?


couldnt stand layden; but when isiah starts building the team around past-their-prime and injured players let me know. liked checketts and grunfield..
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Killa4luv
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12/29/2005  12:06 PM
Posted by Knight:

^Yeah, the CBA was awesome! I miss the CBA so much, so many great memories, such history, I can't believe Isiah brought the CBA down.

LOL!
islesfan
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12/29/2005  12:11 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by islesfan:

Aside from bashing Isiah, and you know I appreciate that, I'd still like to know why he gets as much slack as he does from people especially considering that LB seems to get none despite his vastly superior track record.

i'm giving them both as much slack as they need, i believe in both of them, and also believe in the direction we are going.


That's fine but were you the same way with Layden and every other GM?


couldnt stand layden; but when isiah starts building the team around past-their-prime and injured players let me know. liked checketts and grunfield..

You mean like wasting the MLE on Vin Baker and Jerome James? Trading for Mo T or even Marbury who will be past his prime by the time people suggest we'll start being competitive? You mean like out of shape and/or injured players like Quentin Richardson, Eddy Curry?

Who are we building around now?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
martin
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12/29/2005  12:12 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Aside from bashing Isiah, and you know I appreciate that, I'd still like to know why he gets as much slack as he does from people especially considering that LB seems to get none despite his vastly superior track record.

I tell you why ANY GM would have given slack for this NY organization. Given the timeframe when Zeke took over, how many years would any reasonable GM say it would take to turn this franchise around to 50 wins. 2? 3? 5? Also, take into account that Houston is gone.

If you went with the wait, dump salary, draft heigh routine, I would say about 4-6 years. Isiah took another route, could we give him the same opporutnity? Or at least 3-4 years.

Also, what benchmarks do you think Dolan has set? That's the real marker of what he has been doing as a GM.
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Bippity10
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12/29/2005  12:12 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by islesfan:

Aside from bashing Isiah, and you know I appreciate that, I'd still like to know why he gets as much slack as he does from people especially considering that LB seems to get none despite his vastly superior track record.

i'm giving them both as much slack as they need, i believe in both of them, and also believe in the direction we are going.


That's fine but were you the same way with Layden and every other GM?


couldnt stand layden; but when isiah starts building the team around past-their-prime and injured players let me know. liked checketts and grunfield..



Aren't we building around Frye and Curry?????
I just hope that people will like me
jaydh
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12/29/2005  12:13 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by islesfan:

Aside from bashing Isiah, and you know I appreciate that, I'd still like to know why he gets as much slack as he does from people especially considering that LB seems to get none despite his vastly superior track record.

i'm giving them both as much slack as they need, i believe in both of them, and also believe in the direction we are going.


That's fine but were you the same way with Layden and every other GM?


couldnt stand layden; but when isiah starts building the team around past-their-prime and injured players let me know. liked checketts and grunfield..

You mean like wasting the MLE on Vin Baker and Jerome James? Trading for Mo T or even Marbury who will be past his prime by the time people suggest we'll start being competitive? You mean like out of shape and/or injured players like Quentin Richardson, Eddy Curry?

Who are we building around now?

oh, we were building around Vinny? Right now the team is built around JJ, and MoT? guards usually have a longer primetime(not sanders) then bigs. many here just say that because they dont like steph.

we are building around frye and curry. according to isiah ariza, Lee, JC also have a part in it.

[Edited by - jaydh on 12-29-2005 12:14 PM]

[Edited by - jaydh on 12-29-2005 12:14 PM]
nyk4ever
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12/29/2005  12:15 PM
The CBA was bankrupt before Isiah took it over. Get your facts straight people.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Bippity10
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12/29/2005  12:17 PM
Posted by islesfan:

That some of you are so willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and seemingly your undying loyalty and unending patience?

I don't quite remember as many people saying "Oh well, whats done is done", "Just give him a few years to see how things turn out" or "It's only his 3rd year, he needs at least 2-3 more to see how his moves turn out" when it came to Layden or any other GM that the Knicks have had. Why is Isiah different? Why does he get such a long leash?

Brown at the very least has a track record that is filled with successes and some of you are more than willing to blame/fire him after 20+ games but Isiah, with his track record of never having built a playoff team, gets years before we can judge him??? That doesn't make any sense.

I'm being very serious and I'd really like for someone to explain it to me. Thanks.


It's impossible to answer Isles. I think it's just the NY way. If we are losing go after the star player and the coach, everyone else gets a pass. Personally I'm as puzzled as you are about most of his moves but I do like the Curry signing and the pick of Frye. I think in the future they compliment each other perfectly. For me this has brought Isiah time to give an obvious sign of where we are going. This is an obvious adjustment to the orginal plan of Marbury and Houston. When star players retire you have to re-adujst. This was done. If I see draft picks coming back in trades I'm willing to say okay we have direction let's let LB and Zeke work together.

If the process continues I will be on board with you. I'm just personally not willing to call for firings after a year or two considering what the roster looked like before Zeke got here. He had to get rid of all on that roster and in return I knew we were getting overpaid and underachievers. We coulnd't acquire anythign else. But the long-term contracts adn Jerome James signings are very puzzling and are trying the most patient man on the planet. Sir Bippity.
I just hope that people will like me
jaydh
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12/29/2005  12:17 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

The CBA was bankrupt before Isiah took it over. Get your facts straight people.

no no, it was isiah... he brought it down all by himself. LOL, many NY fans are just haters. no other explanation for their wrongful accusations.
islesfan
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12/29/2005  12:20 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:

Aside from bashing Isiah, and you know I appreciate that, I'd still like to know why he gets as much slack as he does from people especially considering that LB seems to get none despite his vastly superior track record.

I tell you why ANY GM would have given slack for this NY organization. Given the timeframe when Zeke took over, how many years would any reasonable GM say it would take to turn this franchise around to 50 wins. 2? 3? 5? Also, take into account that Houston is gone.

If you went with the wait, dump salary, draft heigh routine, I would say about 4-6 years. Isiah took another route, could we give him the same opporutnity? Or at least 3-4 years.

Also, what benchmarks do you think Dolan has set? That's the real marker of what he has been doing as a GM.

At least when you dump salary and draft high you're getting cap room and solid picks to build a solid foundation. Where is our solid foundation? Where are our options to build around that foundation? If Isiah is going to take this route, by capping us out even further and trading away most of our high picks over the next few years, then he has to produce a lot faster. With this season being a waste Isiah has had 3 years. Do you see year 4 or even year 5 to be that much brighter? Especially with no lottery pick this year or next?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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12/29/2005  12:28 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by islesfan:

Aside from bashing Isiah, and you know I appreciate that, I'd still like to know why he gets as much slack as he does from people especially considering that LB seems to get none despite his vastly superior track record.

i'm giving them both as much slack as they need, i believe in both of them, and also believe in the direction we are going.


That's fine but were you the same way with Layden and every other GM?


couldnt stand layden; but when isiah starts building the team around past-their-prime and injured players let me know. liked checketts and grunfield..

You mean like wasting the MLE on Vin Baker and Jerome James? Trading for Mo T or even Marbury who will be past his prime by the time people suggest we'll start being competitive? You mean like out of shape and/or injured players like Quentin Richardson, Eddy Curry?

Who are we building around now?

oh, we were building around Vinny? Right now the team is built around JJ, and MoT? guards usually have a longer primetime(not sanders) then bigs. many here just say that because they dont like steph.

we are building around frye and curry. according to isiah ariza, Lee, JC also have a part in it.

[Edited by - jaydh on 12-29-2005 12:14 PM]

[Edited by - jaydh on 12-29-2005 12:14 PM]

So it's ok to waste your MLE and other assets on those players?!?

That's a HUGE assumption to say that Frye and Curry are foundation type players. Frye is a nice player but complimentary at best, not someone you build around. Curry with his poor work ethic, underwhelming defensive ability, lack of conditioning and his proneness to injury because of that is a questionable player to build around as well.

If Curry doesn't pan out as a franchise player do you even see how devastating that is going to be to this franchise?

Of course by then I'm sure Isiah will change direction again and say that he's now building around whoever else who shows some promise.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bippity10
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12/29/2005  12:29 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:

Aside from bashing Isiah, and you know I appreciate that, I'd still like to know why he gets as much slack as he does from people especially considering that LB seems to get none despite his vastly superior track record.

I tell you why ANY GM would have given slack for this NY organization. Given the timeframe when Zeke took over, how many years would any reasonable GM say it would take to turn this franchise around to 50 wins. 2? 3? 5? Also, take into account that Houston is gone.

If you went with the wait, dump salary, draft heigh routine, I would say about 4-6 years. Isiah took another route, could we give him the same opporutnity? Or at least 3-4 years.

Also, what benchmarks do you think Dolan has set? That's the real marker of what he has been doing as a GM.

At least when you dump salary and draft high you're getting cap room and solid picks to build a solid foundation. Where is our solid foundation? Where are our options to build around that foundation? If Isiah is going to take this route, by capping us out even further and trading away most of our high picks over the next few years, then he has to produce a lot faster. With this season being a waste Isiah has had 3 years. Do you see year 4 or even year 5 to be that much brighter? Especially with no lottery pick this year or next?


I'm with you this is a make or break year. The endign salaries and available young players needs to result in something.
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djsunyc
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12/29/2005  12:29 PM
he makes chocolate covered popcorn. that's borderline brilliant.
martin
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12/29/2005  12:33 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:

Aside from bashing Isiah, and you know I appreciate that, I'd still like to know why he gets as much slack as he does from people especially considering that LB seems to get none despite his vastly superior track record.

I tell you why ANY GM would have given slack for this NY organization. Given the timeframe when Zeke took over, how many years would any reasonable GM say it would take to turn this franchise around to 50 wins. 2? 3? 5? Also, take into account that Houston is gone.

If you went with the wait, dump salary, draft heigh routine, I would say about 4-6 years. Isiah took another route, could we give him the same opporutnity? Or at least 3-4 years.

Also, what benchmarks do you think Dolan has set? That's the real marker of what he has been doing as a GM.

At least when you dump salary and draft high you're getting cap room and solid picks to build a solid foundation. Where is our solid foundation? Where are our options to build around that foundation? If Isiah is going to take this route, by capping us out even further and trading away most of our high picks over the next few years, then he has to produce a lot faster. With this season being a waste Isiah has had 3 years. Do you see year 4 or even year 5 to be that much brighter? Especially with no lottery pick this year or next?

I do see a fairly decent foundation of Larry, Frye, and Curry. Pull out Curry and plug in this years' pick and it's the same to me. Butler, Crawford, Ariza, Lee are young pieces and we may see more pieces added via AD/Penny/MoT over the next 2 years. Now, do we have Franchise young talent (LeBron, Carmello, Wade)? No. Can Curry get to that level? Questionable, and a resounding no for this season.

This season is not a waste. Also, I think of Curry versus our #1 pick as getting the player A YEAR early to get acclimated to Brown's system, something that I think has not been brought up in the past. We pay $$$ for that, but it is still a HUGE difference maker.

Larry has a very good track record from January on in his first year, and from the second to third year. It is somewhat about coninuity towards progression. Injuries have hurt this team.
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Nalod
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12/29/2005  12:40 PM
Posted by islesfan:

That some of you are so willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and seemingly your undying loyalty and unending patience?

I don't quite remember as many people saying "Oh well, whats done is done", "Just give him a few years to see how things turn out" or "It's only his 3rd year, he needs at least 2-3 more to see how his moves turn out" when it came to Layden or any other GM that the Knicks have had. Why is Isiah different? Why does he get such a long leash?

Brown at the very least has a track record that is filled with successes and some of you are more than willing to blame/fire him after 20+ games but Isiah, with his track record of never having built a playoff team, gets years before we can judge him??? That doesn't make any sense.

I'm being very serious and I'd really like for someone to explain it to me. Thanks.

YOur like 2 years too late for this arguement. There were some of us that saw "Messiah" as a GM Starphuching surpreme and did not buy into the hype surrounding it.

I wanted a rebuild even when layden was here. I hated the whole Don Chaney firing and the only thing I liked about last year was Reezy. The team last year with a complete waste! The Shandon exile was sophmoric too. I thought "messiah" was really out of his league.

I like Plan b, its got teeth. Curry is a heart risk, but the young man can play and I think he is better than anyone in this draft.

The rest of it will play itself out. Larry has real substance to him and he is playing with Herbs team. We have a core of Curry/Frye and I hope Reezy.

Im really not sure what the Marb-larry thing really is about. While we blast Marbs for not making his team mates better, might his teammates not making him look good? StumpBury was a mistake to build around, very stupid idea. IT was a starphuch trade and most bought it hook line and sinker! Larry would never have agreed to that trade, but we can't just dump him without trying. I remember reading an article that Isiah and Marbs really needed this gig to get their reps right and it was very important to both to make it work. I really believe Marbs has some issues, but will own up to do whats right. His talent can overcome his frustration!

I'd like to see 5 straight games with Curry/James playing. I have said this like 4 times today, I saw ball movement to curry last nite that was very encouraging. I am excited over that.

Thats my sliver of hope!

islesfan
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12/29/2005  12:40 PM
This is who we're building around???

CALL HIM UNSTEADY EDDY

By MARC BERMAN

December 29, 2005 -- KNICK NOTES

ORLANDO — It was sadly ironic. Before last night's tipoff, Larry Brown was bemoaning Eddy Curry's conditioning because of all the games he had missed due to two injuries — a calf strain and a more recent ankle sprain.

Sure enough, Curry went down again last night, re-straining a left calf muscle that cost him five games last month. Curry was having a glorious 29-point, nine-rebound night when he injured himself late in the third quarter an alley-oop dunk.

He came out immediately, tried to return early in the fourth before sitting out the final 6:03 of last night's 105-95 loss in Orlando. Curry said he thinks he'll be ready tomorrow in Milwaukee, but it would seem unlikely, as he was limping in the locker room after getting taped.

Curry, who has missed nine games, was playing his second game back from an ankle sprain that cost him four contests.

"We were treating the ankle so much we lost sight of the calf," Curry said.

Before the game, Brown admitted, "He's just out of shape. I think we're all well aware. You just hope he gets better and hope he stays healthy."

Curry, meanwhile, has a new, live-in chef to try to spur weight loss and get him on an eating schedule that prohibits him from eating late at night.

Curry won't reveal his actual weight, but Brown indicated it is significantly above the 285 pounds he played at during his breakout season last year in Chicago. Asked if he was under 300 pounds, Curry nodded yes, unconvincingly.

Brown blames it on him missing action, but most players remain in shape during an absence. One reason the Bulls eventually gave up on him was they feared he didn't have the work ethic to get in tip-top condition.

If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Swishfm3
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12/29/2005  12:41 PM
I think I.Thomas has done a good job with this team with the EXCEPTION of signing L.Brown.

Thomas brought in a coach that was the complete opposite of the direction he was trying to make this team. Which is why this team is going down.
The Knicks would have been better off signing Flip Saunders
islesfan
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12/29/2005  12:42 PM
Posted by Nalod:


YOur like 2 years too late for this arguement. There were some of us that saw "Messiah" as a GM Starphuching surpreme and did not buy into the hype surrounding it.

I'm 2 years late?!? You're being sarcastic, right?

[Edited by - islesfan on 12-29-2005 12:43 PM]
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
misterearl
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12/29/2005  1:19 PM
Islesfan - who would you have named General Manager after Layden?

And how long should it take to dispose of Scott Layden's mess?

once a knick always a knick
islesfan
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12/29/2005  1:33 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Islesfan - who would you have named General Manager after Layden?

And how long should it take to dispose of Scott Layden's mess?

I could name 100 people but the point is that after 2 years and after making so many deals Isiah has to be held accountable for the situation that this team is currently in. This isn't Layden's mess anymore, it's his.

2 years is plenty of time to start disposing of Layden's mess and start laying a solid foundation of lottery picks and clearing cap room. Isiah has just compounded the mess by trading away lottery picks and adding tens of millions of dollars to our albatross of a cap.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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What exactly has Isiah done as an executive anywhere
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