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Mta strike begins
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earthmansurfer
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12/16/2005  3:03 PM
I remember reading a quote from a philosopher of sorts. He mentioned how people on some of these sports sites really have these deep intellectual talks, a great deal of smarts. I always wondered what if we took some of the energy going into sports and applied it to life, to things like this? We can still enjoy our sports, but just think if we did apply some of this "wasted energy" to real causes where people benefit, not just where "our" team wins. Governments just love us wasting our energy on things that don't matter and don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking sports, but there is some truth to that.
Regarding the strike, I think it's great to stand up to "the man". These corporations are making money hand over fist and don't care about people, just profits. I find this an inherent flaw with capitalism, but we have to play from the hand we are dealt, to a point anyway. If there profits look too big they will funnel money to subsidiarys or partner companies to make it seem reasonable. Hell, they will buy back the stock to "benefit" shareholders some more. So many loopholes, and hell the banks and insurance companies still make BILLIONS without really doing anything, other than taking more than thier share it seems by really managing distribution of something (money) with no real backing (eg. gold) to it. Instead of bitching, what can we do? We can't exactly stop technology from going forward and removing people where they are not needed (define needed though). Not to sound socialistic, but instead of a few shareholders making billions by removing people, wouldn't it make sense to sort of limit this and share it, the profits I mean? Put some of these profits into education, housing, something to help the majority who are suffering and I do mean suffering. And don't let these companies decide where the money goes, they already do and that's a part of the problem. I mean if the money is just hoarded and if money is limited (even with inflation) we need to share it and not kill eachother fighting over it. I don't like to see that. It is sad to see us at eachothers throats fighting for leftovers. Sorry to rant, it just seemed like a good opportunity to express this. Oh, and we shouldn't move this to a separate board. That's just what the man wants! eheheh Hide it from the eyes of a dangerous resource... us.
Comments? I could go on, too many points not yet mentioned.
Earthman
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TemujinKnick
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12/16/2005  3:08 PM
Paying 1% of healthcare costs and retiring at 62 instead of 55 is not suffering. The surplus is temporary, due entirely to one-off real estate transactions. Almost half of that surplus is going into the pension fund as is. Even with this surplus, AND the already planned fare hikes in 2007 and 2009, the MTA is facing HUGE deficits in the coming years. The union is demanding big gains when there is a temporary surplus... will they offer big cutbacks when there is a massive deficit? Will they offer to cut their own pay and benefits before fares are raised on all of us again?

Yes, the MTA is horribly mismanaged, but the TWU is contributing to the problems here.

The biggest problem is miseducation on economics. What matters isn't what transit workers make elsewhere or what transit workers think they "deserve". What matters is whether the money exists to improve the system in the first place. If Albany wasn't so horribly run the state budget wouldn't be such a huge mess and maybe more funding for the MTA could come from there -- for better service AND better pay/benefits for the transit workers.

I'm sorry that transit workers don't have everything they want. But think for a second about all the rest of us who have to struggle just as much and who will be harmed the most by a strike. This MTA proposal is surprisingly reasonable. If it isn't accepted by the union and there is a strike I can no longer have any sympathy for the TWU and will blame only the workers. It would be totally irresponsible and greedy to strike in this situation.
earthmansurfer
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12/16/2005  3:36 PM
Good post Temu, I heard about the writeoff and that explains alot. These company books should be transparant though. In fairness to the companies I'm sure they are fighting to stay alive as well. (But not the Banks and most insurance companies!) My rant was not really directed at the MTA, so the "suffering" I said does not have to do with the Healthcare package you mention. I meant it more in a general way, you know, unpaid overtime (eg. salaried people), no healthcare for people, etc. I think you brought up a great point though. The mismanagement and inneficient management of business is just hurting us all. Moreso now I'll say we need to put money into education and not war like Bush is doing. He is cutting our education money and that is plain wrong. Borrow billions for education if you are going to borrow at all. I guess with technology always improving, Rulers need stupid people to make sure we keep these separations of class going... If we are educated well we can manage, or rather change, the current inneficient systems we have inherited. I guess to really talk about this MTA issue we need to see the books. Even then, company "deals" (eg. inflated prices to partner companies and the like) can distort the real profits. Regarding miseducation on economics, well, any economical system based on capitalism will be flawed regardless, as it's based on infinite resources and growth, not very realistic when we are sitting on a planet. People in America may benefit since we are a world power, but there's alot of other people on this here earth. But your point is taken. I can see both sides, we are fighting to keep what we have and in changing times that is just not possible. Revolution of the mind... then there is a chance. I just hope money isn't being diverted... I mean is it true there books were actually secret until recently? That makes no sense... or is it, that makes too much sense.
Earthman
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
NumberTwoPencil
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12/16/2005  3:49 PM
Thanks, Enyspree.

As a daily transit rider, you have my support and sympathy. If it comes down to a strike, well, I'll walk with pride. Workers and riders of the MTA unite!

My only complaint about the union right now is that it has done a piss-poor job of educating the riders about the issues involved. Right now, I think most of the city supports the union but Bloomberg and the MTA have been working overtime trashtalking the union and misleading the public. Perhaps every transit worker should make sure they talk to everyone they know about the issues and, hey, why doesn't the union encourage workers to spend a few minutes of strike time, I dunno, handing out leaflets or something? It's too bad the union isn't as proactive about MTA issues as, say, the Strap Hangers Campaign is for riders.

There's lots of lively discussion of the strike on the Strap Hangers Campaign site:

http://www.straphangers.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi
EnySpree
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12/16/2005  8:36 PM
Lots of great opinions on the subject. Everyone is entitled to believe or understand things the way they want to.

I just know that the workers make the Mta run and we need to stand up to the monster that is trying to take away jobs and cheat workers out of their well being.

Someone said will the workers give back their pay when transit has their projected deficit. Well do you really believe a company that lied about them being in debt to raise the fair and then once they do that they release the books and we all find out that they have a billion dollars in the stash. Why do they expect to go through hard times? They are trying to automate the whole system and plan to build a new control center in the 59th street area that is going to run the system like a video game. That is already in the budget that the billion dollars is going to. You don't have to believe me all you have to do is wait cuz its coming sooner that you think.
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EnySpree
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12/16/2005  9:49 PM
Also about the idea of cutting back service. I worked every number train out there so I can answer a lot of questions about each number line. Things happenon trains that people do not take into consideration. There could be a police investigation that could cause major delays. People get robbed, stabbed, fights break out, suspicious packedges, you name it. There could be over crowding. There could be a train malfunction. There are so many things that could disrupt service. Trains run on tracks so if one train has a problem the whole system can be screwed for a stint. If more than one thing is going on, well you get what I mean. Before I got to work today they had the train crews working 20 minutes behind schedule cuz of multiple disruptions in service. Even holding a train for your sweet old grandma that is still buying a metro card can cause a domino effect.

If everything is running relatively smooth trains come less than two minutes during rush hour. after the rush the time between trains gradually deceases to about 5 to 8 minutes. Mid night you are looking at 20 minutes between trains on all lines and this is the time they usually have major service changes due to construction.
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nykshaknbake
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12/17/2005  2:20 PM
I beleive your sincerity and have my own gripes about the MTA...a billion in surplus and I hear there's supposed to be a 2.50 fare in the works(maybe you can confirm this?)? But a strike will cost the city billions especially during the holiday season. I think it would be more fair to do it afterward. If a strike occurs before, I think much of the public sympathy you have will be forever lost. On a personal note I really hoope this gets resolved. I have residency interviews in Brooklyn in late Dec, early Jan...
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by nykshaknbake:

We good luck to you as an individual. I hope the union can suppor its memebers somewhat if this becomes protracted. However, I think it's distasteful that the union would strike in the holiday season. It's leverage but the people who lose are the commuters.

Yeah the commuters lose but like I said the workers lose double regardless. Nobody wants to strike but what can you do? You must fight for what's right.

Once all this stuff is over I hope some city leaders and civil rights leaders spark discussion of a Boycott of the MTA. In the event of a Boycott the MTA would have to promise to stop the fair increase for a few more years and stop wasting money on computer trains. There is meaningless constuction going on and service changes. The stations need elevators and they need to be modernized and cleaned for Christ sakes.

The MTA don't care about the people who pay their fares everyday and it's now clear to everyone that they don't care about the workers either.

The people are the most important thing.

edit: I can tell you that they are not ready for a terrorist attack. They have rules that protect themselves from blame. The workers are stuck out there with unexceptable training in case of an emergancy and a radio........and they want to actually put people on a train with only a train operator. it's a death trap now.....imagine if you had one guy on the train that can call for help?

[Edited by - enyspree on 12-16-2005 09:55 AM]
nykshaknbake
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12/17/2005  2:23 PM
nice post. Didn't know before that the surplus stems from real estate.
Posted by TemujinKnick:

Paying 1% of healthcare costs and retiring at 62 instead of 55 is not suffering. The surplus is temporary, due entirely to one-off real estate transactions. Almost half of that surplus is going into the pension fund as is. Even with this surplus, AND the already planned fare hikes in 2007 and 2009, the MTA is facing HUGE deficits in the coming years. The union is demanding big gains when there is a temporary surplus... will they offer big cutbacks when there is a massive deficit? Will they offer to cut their own pay and benefits before fares are raised on all of us again?

Yes, the MTA is horribly mismanaged, but the TWU is contributing to the problems here.

The biggest problem is miseducation on economics. What matters isn't what transit workers make elsewhere or what transit workers think they "deserve". What matters is whether the money exists to improve the system in the first place. If Albany wasn't so horribly run the state budget wouldn't be such a huge mess and maybe more funding for the MTA could come from there -- for better service AND better pay/benefits for the transit workers.

I'm sorry that transit workers don't have everything they want. But think for a second about all the rest of us who have to struggle just as much and who will be harmed the most by a strike. This MTA proposal is surprisingly reasonable. If it isn't accepted by the union and there is a strike I can no longer have any sympathy for the TWU and will blame only the workers. It would be totally irresponsible and greedy to strike in this situation.
nykshaknbake
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12/17/2005  2:26 PM
The thing is you can't have essential services striking...it's a disaster. What if all the doctors from a hospital decided they were going on strike? Or all the nurses? Would that be ok?
Posted by Killa4luv:

Having said all of what I said in my previous post, is it better for all workers if the bosses keep wages low, or if workers fight for better wages/benefits, etc.?

If a group of workers in a huge union likt the MTA cannot fight and win better wages/conditions who can?

The taylor laws are pure facism.

I will now step down from the soap box.

[Edited by - killa4luv on 12-16-2005 10:45 AM]
oohah
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12/17/2005  6:26 PM
The taylor laws are pure facism.

I agree. If the TWU cannot strike, then the MTA can just say "Screw you, what can you do? You have to take what we offer." Which they basically have done. I can't believe a law like the Taylor Law is constitutional. The only people who should not be allowed to strike are workers who are directly involved with the public safety. (Because this is akin to joining the Military.)

If I were Roger Toussaint, I would say, "We are not striking, we don't have a contract. How can we be striking when we don't have a contract to work?"

Enyspree: I wish you guys would just go ahead and strike. (And believe me folks, it affects me profoundly becuase I have to go to Physical Therapy. The other day, I was in a station that only had the down escalators working and I had to climb 6 flights of stairs on crutches.)

The MTA is playing chicken with the TWU, messing with the lives of people who depend on the transit system and the TWU keeps blinking, pushing back the strike deadlines. The TWU would be striking for all of us, show the MTA what's what! Enough with this 1/10th of a strike, 1/4 strike BS. The TWU should strike and go full force with a media blast showing the corruption, scandals, and general foul play of the MTA: The executives who have ransacked the till, spending money on BS instead of upkeep and safety measures.

Another thing, don't they realize that transit worker are at the forefront of people who can be affected by terrorism? The bus drivers included!

oohah


[Edited by - oohah on 12-17-2005 6:27 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
rich1223
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12/17/2005  7:09 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

I don't know if you guys know but I work for Mta nyct.

I just want to say a strike at this time would be terrible for me and my family. Christmas is here and though I have a little money saved a strike would cripple my family.

No one seems to know or care to understand that we will not be getting paid. Actually according to state law, if we go on strike we will be docked 2 days pay for everyday we strike.

What do the workers want? Everyone thinks the workers are greedy. The nyct transit workers are the lowest paid transit workers in the country. They have a billion dollar surplus. They want to take conductors off the train which is a security risk waiting to happen in this time of terror. They want to cut all visible jobs and make everyone the same. They want to cripple workers pay sendind is from middle class to appoaching poverty levels into the commung years.

They want to cut benifits and raise the retirement age to 62. They ignore the health risks associated with the job as it is. Even though we have them, we can't take personal days and we are not allowed sick leave unless we have a doctors note. Personal days are always rejected no matter what it is. For example when my son was born they were going to debt me time off. I was lucky that he was born on my day off or they would have denied me the day off. They told me that I will are him when I get off. This is just the mentality of what we are dealing with.

They have a billion dollar surplus and say they already have budgeted that money with the workers not tied into their plans.

Check this. They will be raising the fare. Its already signed off on in their budget. It has nothing to do with the union contract. Passengers will be looking at $2.50 a ride.

As far as right now the strike has begun. They authorized the private lines to strike. By sometime this week the whole system could be shut down.

Like I said, this will cripple my family. I don't know how rent will be paid, etc. Not to mention Christmas is here.

At the same time I know in my heart that we need to fight the Mta. They are a monopoly. They want to cut service, comprimise safety, and raise the fair yet again. They are crazy. The people in the city need to boycott the Mta after all this is played out.

This is my two cents on the subject. I decided to do this because people have been knocking on my door and calling me wanting to know what's going on with the strike. Its not Like the workers have a cable modem up our ass and know more than the people. I know what's going on when i turn the TV on like eveyone else. What hurts is that there are people that I haven't spoken to in years calling me about the strike. No one asks me how am I going to manage or if I'll need help especially during the holidays. That's ****ed up.

Good luck from a Union Brother of TWU local 501! I feel your pain!As we at American Airlines were giving cack 16% of our pay plus Vacation,holiday pay,and benefit cuts our great management team was handing out milllion dollar bonuses to our executives!All the time crying they were going broke!
EnySpree
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12/19/2005  10:36 AM
I'm sure all you guys know by now that there is a mid-night deadline for a citywide strike of all MTA trains and buses. I just want anyone that rely on the train to get around not to get caught out too far away from home......which means after about 10pm you all should at the very least stay in your neighborhoods.

I also want to explain that people who will still be out there around mid-night will still have a limited opportunity to get home because all crews will be exausted and trains will be pushed out up to 12am. I can only speak for the number trains. Most number trains make a full round trip in about 2hrs....the 7 train on the other hand takes a little over and hour.....the 2 train takes about 4 hours to make a round trip.

I'm trying to make it easy for guys that use this site. You can pass the info on to your friends and family. I'm definately not acting on behalf of anyone other than just having compassion for my fellow NY'ers.
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martin
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12/19/2005  10:54 AM
thanks Eny
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EnySpree
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12/19/2005  11:00 AM
I also want to say that all working people have to realize than this is not just about the MTA and their workers. We must fight for a fair living. If the TWU which is one of the biggest if not the biggest union in the country do not fight any one with common sense knows that there will be a domino effect for all people who work for a check....union and non-union alike.

Also I want all people that think the workers are greedy to find out about the Taylor Laws and how they punish city workers for walking off the job. Basically they fine all workers 2 days pay for everyday we strike.

The Metro North have been working without a contract for almost 4 years and the MTA have been taking advantage of their soft union leadership by cutting corners and laterally changing alot of things that go on at the workplace...illegally. The Metro North have made a statement that basically said they will be watching what the Transit workers situation and a challenging the MTA to finally come to the table with them or they may possibly strike in the future.

We must fight this monster. The People of the city need to Boycott after the strike ends. People have to realize what is actually going on here. Future transit workers will thank us for doing what we are doing. Who knows.....your kids could decide they want to work for the MTA one day. We want them to be able to take care of their families and not get screwed. Like I said it's not just about us. It's about every other working class person whether you are blue collar or in the suit at a desk. People are too comfortable and are letting big corperations and the goverment do what they want. Wake up.

I pray that things get resolved. I pray for the future too. I pray that more people become aware of what's going on around them and fight for the rights of the people.
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HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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12/19/2005  12:00 PM
Good post, ENY. I feel the same way. It's like the MTA iss really blowing off the union. The only way to really get the point across is to go on strike. I have a few cousins who work for Transit (as Train Operators) and they feel the same as well.

If Toussaint doesn't own up to the strike threat, then he'll look like a spineless coward to the MTA, the TWU and the public.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
MattSuspect
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12/19/2005  1:33 PM
Best of luck to you. You guys deserve it.

Oh, and FWIW, Toissant is easily the coolest union leader in recent memory.
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12/19/2005  2:27 PM
Best of luck, Eny. I respect what you guys are doing.
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tkf
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12/19/2005  4:58 PM
enyspree, I no longer live in NY but I wish the best for you and your co-workers, I used to take the train to HS and college for many years I used the MTA, and I appreciate what you guys do, I pray for the best for you guys..
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LBeast
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12/20/2005  1:46 AM
STRIKE IS ON!!!!
TemujinKnick
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12/20/2005  2:37 AM
Very sad day for NYC and a terrible move by the TWU.
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