Posted by crzymdups:

As for Isiah, if things aren't turned around by March, I think he will be on the hot seat. I'll give him until the trade deadline to make a move. Layden got to screw up the franchise from the Ewing trade in 2000 until December 03. Surely Isiah deserves the same ammount of time - at least Isiah has made three solid draft picks in his tenure (Frye, Ariza, Nate). How many draft picks did Layden come up with? Sweetney.

Nate is too early to tell as being a good pick. He annoys me every time he is on the court. He doesnt keep his mouth shut and he plays like he is in a street game.

Posted by Rich:

I still think the biggest problem on this team, which would obviate the "FIRE" threads, is the lack of a PG who is a floor general.

Obviously Marbury has not played well this year, but it is the point guards job to have his teammates help on defense and cover the perimeter. that's a team wide thing and it has to come from the coach.

Posted by Rich:

I love Nate for his heart and toughness.

I agree. Same goes for Lee, and possibly Ariza. I'm looking forward to seeing what used to be referred to as the 'second unit' again. combinations of: JC, Nate, Ariza, Lee, Frye. Can even toss in a pinch of Curry.

Those boys, when allowed to play as a unit, don't give up.

Those are all good characterizations, but their overall body language when they play together as a unit is more upbeat than when they are trying to grind it out with the vets.

Posted by McK1:


4 draft picks and a gazzillion trades and none amongst them can step up and lead...

See Frye, Channing.

Posted by McK1:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Those are all good characterizations, but their overall body language when they play together as a unit is more upbeat than when they are trying to grind it out with the vets.

our youth can't have the same effect on guys like AD and Rose that Gordon and Deng, Parker and Ginobli did?

PJ Brown has found the fountain of youth playing with CP3.

4 draft picks and a gazzillion trades and none amongst them can step up and lead...

Not sure I get all your points, but...

A lot of people think it was more likely that AD had an effect on the youth, not the other way around. But he's 37 now, and this is a different locker room and energy.

And Rose was moved because he was becoming a nuisance in San Antonio. He was like their third string PF and chirping to Pop about playing time. He was becoming more of a malcontent than a locker room asset.

And we do have a leader. It's Steph, and it shows.

I suppose you are saying all our youth blows? Maybe, but I'm willing to give them more time before I'm convinced of that.



[Edited by - BlueSeats on 12-15-2005 01:01 AM]

Posted by BlueSeats:


I suppose you are saying all our youth blows? Maybe, but I'm willing to give them more time before I'm convinced of that.

[Edited by - BlueSeats on 12-15-2005 01:01 AM]

I don't think they blow. Its just frustrating that as intense a competitor as Isiah was as a player, he has yet to provide this team with anyone remotely close to resembling a leader.


Frye is realgood but he seems sidekick-ish even with the knowledge he is Isiah's saving grace out there. He has the level-headedness to not go on an ego trip and be abusive of power like Marbury. Make yourself the center.

I remember when Grant Hill came out of college, he immediately took over and exploded after 4 years of being the guy mentioned after Laettner and Hurley and that team had Dumars and a rising Hunter and Houston. AZ's guards similarly overshadowd Frye. Here now in NY he is in position to write his own story. Marbury's early season attempt to discredit him was seen through by everyone. wtf is he waiting on? Vince tried to smother Bosh's star but Bosh showed backbone. Vince is gone and now that is Bosh's team. Vince's reign was short-lived and he probably will never have another team. Whether he stays in Tor or jumps, bosh will be the face of the franchise. My hope and wish is that Channing has and shows the drive to be the face of NY.

Posted by McK1:

Marbury's early season attempt to discredit him was seen through by everyone.

Can you give me some details? I haven't heard this one...

Posted by EwingsGlass:

Posted by islesfan:

When exactly does Isiah start taking some of the blame for putting together this mismatched team? And why would anybody trust this guy to get us out of this? Even his most ardent supporters claim that he's a good drafter but mediocre to poor at acquiring players through trades. Well those potential lottery picks are going to be used by other GM's and not Isiah. All first round picks are not equal. You notice the difference between Frye vs Nate and Lee? That's the difference between a safe lottery pick and picking much later in the draft. That's why it's crippling to trade away this many possible lottery picks. Especially for such questionable players.

It is absolutely ridiculous to challenge IT's draft performance or even call a pick like Channing a safe pick. Look at all the deriding posts when IT announced Frye was his guy. Safe? I doubt it. Fact of the matter is that he hits homeruns in the draft. AND he has transformed the roster from very little tradeable assets to quite a few. We actually have players who are "untradeable" by our own devise. It used to be the lack of talent and overpriced contracts made players untradeable. For that alone, he deserves an opportunity to see this project through.

Especially when the guy who created this thread killed the pick. Pretty dumb. It looks like it is time to start bookmarking some of these post.

YOu used the words marginal. You weren't alone in killing Isiah on the pick though. But I remember you and McK1 did kill that pick on draft nite. Criticism was across the board in this forum and over different sites. It was debated so bad in here that doesn't even need repeating.
This why you can't call Frye a safe pick because the guy was slotted to go late first round until it was rumored that Isiah worked him out right after the end of the NCAA tourney. Made a promise, see Briggs' post about the promise. Frye didn't even bother to work out for other teams. There is no way you can call the guy a safe pick.

Late first round?!? You're out of your mind. Coming out of college he was projected as a mid to late lottery pick by EVERYBODY. Sorry but that's the most ridiculous thing that I've heard in awhile. He jumped 15-20 spots because of a promise from Isiah?