Posted by Killa4luv:

I'm done with all of you. There is not even a sembelance of fairness here. I'm finished. I can't take this. After EVERY loss, there is this an emotional argument for why it was stephs fault no matter who did what. I can't deal with this, it is making my time here less enjoyable. There is a contingent here who ignore facts, spew platitudes, and generally root against their teams favorite player, because he writes things on his sneakers. It is draining me to read this nonsense everyday, or every other day. I am gone. Good bye.

killa man...it's all good.

i felt the same way towards the end of patrick's tenure here with people saying similar things. i know he's your favorite player and he does get blamed alot and it's gotta be tough for you to hear all these things every single day. i feel your pain bro.

it's pretty obvious to me tho. marbury, to be successful, needs to have the ball in his hands. he's been in the league for 10 years. that's who he is. this team is not being built around him now. the first clue was crawford. why bring in another guy that can handle the rock like a point unless you plan to take the ball out of steph's hands for a bit? steph was brought in to play with h20. that never materialized. steph didn't buy into dantoni's system where he was asked to give up the ball. (penny said this). he's not that point guard, the one that's going to go out of his way and just give up the rock...and that's the type of point guard we need...one that's going to give up the ball almost to a fault.

i see steph really trying hard on the defensive end and he's made quantum leaps there but you can't change your spots. and steph is a 1/2 court pg that needs to control the ball. he needs guys on the wings waiting for him to kick it out and that can hit jumpshots. we don't have that. we have some athletes that can run. we have a big man that we need to get the ball too. we don't need steph shooting 15+ times a night anymore. and you can see he's having a tough time adjusting to it b/c now he's relied upon to be a creator on the offensive end instead of passing off double teams. and that's not his strength.

so we're trying to make steph a different type of pg. can he become that pg? i don't know but how much time do we invest in him to see if he can? that's the biggest question we have to ask. and some of us would rather invest that time in someone else...someone younger.

EDIT: with that said, lb has not helped steph by not giving him the best possible starting lineup. so it's not all on steph here. my whole gripe is not with steph specifically but with not having a pure pass first pg.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 12-08-2005 7:10 PM]

Posted by PhilinLA:

Steph's had his thought processes changed. And no matter how physically gifted you are, it takes a little time to get new thoughts integrated into your game. Guys always take a step back before taking two forward.

it really is a fascinating study on human psyche. steph is like this tragic hero in a story and we're seeing him make his journey like odysseus. the question is will he be able to complete that journey or will he fall short? it's pretty good drama watching it unfold. it sounds like i'm making this out to be some elaborate soap opera but it so far, that's the storyline with this team...lb and marbury and what will isiah do about it.

I certainly think Steph is capable of being "Billipsed", but Larry, Isiah and Steph need to agree that's in everyone's best interests. Chauncey is solid but unspectacular, sorta like the way Ron Harper played with Chicago, and Snow played with Philly.

But as those guys show, it doesn't take a star to do that, any number of players can be taught to play like that, so for Isiah, is it a worthwhile use of a ~$19M/yr investment? And for Brown, is Steph the quickest route to get there?

OTOH, can Steph be even better than Billips? What would that look like? Does Steph want to be Billipsed, to be a crucial but faceless cog in a highly structured system? We know he'd do anything to win a ring, but what if we don't get that far - if we don't become elite, say we top out at 50ish wins - would he rather be on a good but not great team while playing like Billips? Or would he prefer doing his thing somewhere else, calling the shots and getting his 20/8?

And I don't mean that in the selfish sense, I just wonder if Steph would have fun playing Brown's way. I think it's pretty clear he's not having fun yet.