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Cap room?
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Bonn1997
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12/2/2005  8:05 AM
Anyone know the availabe free agents the summer after Isiah was hired, and the summer after??
Larry Hughes and Joe Johnson were probably the top ones available. Other stars predictably re-signed with their current teams for more money (or signed extensions with their current teams before they even became FAs).
AUTOADVERT
franco12
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12/2/2005  10:11 AM
Fish has said this in other threads- its not about the cap, its about talent to contract ratio-

Namely, if we had 12 kevin garnetts on our team, we'd be what, about $200 million over the cap. But, if we wanted to trade one of those 12 kgs, we'd not have any problem getting picks or whatever we wanted.

To Indiana & Detroit's credit, they've made smart moves and if no one on their roster is someone they drafted and held onto, the people they did draft probably were attractive enough to other teams to take back in trades.

We're lucky this year to have 3 really excellent players that we were able to draft. When was the last time we were able to land in a draft someone of Frye's ability/skill/talent? Probably Ewing or Mark Jackson.

We passed on Artest, we traded Nene- the draft is absolutely critical- and its bad to trade picks away but worse to draft bad players.
BlueSeats
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12/2/2005  11:12 AM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Is it safe to say that if Houston was healthy we would be over 402. And if Houston was healthy our team would be completely different right now.

Yes, lets remember how in Isiah's first off-season 'rebuilding' was a dirty word while he was pursuing any and every name player imaginable: dampier, Walker, Francis, SAR, Sheed, Webber, Carter, Rose, Crawford, Jamison, Kobe, Finley, Wally, Big Z... it was an endless parade of interest in anything with two legs and a massive contract.

I'm of the mind that the failure of most of those deals to materialize and Allan's premature demise were a huge blessing in disguise, which compelled isiah to change directions toward youth and the draft. Who knows with a healthy Houston we might have done another Layden and traded the pick that became Frye for Webber.

And that probably would have pleased some, as short term gain and a push for a playoff spot is so often placed in higher regard than a long term strategy to compete at the highest level.
rvhoss
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12/2/2005  1:00 PM
we can gradually get there by acquiring not as shtty "talent to salary ratios" along the way and converting them to the "talent to salary" ratios you speak of.

this can only be done with patience.

Not by trading marbury for a bag of beans.

Patience.

We are doing exactly what needs to be done IMHO

Cap room doesn't matter if you can afford it.

Marbury stays.


[Edited by - rvhoss on 12-02-2005 1:02 PM]
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rvhoss
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12/2/2005  1:04 PM
how long has zeke been here? Is it coming up on 2 full years? Man, what a job he's done in such a short time from a crappy roster.

Go Zeke, Go Knicks.
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McK1
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12/2/2005  1:04 PM
Cap room doesn't matter if you can afford it.

is that what you got out of all this?

the 07 and 08 free agent classes will determine if your conclusion is correct.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
rvhoss
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12/2/2005  1:05 PM
you mean the class that stays with their teams?

Give me a break.

What awesome free agent switched teams this first year of the new CBA?

Oh, I forgot, Joe Johnson.

You think Lebron is going to leave his home town?

You think the Melo is going anywhere?

[Edited by - rvhoss on 12-02-2005 1:12 PM]
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rvhoss
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12/2/2005  1:10 PM
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=12918


[Edited by - rvhoss on 12-02-2005 1:11 PM]
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McK1
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12/2/2005  1:14 PM
for 07:

Lewis has an opt-out. Carter has an opt-out. NJ has yet to extend him; who knows if he wants to stay. Dirk has an opt-out. Pierce has an opt-out. Bosh may want to leave Toronto. Some other rookies out of that class may start to emerge.



[Edited by - McK1 on 12-02-2005 1:15 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
rvhoss
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12/2/2005  1:16 PM
I just don't see these guys going to a lottery team...do you?
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fishmike
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12/2/2005  1:19 PM
Posted by rvhoss:
You think the Melo is going anywhere?
Melo said on SAS about 3 weeks ago he would love to play for NY and Larry Brown

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
rvhoss
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12/2/2005  1:19 PM
because you know that's the only way for us to be under the cap to afford these guys, a lottery team with 9 active players and a cavernous garden.

No LB, No Future, No Nothing. All of our promising kids traded.

There's a reason Kobe didn't go to the clippers, maybe loyalty, maybe not...there's a reason Yao signed an extension.

Pierce can come here if he wants, TMac got to Houston, Vince got to Jersey.

Getting rid of all our players for a mythical salary cap figure won't do it, contending and patiently shedding crappy contracts and players will.

Dumping your best player because mck1 and knight hate him won't.
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McK1
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12/2/2005  1:20 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

I just don't see these guys going to a lottery team...do you?

I see those guys going to a team with young competitive talent with the capspace to sign them if they choose to leave their current situations.

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
rvhoss
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12/2/2005  1:20 PM
what's your point, unless it's for the MLE, all the manipulation of the roster in the world isn't going to get him here, and he said that AFTER we got marbury and LB.

I brought that up a few weeks ago and you laughed it off, now suddenly you think it's possible?

Shut up fish.
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by rvhoss:
You think the Melo is going anywhere?
Melo said on SAS about 3 weeks ago he would love to play for NY and Larry Brown

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rvhoss
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12/2/2005  1:21 PM
You mean like Kobe did for atlanta?
Or was it the Clippers?

What's our roster when we are under the cap enough to afford 12 million a year?

OH, you haven't thought about that, just that marbs is gone.

Whatever the roster, it's not competitive.

shut up fish. I know you aren't fish, but wanted to say it anyway.
Posted by McK1:
Posted by rvhoss:

I just don't see these guys going to a lottery team...do you?

I see those guys going to a team with young competitive talent with the capspace to sign them if they choose to leave their current situations.


[Edited by - rvhoss on 12-02-2005 1:23 PM]
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McK1
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12/2/2005  1:22 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

because you know that's the only way for us to be under the cap to afford these guys, a lottery team with 9 active players and a cavernous garden.

No LB, No Future, No Nothing. All of our promising kids traded.

There's a reason Kobe didn't go to the clippers, maybe loyalty, maybe not...there's a reason Yao signed an extension.

Pierce can come here if he wants, TMac got to Houston, Vince got to Jersey.

Getting rid of all our players for a mythical salary cap figure won't do it, contending and patiently shedding crappy contracts and players will.

Dumping your best player because mck1 and knight hate him won't.

contending?
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
rvhoss
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12/2/2005  1:24 PM
Oh yeah, a non knick fan wouldn't see us heading in the right direction. Talk to me in 07/08.

Shut up FISH!
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McK1
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12/2/2005  1:29 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

You mean like Kobe did for atlanta?
Or was it the Clippers?

What's our roster when we are under the cap enough to afford 12 million a year?

OH, you haven't thought about that, just that marbs is gone.

Whatever the roster, it's not competitive.

shut up fish. I know you aren't fish, but wanted to say it anyway.
Posted by McK1:
Posted by rvhoss:

I just don't see these guys going to a lottery team...do you?

I see those guys going to a team with young competitive talent with the capspace to sign them if they choose to leave their current situations.




[Edited by - rvhoss on 12-02-2005 1:22 PM]

[Edited by - rvhoss on 12-02-2005 1:22 PM]


I did think about it. maybe Howard or Okafur in the 04 draft; Harris, Igoudala, Telfair...mabe coulda moved Kurt for an additional pick
05 Frye Lee at 30
06 maybe a shot at a Rudy Gay, Aldridge, or Adam Morrison plus the late pick from Spurs (Strickland 17 and 9 on 61% shooting)
07 cap space to sign whoever plus the draft pick


[Edited by - McK1 on 12-02-2005 1:29 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
fishmike
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12/2/2005  1:30 PM
RV reality have you down again? Why create a discussion if you cant handle more than one view point?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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12/2/2005  2:06 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by rvhoss:
You think the Melo is going anywhere?
Melo said on SAS about 3 weeks ago he would love to play for NY and Larry Brown
Melo's got the spin going to get the price up for Denver already. Smart man or smart agent.
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