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Quietly Steph played a good game last night.
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SlimPack
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12/1/2005  2:51 PM
I was very impressed with marbury last night, he played within the offense and it was clear it was trying his best to do what brown wanted him to do. of course I still think he should be traded becuase his contract is holding this organization back.

[Edited by - slimpack on 12-01-2005 2:53 PM]
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boomann
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12/1/2005  2:54 PM
I still think he should be traded becuase his contract is holding this organization back.

How exactly does his contract hold the orginization back? I must ponder this statement and I will respond accordingly after I get a snack.
"We need another shot blocker and we need more girth in the middle, once that happens we have a chance to be a pretty decent team" Isiah on draft night
gunsnewing
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12/1/2005  2:57 PM
Posted by boomann:
I still think he should be traded becuase his contract is holding this organization back.

How exactly does his contract hold the orginization back? I must ponder this statement and I will respond accordingly after I get a snack.


unable to trade him to get better. take the next step in building a legitimate contender
PhilinLA
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12/1/2005  2:59 PM
Steph was off, but he kept driving and making them foul him. He also had a nice # of assists (would have been more with Curry instead of Davis) and steals. He's drinking the Kool-aid and Larry should be very happy.
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boomann
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12/1/2005  3:01 PM
There have been so many bad contracts running around NY that trading him would just bring in more contracts. Contracts that might be even longer then Marbs contract and the players that we get in return probably still wouldn't push us over the top. Our players are good and getting better so my only suggestion to you guys is patience.
"We need another shot blocker and we need more girth in the middle, once that happens we have a chance to be a pretty decent team" Isiah on draft night
rvhoss
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12/1/2005  3:03 PM
guys, the "contract holding us back" line is played...it can only be applied to players that don't play.

This is New York...there is no such thing as a contract holding us back.

Look at Atlanta, what contract is holding them back?
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SlimPack
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12/1/2005  3:10 PM
Posted by boomann:
I still think he should be traded becuase his contract is holding this organization back.

How exactly does his contract hold the orginization back? I must ponder this statement and I will respond accordingly after I get a snack.

I sort of ment what guns said. marburys contract extends into the 07/08 season,(a season when the knicks are primed to get under the cap and actually be able to sign someone noteworthy, and also he makes more money than he is worth and his contract only gets bigger, thats why it will be impossible to trade him after this season. even after last night and knowing that marbury averages 17 ppg and 6 ast Im pretty sure the knicks can do just as well with someone else instead, and even if we can't it would still be better to have someone who gets paid what he is worth rather than marbury cuase then we'd have the ability to sign, and trade for important people and not be mediocre.
SlimPack
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12/1/2005  3:14 PM
Posted by boomann:

There have been so many bad contracts running around NY that trading him would just bring in more contracts. Contracts that might be even longer then Marbs contract and the players that we get in return probably still wouldn't push us over the top. Our players are good and getting better so my only suggestion to you guys is patience.

not if you trade him for expiring contracts or contracts that only have 1 season left.
SlimPack
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12/1/2005  3:15 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

guys, the "contract holding us back" line is played...it can only be applied to players that don't play.

This is New York...there is no such thing as a contract holding us back.

Look at Atlanta, what contract is holding them back?

no contract is really holding atlanta back, they have cap flexibilty, the reason they suck is becuase they dont have a pg. anyway I wish I knew exactly what the salary cap would be by next offseason(when alot of contracts come off our books) ill have to look it up, but if we have too much mony on our payroll we won't be able sign fa that we want

[Edited by - slimpack on 12-01-2005 3:17 PM]
rvhoss
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12/1/2005  3:40 PM
yeah, I think rose and MoT are monsters as well.

Unfortunately, I tried the salary cap investigation route and it looks like we will never be under the cap.
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SlimPack
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12/1/2005  3:56 PM
yeah just like I said, we could be under it at the end of next season, although I would like to know how much curry will make then.



[Edited by - slimpack on 12-01-2005 3:57 PM]
rvhoss
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12/1/2005  4:02 PM
here is what they have for us:
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

and even that is incomplete.

Believe it or not, we are headed in the right direction...look at the Nets, they have 3 highly paid stars (over $15 mill) and the rest are under $mill players.

That's basically us, our big three (assuming H20, etc. come off books eventually) marbs (just like kidd imho)...well, only marbs...I think curry is over $10 mill, jamal won't reach 10 mill until 2010.

I mean, we aren't in that bad of shape, we're just still picking up the pieces from mistakes of the spend easy period that all teams had (not just layden and the knicks)

There is nothing we can do with these salaries, there isn't any team out there that has a player in the last year of their contract that wants marbury.

so to say we should trade him for an expiring contract is really just wishful thinking.

we have two expiring this year and two expiring next year (if you count shandon) and so on.

I'm willing to wait that long for a title.

The quick fix hasn't and doesn't work IMHO.

Let's let Isiah stay the course, because if there is one thing we know he can't do, and that's evaluate trade talent

But if we practice patience, enjoy the growth of our team, we may get there sooner than you think.

I mean, LB is maximizing Rose's talent more than anybody could have imagined. He may actually be worth the $6 million he's being paid a year...well, maybe not, but that's what we had to take on to get Lee.

You trade marbs contract, you are going to get garbage in return unless the team really really really wants marbury, like the new york knicks did.

Nobody else on our team is really really wanted by another team...LB has the ability to improve trade value...so MoT and Rose may actually fetch us some quality role players or a Star.

To keep thinking that someone is going to hand the knicks over the star player, without including garbage that keeps us over the cap for another 5 years, is fools gold.

Let's just quietly get better over time and if we are contending when marbs is here, we are, if not, I'm pretty sure he'll pull a shaq and restructure his deal to allow additions.

i mean, honestly, is shaq worth $27 million this year?
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rvhoss
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12/1/2005  4:05 PM
No way we are under the cap next year, we'd have to magically get rid of shandon, h20 and JYD first (they can't be traded) and they account for 1/2 the cap on their own.

Then we'd have to move marbs and get nothing in return, which is impossible unless you trade him to a team that has cap room and picks to give up.

But, we know it's impossible to get rid of the $35 mill of the previous 3 I mentioned.

There will be no cap room for the knicks next year or the following year.

Unless we trade franchises with someone.
Posted by SlimPack:

yeah just like I said, we could be under it at the end of next season, although I would like to know how much curry will make then.



[Edited by - slimpack on 12-01-2005 3:57 PM]

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EnySpree
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12/1/2005  4:09 PM
The backcourt is being run beautifully. Nate, craw, and marbs all took turns rubing the show. Marbs had the reigns more but I like how the knicks are mixing it up back there. Its great cuz all three players are big time scorers and ball handlers. Awesome. I think the knicks are set in the backcourt. About time brown settled on the rotation. Its a truly beautiful thing.
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rvhoss
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12/1/2005  4:13 PM
I think a healthy q will be replacing nate sooner than you think. He can't post up. if his shots are falling...
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martin
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12/1/2005  4:18 PM
Is it just me or did we see Steph play off the ball against Chi, especially in the first quarter?
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rvhoss
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12/1/2005  4:20 PM
I think so...he seemed to be "ending up" with the ball more than "starting" with it.
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SlimPack
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12/1/2005  4:27 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

No way we are under the cap next year, we'd have to magically get rid of shandon, h20 and JYD first (they can't be traded) and they account for 1/2 the cap on their own.

Then we'd have to move marbs and get nothing in return, which is impossible unless you trade him to a team that has cap room and picks to give up.

But, we know it's impossible to get rid of the $35 mill of the previous 3 I mentioned.

There will be no cap room for the knicks next year or the following year.

Unless we trade franchises with someone.
Posted by SlimPack:

yeah just like I said, we could be under it at the end of next season, although I would like to know how much curry will make then.



[Edited by - slimpack on 12-01-2005 3:57 PM]

what are your talking about? hoopsyhype clearly states that in the 07/08 season with jerome williams' shandon andersons, mo taylors, and allan houstons contracts comming off of the books we are only due to pay about 49 mill. the only thing is this price dicludes eddy currys contract becuased appharently hoopshype doesnt know what it will be by then, even though i dont know exactly what the salary cap would be by then its 49.5 million now so it must be even higher by then, thats why im sure if marburys contract is not included then we would be under the cap.
SlimPack
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12/1/2005  4:29 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

here is what they have for us:
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

and even that is incomplete.

Believe it or not, we are headed in the right direction...look at the Nets, they have 3 highly paid stars (over $15 mill) and the rest are under $mill players.

That's basically us, our big three (assuming H20, etc. come off books eventually) marbs (just like kidd imho)...well, only marbs...I think curry is over $10 mill, jamal won't reach 10 mill until 2010.

I mean, we aren't in that bad of shape, we're just still picking up the pieces from mistakes of the spend easy period that all teams had (not just layden and the knicks)

There is nothing we can do with these salaries, there isn't any team out there that has a player in the last year of their contract that wants marbury.

so to say we should trade him for an expiring contract is really just wishful thinking.

we have two expiring this year and two expiring next year (if you count shandon) and so on.

I'm willing to wait that long for a title.

The quick fix hasn't and doesn't work IMHO.

Let's let Isiah stay the course, because if there is one thing we know he can't do, and that's evaluate trade talent

But if we practice patience, enjoy the growth of our team, we may get there sooner than you think.

I mean, LB is maximizing Rose's talent more than anybody could have imagined. He may actually be worth the $6 million he's being paid a year...well, maybe not, but that's what we had to take on to get Lee.

You trade marbs contract, you are going to get garbage in return unless the team really really really wants marbury, like the new york knicks did.

Nobody else on our team is really really wanted by another team...LB has the ability to improve trade value...so MoT and Rose may actually fetch us some quality role players or a Star.

To keep thinking that someone is going to hand the knicks over the star player, without including garbage that keeps us over the cap for another 5 years, is fools gold.

Let's just quietly get better over time and if we are contending when marbs is here, we are, if not, I'm pretty sure he'll pull a shaq and restructure his deal to allow additions.

i mean, honestly, is shaq worth $27 million this year?

yeah you have a good point about most of this stuff, i really wish the knicks could play a game without marbury though, Im very curious to see what would happen. anyway I actually disagree about some things but I appreciate you taking the time to convince me about the effects of marbs contract without resorting to childishly calling me a steph hater or a nets fan or some stupid nonsense. Ill think about the points you raised.
McK1
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12/1/2005  6:45 PM
if Isiah's intial plan was to paly for future capspace, ie not sign James, not trade for Marbury, then NY would've been under the cap in 07.

nope Trader isiah wanted to make a big splash and not only furthred the cap hell but traded away 2 more no. 1's right off the back.

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Quietly Steph played a good game last night.

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