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we all know isiah is a great drafter but did he make this mitsake...
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nyk4ever
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11/21/2005  3:55 PM
Posted by MaRbUrYiSaKnIcK:
Posted by OngBok:

Nate is a Iverson "wanna be" but only 4 inches shorter !!!

Chris Paul is Iverson except Chris Paul is younger and different hair


I disagree. Chris Paul doesn't need to score 30 points a game to be effective. Yes, he's an excellent scorer but he also is a playmaker and plays good defense. Iverson needs to shoot the ball 25 times a game to be effective, something very few other players in the NBA need.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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MaRbUrYiSaKnIcK
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11/21/2005  3:58 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by MaRbUrYiSaKnIcK:
Posted by OngBok:

Nate is a Iverson "wanna be" but only 4 inches shorter !!!

Chris Paul is Iverson except Chris Paul is younger and different hair

I meant they had similar attributes

I disagree. Chris Paul doesn't need to score 30 points a game to be effective. Yes, he's an excellent scorer but he also is a playmaker and plays good defense. Iverson needs to shoot the ball 25 times a game to be effective, something very few other players in the NBA need.


Marbury is finally home at MSG!
nyk4ever
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11/21/2005  4:03 PM
Posted by MaRbUrYiSaKnIcK:

I meant they had similar attributes

Haha ok, Marbury, sorry for the misunderstanding.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
islesfan
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11/21/2005  4:44 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by djsunyc:

no point in drafting jack when we already had marbury. nate brings something COMPLETELY different to the table.


Huh??? Nate is supposed to be our backup PG. Jack would be a much better option at PG for us. What exactly is Nate bringing to the table that you don't think Jack can provide? And I'm not talking marketing, I'm talking about playing winning basketball.

Speaking of which, Islesfan, I remember a while back you said based on the media angle Nate is the FACE OF THE KNICKS. You told us to watch MSG that night and said it was obvious that Nate is the new face of the Knicks. Hmmmmm Still feel that way?

Sorry Monk, I would have replied sooner but I was busy at work. You know how it is.

To answer you question, you're damn right I do. For a 10 minute a game rookie backup PG don't you think he gets a disproportionate amount of media attention? Of course he had to produce once his novelty started wearing off and he had to prove that he's worth the hype. None of this contradicts my prior comments that the Knicks marketing people were (with Isiah's insistence I'm sure), and still are, trying to hype this kid more than he deserves. But like anything else, if the sheen comes off Nate, Isiah will just find another host body to attach himself to the way he's left Marbury to go to Nate.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
BigRedDog
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11/21/2005  5:04 PM
After 9 games you're making this analysis? Jack doesn't have half the talent of nate. Nate just needs time to get adjusted to the nba. Write back in 3 yrs and lets see what you say.
fishmike 9/27/2024 11:00 PM Ug I hate this. The idea of Towns is great until you see what a pussy he is. Jules is a dog. DD was a flamethrower locked up cheap for 3 more years. First Leon move I hate
boomann
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11/21/2005  5:43 PM
After 9 games you're making this analysis? Jack doesn't have half the talent of nate. Nate just needs time to get adjusted to the nba. Write back in 3 yrs and lets see what you say.

I agree with you bigred. Everyone getting on Nate's back like he was going to come in and play like a lottery pick. Nate is playing a position that at this point in the season even Marbury is struggling. Trying to learn the point guard position under Larry Brown is very hard work and requires a little more discipline than Nate is showing right now. I don't remember Telfair even getting any significant playing time last year around this time and yet and still he scored 27 last night. Give the little guy some time and stop calling him a novelty and a marketing technique. Isiah would not draft a player if he didn't think he could help the team, that would be counter productive. And with everyone in the media screaming for Isiah's head everytime he makes a bad decision he's not in position to draft people just for a public image. If this dude was playing with Phoenix he'd be doing some fantastic things right now, but he's playing for the "All Knowing Larry Brown." Patience is a virtue we all need to learn.
"We need another shot blocker and we need more girth in the middle, once that happens we have a chance to be a pretty decent team" Isiah on draft night
nykshaknbake
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11/21/2005  5:59 PM
What the heck is up this this 'Impact stats' bull****? This is kinda like the whole 'starphucing' term; both made up to dismiss good players that you hate. I love how in a different thread, Marbury's 27 pts and 8 assits were not impact stats. How can you rack up those numbers and not have an impact? An assist is an assist. Impact assists is pure horse-poo.

Posted by metra:

Nate, Marbs, and Craw won't ever be legit PG's. PG is a quality that requires a unique type of thinking. Marbs doesnt have it and Nate doesn't have it. All the athletic ability and all the practice in the world won't change how they play the game which is SG.

Nate can score points and grab rebounds but he won't be dishing out impact assists. Plus lets stop kidding ourselves, its hard as hell for someone 5 7 whatever to be good in the league and Nate will never get more than 24mpg.
martin
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11/21/2005  6:47 PM
Posted by nykshaknbake:

What the heck is up this this 'Impact stats' bull****? This is kinda like the whole 'starphucing' term; both made up to dismiss good players that you hate. I love how in a different thread, Marbury's 27 pts and 8 assits were not impact stats. How can you rack up those numbers and not have an impact? An assist is an assist. Impact assists is pure horse-poo.

Posted by metra:

Nate, Marbs, and Craw won't ever be legit PG's. PG is a quality that requires a unique type of thinking. Marbs doesnt have it and Nate doesn't have it. All the athletic ability and all the practice in the world won't change how they play the game which is SG.

Nate can score points and grab rebounds but he won't be dishing out impact assists. Plus lets stop kidding ourselves, its hard as hell for someone 5 7 whatever to be good in the league and Nate will never get more than 24mpg.

nah man, maybe the phrase "impact stats" is not exactly right, but the meaning is. Marbury doesn't make the guys around him better as do other PGs in the league, or he does not get other guys as easy baskets as do other PGs. I wish I had the link, but I remember Marion being quoted as saying that with Nash, playing basketball was sooo much easier than with Marbury. It's about the PG understanding where, when and how the other players like to get the ball. Marbury has a low understanding in that area - but hey, he is as unguardable as the next PG and draws doubles which opens up other guys. It's a different type of PG is all.




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fishmike
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11/21/2005  7:23 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Andrew:

I agree....if LB was here proir to the draft he would have choosen Jack over Nate.

here's where my oliver stone ish starts kicking in...i think lb's input was used during the draft.
I agree 100% These guys are a fraternity. w/ all LB's health issues and the fact that he won a title w/ Detriot (taking some pressure off him) I think this has been "discussed" for some time.


"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
martin
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11/21/2005  7:26 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Andrew:

I agree....if LB was here proir to the draft he would have choosen Jack over Nate.

here's where my oliver stone ish starts kicking in...i think lb's input was used during the draft.
I agree 100% These guys are a fraternity. w/ all LB's health issues and the fact that he won a title w/ Detriot (taking some pressure off him) I think this has been "discussed" for some time.

same with Lee, accept I think both Zeke and Brown were in agreement - they both liked him a LOT.
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HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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11/21/2005  7:37 PM
No time to waste on "coulda, woulda, shoulda" stuff. I'm happy that Nate's here on this team. I like his hustle and charisma.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Bonn1997
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11/21/2005  7:56 PM
Posted by nykshaknbake:

What the heck is up this this 'Impact stats' bull****? This is kinda like the whole 'starphucing' term; both made up to dismiss good players that you hate. I love how in a different thread, Marbury's 27 pts and 8 assits were not impact stats. How can you rack up those numbers and not have an impact? An assist is an assist. Impact assists is pure horse-poo.

Posted by metra:

Nate, Marbs, and Craw won't ever be legit PG's. PG is a quality that requires a unique type of thinking. Marbs doesnt have it and Nate doesn't have it. All the athletic ability and all the practice in the world won't change how they play the game which is SG.

Nate can score points and grab rebounds but he won't be dishing out impact assists. Plus lets stop kidding ourselves, its hard as hell for someone 5 7 whatever to be good in the league and Nate will never get more than 24mpg.
I have the exact same view as you (nykshaknbake) in "impact stats." All 2 pt FGs and 3 Pt FGs count the same. An assist is an assist. People can make abstract claims like "Marbury doesn't bring out the best in players" or "Marbury doesn't know how teammates like to receive the ball" but every player on the Knick team last year had either their career average scoring or career high. He must have known something about how to pass the ball to them.



[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 11-21-2005 7:57 PM]
curry32
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11/21/2005  8:41 PM
not only that but i remember him talking to KVH about how he wanted to be fed his shots during a shoot around and i saw the motions and gestures they were making and KVH pointed to the wing where he wanted it. and i remember like 3 times marbury passing him the ball just how they set up that play. he scored 2/3 times. i know its alittle bit of a vague fact but it is a detailed point that marbury and his teammates obviously do talk about how they like to play and where they want the ball.
Bonn1997
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11/21/2005  8:43 PM
Posted by curry32:

not only that but i remember him talking to KVH about how he wanted to be fed his shots during a shoot around and i saw the motions and gestures they were making and KVH pointed to the wing where he wanted it. and i remember like 3 times marbury passing him the ball just how they set up that play. he scored 2/3 times. i know its alittle bit of a vague fact but it is a detailed point that marbury and his teammates obviously do talk about how they like to play and where they want the ball.
And no PG has fed Kurt on the pick and roll more precisely than Marbury did (and Frye will have the same benefit)
curry32
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11/21/2005  8:57 PM
if marbury is a loser bc he never won a playoff series, then KG was a loser up until 2 yrs ago... and guess what, KG has been in the league longer than marbury 2 yrs... ppl need to stop hating. stephon is an amazing pg.
Killa4luv
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11/22/2005  9:52 AM
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by djsunyc:

no point in drafting jack when we already had marbury. nate brings something COMPLETELY different to the table.


on the contrare, I think Nate plays a very similar style to marbury, only more aggressive and dicey.
Only more reckless and less effective.
knicksmsg33
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11/22/2005  10:15 AM
jack is a talent and went to the same school as Marbury, i was thinking we would pick him or ellis when isiah mentioend that we are going to be picking a PG in the draft.

I liked Taft and Blatche, but Isiah chose David Lee and i can say, we have loved Nate and Lee so far, they will make mistakes, but they will repay for them as they get better.

When Nate stops looking for his shot solely is when he will be a better distributor and he is getting better and better, as he plays with more poise and control. if he can develop the type of game tj ford has, he will be more nasty
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we all know isiah is a great drafter but did he make this mitsake...
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