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FRYE-ROY MATERIAL?????
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NotFrye
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11/20/2005  7:00 PM
Let's keep it civil homeboys.


word to your mother
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Rich
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11/20/2005  7:08 PM
He'll be in the mix.
bobs3304
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11/20/2005  7:09 PM
Most 3-4 year college grads these days (with the exception of a few of course) end up being solid players, but not All-Star caliber.

How is that so hard to accept?
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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11/20/2005  7:10 PM
Again....THESE days.

And that has alot to do with highschool phenoms declaring for the draft early, and the continuing trend of college players to leave early.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Nalod
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11/20/2005  7:12 PM
I'll jump in. Most of the best players already jumped so I can see the Ceiling argument.

Back 20 years ago most stayed 3 years.

The best players jump out of highschool, so they don't blossom in college the do so in the pros.
PhilinLA
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11/20/2005  7:15 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

Most 3-4 year college grads these days (with the exception of a few of course) end up being solid players, but not All-Star caliber.

How is that so hard to accept?
Most players period don't end up being All-Star caliber players. So what's your point?

There is and has been an idiotic overvaluation of teenagers by agents and the NBA. They have not been a breeed of super players and almost all of them could have used some college. Just because a still young player has spent three or four years in college doesn't mean he's peaked or maxed out his talent. There's been a complete undervaluation there and it's based on really faulty thinking.


http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
Rich
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11/20/2005  7:15 PM
A lot of the best players never reach their potential because they didn't play college ball.
bobs3304
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11/20/2005  7:23 PM
Posted by PhilinLA:
Posted by bobs3304:

Most 3-4 year college grads these days (with the exception of a few of course) end up being solid players, but not All-Star caliber.
Most players period don't end up being All-Star caliber players. So what's your point?

We're not talking about All-Stars in general. We're talking about the population of All-Stars (or lack thereof nowadays) that went to college for 3-4 years.

In the 80's, MOST All-Stars had gone to college for 2-4 years. Nowadays...that's not so much the case.

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
PhilinLA
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11/20/2005  7:29 PM
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by PhilinLA:
Posted by bobs3304:

Most 3-4 year college grads these days (with the exception of a few of course) end up being solid players, but not All-Star caliber.
Most players period don't end up being All-Star caliber players. So what's your point?

We're not talking about All-Stars in general. We're talking about the population of All-Stars (or lack thereof nowadays) that went to college for 3-4 years.

In the 80's, MOST All-Stars had gone to college for 2-4 years. Nowadays...that's not so much the case.

It's not going to be a significant trend. The new 19 year old rule came about not because Stern wanted to protect kids or the "college game." It came about because he wanted to protect owners from DerMarr Johnson's, Kwamie Brown's etc.

A kid who doesn't need years on the bench is a better buy, since you're getting return on your investment right away. But a 22 year old who's been to college is still growing into what he's gonna be, just like a high school phenom is as he matures.
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
technomaster
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11/20/2005  7:34 PM
I think Frye's role in Az has actually helped his transition. Most young players in the NBA struggle because they're not given the role of "the man" that they were accustomed to from high school, to college, to the NBA.

As a result, Frye doesn't try to do too much, he makes the most of his opportunities like a good role player.
Posted by bobs3304:

Chum, listen:


Those players were STARS at their respective programs.

Channing was a top-tier role player at Zona.

I like how he's playing. Pleasantly surprised. But most 3-4 year grad players playing in the league today don't have very high ceilings past their college career.

And don't lecture me on any past players mmplayyze.

DVD + Classic Sports = Me Not Dumb.


“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
newyorknewyork
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11/20/2005  8:02 PM
Its all about Frye's work ethic. Maybe his #s won't ever jump up drastically, but his impact on games could allways get stronger & stronger. He has a lot of tools as well as smarts, and some good physical gifts. I would be very very happy if he was a 17-8-1.5blks. He has been showing he could be that type of player. But the encouraging part is he has been showing it very early and keeps looking better and better since summer league.
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OasisBU
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11/20/2005  8:20 PM
Channing was a great pick up, he should be considered for ROY if he continues at this level/gets better. I think he has a bright future and I am glad the Knicks got someone who is mature and well coached. This teem needed that.
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
joec32033
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11/20/2005  9:34 PM
KG, Kobe, TMac, JO, Lebron, Amare, Rashard -6 "stars" from HS.-Rashard is borderline

Camby,Ray Allen, Duncan, Billups, Jamison, Carter, Pierce, (on a side note, Nowitzki was Jr age when drafted at 21), Kenyon Martin, Richard Jefferson, Prince, Wade, Josh Howard, Emeka...all 3-4 year players....the number of busts is too large to list for underclassmen and college Frosh....just go to http://www.nbadraft.net and start from 1995....

~You can't run from who you are.~
Nalod
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11/20/2005  9:37 PM
Its good to see if a kid does not dominate at the college level he will be found in need of seasoning.

The 19 year old rule is good.

There will always be examples, but lets just say Kwame did go to Carolina his weakness's would have been revealed and perhaps he could have worked on them, and matured in "life" at the same time.

Kwame may still make it yet, but it keeps losers like Jordan from picking him one overall! LOL! (JUST AS GM!)

T-mac, KG, and KoBE were destined for greatness.

Guys like CHanning needed more time. But this kid can still improve for few more years.
CrushAlot
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11/20/2005  9:51 PM
Frye comes from a great program where guys have gone on to have more individual success in the NBA than they had in college (i.e. Richard Jefferson, Gilbert Arenas). I think he has a huge upside and will be one of Isiah's picks that people talk about down the road.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
bobs3304
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11/20/2005  10:46 PM
Posted by joec32033:


Camby,Ray Allen, Duncan, Billups, Jamison, Carter, Pierce, (on a side note, Nowitzki was Jr age when drafted at 21), Kenyon Martin, Richard Jefferson, Prince, Wade, Josh Howard, Emeka...all 3-4 year players....the number of busts is too large to list for underclassmen and college Frosh....just go to http://www.nbadraft.net and start from 1995....

I know that Wade and Howard only played like 2 years. So that doesn't really apply.

K-Mart isn't an All-Star.

Not sure about Camby.


The point remains though.....most 3-4 year college grads nowadays don't make big improvements or changes in their game.


DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
tkf
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11/20/2005  11:22 PM
Bobs: you are not making sense man. Today people have been brainwashed that if you are not 19 then you have no upside, that is just ridiculous.. Tim Duncan, Ray Allen, shaq, Wade, all are 3-4 year players, all are stars or superstars and champions. I don't see your point, or are you goint to tell me that kwame Brown has a higher ceiling than frye or bogut, or Okafor? come on!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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11/20/2005  11:27 PM
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by joec32033:


Camby,Ray Allen, Duncan, Billups, Jamison, Carter, Pierce, (on a side note, Nowitzki was Jr age when drafted at 21), Kenyon Martin, Richard Jefferson, Prince, Wade, Josh Howard, Emeka...all 3-4 year players....the number of busts is too large to list for underclassmen and college Frosh....just go to http://www.nbadraft.net and start from 1995....

I know that Wade and Howard only played like 2 years. So that doesn't really apply.

K-Mart isn't an All-Star.

Not sure about Camby.


The point remains though.....most 3-4 year college grads nowadays don't make big improvements or changes in their game.


ok, so prove it, just don't throw it out there enough times and hope it sticks, prove it.. give us some reasonable evidence.

Are you telling me that Duhon, Hinrich, and ben gordon are not improving? Or michael redd? I mean this guy is a allstar type player and a 4 year college player? wade I think was a junior... How about Okafor? or has elton Brand not gotten better over the years? What about TJ ford? or guys like Ricky Davis with boston? all I ask from you is some proof..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
bobs3304
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11/20/2005  11:36 PM
to be honest, this isn't exactly a topic i care about, but what I meant is that 3-4 year college grads, on average, don't improve THAT much in comparison to younger, less experienced players.

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Killa4luv
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11/21/2005  1:14 AM
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by joec32033:


Camby,Ray Allen, Duncan, Billups, Jamison, Carter, Pierce, (on a side note, Nowitzki was Jr age when drafted at 21), Kenyon Martin, Richard Jefferson, Prince, Wade, Josh Howard, Emeka...all 3-4 year players....the number of busts is too large to list for underclassmen and college Frosh....just go to http://www.nbadraft.net and start from 1995....

I know that Wade and Howard only played like 2 years. So that doesn't really apply.

K-Mart isn't an All-Star.

Not sure about Camby.


The point remains though.....most 3-4 year college grads nowadays don't make big improvements or changes in their game.
K-Mart has been an all-star and Camby has been a runner up for defensive player of the year for about 2-3 years now.
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