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Is Jordan a legend because he came into the league a 20 years early?
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Nalod
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11/19/2005  5:18 PM
Jordan was the strongest mentally of any athlete I can remember. The dude was focused, professional off the court, prepared, and could exist in the moment and take it.

And was genetically gifted with many things including the ability to stay healthy! He used every tool to the fullest.
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gunsnewing
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11/19/2005  5:23 PM
Posted by NotFrye:
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by NotFrye:

this argument is bogus, given that the only realy mitigating factor for jordan now is zone defense. What was great about jordan's game was that he demanded double and triple teams and moved the ball around getting the open man the shot. With zone defense, it's a lot easier to smother a player and prevent repeated iso plays (remember the spree + houston days?).

That said, briggs brings up actual proof to the counter-argument- that a 40 year old, broken down jordan was able to score 40+ points in the "modern" nba era. I also recall the all star game where early 20s kobe went at a 35 year-old Jordan and got schooled. If Kobe is the "great" modern player, and is able to have dominant stretches, I see no reason why Jordan couldn't as well. I also think Hakeem or Wilt in their primes would be whoring the competition presently.
[Edited by - notfrye on 11-19-2005 10:38 AM]
LeBron versus Jordan?
Jordan versus Artest?
I'm not saying Jordan isn't "great," but would he have been legendary if he played now?

Without question, Yes.

Jordan would eat either of those guys alive, and probably talk trash while he did it.




[Edited by - notfrye on 11-19-2005 11:05 AM]


no doubt in my mind. I don't even know how this is a question. If you saw Jordan play in the 90s you know these guys don't hold a candle to him
JUNKMEIN
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11/19/2005  5:50 PM
Ahhemmm, Jordan shot 50% for his career. 6 rings as the best player on his team. I won't commit sacrilege and put the guys name below on the same line with Air.

Kobe will be lucky to stay at 40% at that rate he chucks balls at the rim. No more Shaq means no more rings...and no, Kwame doesn't do it. It'll be 3 or 4 years before Bynum is ready.

As i've stated earlier, Kobe Bryant isn't even the best two guard in the game. Vince Carter is better as he shoots with range and accuracy (i.e. not a CHUCKER), looks for his teammates and at a higher shooting percentage than Kobe. I repeat, 18 shots in the first half...did I mention that he took 18 shots in the second half (that's 36 shots to reach 42 points)...all against a Knicks team that's trying to find itself in it's first 8 games.

Wade is better...right now.

Jordan, is an alltime classic. It's like reasoning that a 2005 Corvette is better than a 1958 Corvette because it's newer, faster and was designed by younger engineers. Absurd. Without the 58' Vette their's no 05' Corvette.

Bow that *** down

[Edited by - Junkmein on 11-19-2005 5:53 PM]
codeunknown
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11/19/2005  5:54 PM
Even at 40, Jordan's jumper was enough to net him 20 per game. Not to mention he had the best post game I've ever seen in a SG. Also, the best defender I've seen at SG.

In his prime, he was athletically the same as Kobe and T-Mac, maybe a notch below Vince and Lebron. I think Kobe and DWade are better ball-handlers, but Jordan won't lose many other comparisons.

Lebron hasn't been in the league long enough to offer a significant overall comparison - but he does have the potential to be better than Jordan. His jumper is already refined, he has the best court-vision I've seen in a SG and he's athletically un-matched. His handle is not quite elite yet, his defense could use work and his post-game is still non-existent.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
Panos
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11/19/2005  5:55 PM
Posted by BigRedDog:

artest as good as jordan if not better?
Ha Ha
How old are you? Did you actually see Jordan his whole career?Not only a legend but IMHO the BEST player EVER!! Jordan would eat artest for breakfast, lunch and dinner

Yes, thank you. Artest, what a joke.
MX25
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11/19/2005  7:29 PM
Jordan is the Best Backcourt player ever. Simple as that.
OldFan
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11/20/2005  12:30 AM
Posted by Caseloads:

Since the Knicks suck, I pondered this question earlier this morning:

Is Jordan a legend because he came into the league a 20 years early?

If Jordan came into the league now and had to go up against Vince, T-mac, Wade, Melo, Kobe, Ray Allen, Tayshaun Prince, Artest, Lebron, etc... would Jordan still have been a legend? I say no way. Please. I would say Lebron and Artest are at least as good as Jordan was, if not better. I think Jordan played against much shorter and weaker SGs back in the 80s and 90s. The league is so much bigger, stronger, faster now and that was what made Jordan such a winner. Yes, Jordan had a "winners-mentality," "game wisdom" and that "killer instinct" but seriously, Artest and Lebron at the minimum would have crushed Jordan's guts.


http://www.nba.com/news/survey_2005.html?rss=true

Average height hasn't changed in the last 20 years. Weight has gone up 9lbs - not that big a difference.


Dominique Wilkens, Clyde Drexler were 6-8 and 6-7 and weighed over 220. They could both jump out of the building. Lebron is bigger but no one else on your list is. Magic Johnson was 6'9 240 and played the point - not as athletic but a basketball IQ that puts any of the players you've listed to shame. Barkley played the three at over 250 and no way Artest or prince or Melo or any of the other 3's you have listed could shut him down. Penny before he got hurt was a 6'7 1-2 who could also jump out of the building. Grant Hill - before he got hurt was a pretty fair athlete.

Ray Allen and R. Millers career overlapped a lot - who had a better career? WHo could take more out of a players offense by making him work on D.

Rodman was a better defender then any of em - and yes he guarded 3s and even 2s. Mitch Richmond was 6'5 220 and was certainly as athletic as Artest, Prince, Allen and some of the other lesser names on your list. James Worthy or T-prince - come on thats a joke comparison. All of these guys overlapped with Jordon. I just don't see how the players of 2005 or any better then the players of the 80s and 90s. Physically if they have any edge it's minor - team play and basketball smarts - I'd take 80 and 90s. Jordan played against competition at LEAST as good as today and dominated. He came back with 1/2 the athletic skills he use to have and did pretty well against a lot of the guys on your list.

PS - I hated Jordan - so I'm not saying this because I'm a fan.

[Edited by - oldfan on 11-20-2005 12:40 AM]
bobs3304
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11/20/2005  1:42 AM
you can throw forensics and stats and w/e else you got into this thread and it wouldn't matter --

Jordan played against better competition than we have today. And if you threw him in the 60's, he'd still be 1 of the best ever.

And lemme add this - I HATE MJ.....but I gotta give props when props is due...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
BRIGGS
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11/20/2005  1:59 AM
Posted by bobs3304:

you can throw forensics and stats and w/e else you got into this thread and it wouldn't matter --

Jordan played against better competition than we have today. And if you threw him in the 60's, he'd still be 1 of the best ever.

And lemme add this - I HATE MJ.....but I gotta give props when props is due...


In terms of pure physical talent, Lebron James , imho, is going to be a better basketball player. He doesnt match Mike in mental toughness, but for goodnes sakes he matches him in pure talent. Lebron is the best player in the NBA hands down right now.
RIP Crushalot😞
bobs3304
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11/20/2005  2:14 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

In terms of pure physical talent, Lebron James , imho, is going to be a better basketball player. He doesnt match Mike in mental toughness, but for goodnes sakes he matches him in pure talent. Lebron is the best player in the NBA hands down right now.

Lebron doesn't have the killer mentality that MJ had.

It's not something you can learn or develop.

Lebron, IMO, is a suped-up Grant Hill...


DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
OldFan
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11/20/2005  8:06 AM
http://In terms of pure physical talent, Lebron James , imho, is going to be a better basketball player. He doesnt match Mike in mental toughness, but for goodnes sakes he matches him in pure talent. Lebron is the best player in the NBA hands down right now.

I agree Lebron is the only guy currently playing who has a chance to be as good as MJ. But I still think you have to project his future to get him to MJs peek level and that if MJ was in the league today at his best he would be dominant.
Bonn1997
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11/20/2005  8:59 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by bobs3304:

you can throw forensics and stats and w/e else you got into this thread and it wouldn't matter --

Jordan played against better competition than we have today. And if you threw him in the 60's, he'd still be 1 of the best ever.

And lemme add this - I HATE MJ.....but I gotta give props when props is due...


In terms of pure physical talent, Lebron James , imho, is going to be a better basketball player. He doesnt match Mike in mental toughness, but for goodnes sakes he matches him in pure talent. Lebron is the best player in the NBA hands down right now.
What's Lebron doing right now that Wade isn't doing? Lebron is younger and has a body with more upside, but right now no one's playing better than Wade
Silverfuel
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11/20/2005  10:32 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

In terms of pure physical talent, Lebron James , imho, is going to be a better basketball player. He doesnt match Mike in mental toughness, but for goodnes sakes he matches him in pure talent. Lebron is the best player in the NBA hands down right now.
Hands down, BronBron is the best. Right now, Wade is a better scorer but I think that will change. Lebron did a triple double last night btw.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Bonn1997
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11/20/2005  11:53 AM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by BRIGGS:

In terms of pure physical talent, Lebron James , imho, is going to be a better basketball player. He doesnt match Mike in mental toughness, but for goodnes sakes he matches him in pure talent. Lebron is the best player in the NBA hands down right now.
Hands down, BronBron is the best. Right now, Wade is a better scorer but I think that will change. Lebron did a triple double last night btw.
This year, Wade's been the better scorer, rebounder, and passer so far. (Obviously it's early, but the difference in their #s is striking.)
Stevo718
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11/20/2005  2:45 PM
How many players today can dunk off the free throw line? Players might be a TAD more athletic today but on the average they are also have less basketball IQ.

You telling me Dominique Wilkens wouldn't be pulling those nasty dunks today?

How many people are really "last second 4th quarter last shot to win the game clutch?" ... you can say Kobe , but I remember him missing a lot more shots in those situations than making them.
newyorknewyork
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11/20/2005  3:01 PM
Jordan would have just adapted and dominated this era also. But Jordan was bigger than basketball. Refs gave him all the calls, he got away with walks and carries, was able to be more aggressive on defense then his opponent was able to be. He was the face of the NBA and was treated so.

Lebron or Wade could be the same way. I know Lebron prepares and trains as hard as anyone, When he was preparing for the NBA he was the first player at practice for the Mcdonalds game and the last one to leave. During the summer he holds workouts and its said that Lebron James makes the atmosphere over there extremely competitive. Its all about there professionalism they show. Then the NBA will make sure they become bigger than the game to. But I don't think anyone would compare to Jordan's legend.
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NotFrye
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11/21/2005  12:22 AM
Gerald Green > MJ
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Is Jordan a legend because he came into the league a 20 years early?
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