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Let's talk rookie big men...
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Allanfan20
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10/24/2005  1:20 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

right now I would've taken Frye over anyone and maybe even over Bogut! Man, Isiah is the man!!


I love Frye and I'm making him my favorite player now, but that statement completely supports the statement I made in the trade for Salmons thread.
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diderotn
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10/24/2005  1:23 PM
why are you all so crazy about Salmons? who is he? what has he done?
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gunsnewing
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10/24/2005  1:28 PM
Posted by Marv:

guns i'm getting a kick out of your reaction to frye now considering what you put yourself through over him all summer


my laptop was abducted by aliens who happened to be very big Bynum fans. I swear!!
Marv
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10/24/2005  1:33 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Marv:

guns i'm getting a kick out of your reaction to frye now considering what you put yourself through over him all summer


my laptop was abducted by aliens who happened to be very big Bynum fans. I swear!!

KNEW it!


gunsnewing
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10/24/2005  1:34 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by gunsnewing:

right now I would've taken Frye over anyone and maybe even over Bogut! Man, Isiah is the man!!


I love Frye and I'm making him my favorite player now, but that statement completely supports the statement I made in the trade for Salmons thread.


two completely different scenarios. Frye is better than Lee & Salmons. I haven't seen Bogut play yet but he seems to be having a harder time adjusting. Frye is just so smooth in every aspect of the game. he's stayed out of foul trouble & is shooting a great percentage. Bogut may be a bit tougher but he's not as good a shooter and not as athletic around the basket

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 10-24-2005 1:36 PM]
tkf
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10/24/2005  5:54 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

it'll be a lot easier to decide once we see them play in the regular season. I still would've taken Bogut. He is going to be very good once the season starts


hey, maybe someone will pull up my quote 3 months from now to call me out on this, but i saw Bogut play twice so far, and I was not impressed at all, now I know it is early but bogut right now looks no better than his teamate Dan gadzurich...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Pharzeone
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10/24/2005  6:00 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by gunsnewing:

right now I would've taken Frye over anyone and maybe even over Bogut! Man, Isiah is the man!!


I love Frye and I'm making him my favorite player now, but that statement completely supports the statement I made in the trade for Salmons thread.


two completely different scenarios. Frye is better than Lee & Salmons. I haven't seen Bogut play yet but he seems to be having a harder time adjusting. Frye is just so smooth in every aspect of the game. he's stayed out of foul trouble & is shooting a great percentage. Bogut may be a bit tougher but he's not as good a shooter and not as athletic around the basket

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 10-24-2005 1:36 PM]


I am not a big Bogut fan to say the least but don't put to much stock into his performance so far. I seen a couple of his preseason games and the guy is playing hard but guys are playing hard against him. The mistake he made was trash talk before he got into the league. That beating he took from Big Ben should have be a humbling experience. And as far as Isiah saying he would have taken Frye over Bogut. That gets alot of play on this site but no one mentions Thorn said the same thing. hmm.... And they weren't alone. I think most of the bigs taken in this draft will be more than competent. I think this draft will be remembered as being one of the best drafts for sometime.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
tomverve
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10/24/2005  8:39 PM
Posted by Marv:

if anyone has a link for all rookie preseason stats could you please post it?


http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Scoring.jsp?league=00&season=12005&conf=OVERALL&position=0&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=0&splitDD=

Here's per 40 minutes so far for prominent rookie forwards and centers, ranked by points per 40:

Player     - PTS  - RBD  - AST - BLK - STL -  FG%  -  FT%  - MPG

Frye       - 24.9 -  9.4 - 2.0 - 1.2 - 2.0 - 54.3% - 73.3% - 19.6
Villanueva - 19.4 -  6.3 - 1.5 - 1.5 - 1.3 - 44.6% - 53.8% - 31.8
Granger    - 17.5 - 12.7 - 1.8 - 1.7 - 1.7 - 36.8% - 72.4% - 29.3
Butler     - 17.0 - 12.1 - 2.2 - 3.3 - 1.1 - 50.0% - 60.0% - 14.6
Warrick    - 16.6 -  5.1 - 1.0 - 0.3 - 1.7 - 41.9% - 68.4% - 23.6
Lee        - 16.2 - 10.1 - 3.1 - 0.0 - 2.2 - 40.6% - 47.8% - 23.0
Gomes      - 15.0 - 10.3 - 1.6 - 0.3 - 2.3 - 39.4% - 79.2% - 20.5
Graham     - 13.1 -  4.2 - 1.0 - 0.0 - 1.9 - 46.2% - 100%  - 28.3
Bogut      - 12.2 -  9.7 - 3.0 - 0.5 - 1.2 - 51.4% - 57.9% - 26.8
Williams   - 11.9 -  6.0 - 1.3 - 0.0 - 1.0 - 35.5% - 77.8% - 24.2


[Edited by - tomverve on 10-24-2005 8:44 PM]
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Bonn1997
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10/24/2005  10:11 PM
It's hard to project per 40 min when a player's only averaging 19 mpg, but still I think Frye's scoring and especially rebounding per 40 min #s are extremely impressive. Butler's and Lee's look pretty good too. Where's Bynum on the list?
Marv
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10/24/2005  11:04 PM
thanks for that readout you gave and that link tom. man there's some good stuff on that link - you can lose yourself for a while configuring different lists of rookie stats.
i don't see bynun at all. has he not played preseason at all?

plus i gotta admit there are a number of guys really struggling who i would have been happy to grab at 22 or 30.
Bonn1997
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10/24/2005  11:13 PM
I think the Lakers decided he wasn't ready for preseason level competition
curry32
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10/25/2005  12:12 AM
i think frye is a top 3 rebounder in that draft class
Solace
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10/25/2005  5:59 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

I think the Lakers decided he wasn't ready for preseason level competition

He's injured. He has a "slight abdominal tear", as I read it.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Bonn1997
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10/25/2005  6:27 AM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I think the Lakers decided he wasn't ready for preseason level competition

He's injured. He has a "slight abdominal tear", as I read it.
Oh I see. I thought I read that he was an NBDL candidate and assumed that meant they thought he wasn't ready for any NBA level play. (He might still be an NBDL candidate though.)
Pharzeone
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10/25/2005  12:34 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I think the Lakers decided he wasn't ready for preseason level competition

He's injured. He has a "slight abdominal tear", as I read it.

Yep. He is injured. He is Kareem pet project as well as Kwame Brown. I think Bynum will take a year or more to adjust but he looks like his is on a nice track. Karem said he is very coachable. Brown is a knucklehead with all his off the court stuff. They need to get those two far apart.

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Solace
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10/25/2005  12:37 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I think the Lakers decided he wasn't ready for preseason level competition

He's injured. He has a "slight abdominal tear", as I read it.

Yep. He is injured. He is Kareem pet project as well as Kwame Brown. I think Bynum will take a year or more to adjust but he looks like his is on a nice track. Karem said he is very coachable. Brown is a knucklehead with all his off the court stuff. They need to get those two far apart.

That has the potential to be either the best or the worst frontcourt we've seen in a while. If those two hit their potentials, they'll win a few championships. If Kwame stays a problem, and is a 8 ppg and 4 rpg guy and Bynum is a bust, the Lakers won't see the playoffs for a long time. There's a lot of variances. However... I do think Bynum is a rare big man, maybe even a little rarer than Curry. I think he will be a good one. Kwame, I'm still not sure of. I don't think he will become a star, but I do think he will become a decent roleplayer, a la Joe Smith.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Pharzeone
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10/25/2005  12:47 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I think the Lakers decided he wasn't ready for preseason level competition

He's injured. He has a "slight abdominal tear", as I read it.

Yep. He is injured. He is Kareem pet project as well as Kwame Brown. I think Bynum will take a year or more to adjust but he looks like his is on a nice track. Karem said he is very coachable. Brown is a knucklehead with all his off the court stuff. They need to get those two far apart.

That has the potential to be either the best or the worst frontcourt we've seen in a while. If those two hit their potentials, they'll win a few championships. If Kwame stays a problem, and is a 8 ppg and 4 rpg guy and Bynum is a bust, the Lakers won't see the playoffs for a long time. There's a lot of variances. However... I do think Bynum is a rare big man, maybe even a little rarer than Curry. I think he will be a good one. Kwame, I'm still not sure of. I don't think he will become a star, but I do think he will become a decent roleplayer, a la Joe Smith.

Right now, I don't see any reason to even think that Bynum will be as gifted offensively as Curry. Even Shaq thinks Curry will eventually develop into one of the best low post scorers. I have serious doubt that Bynum is as athlethic than Curry. I don't think Bynum has his range of moves on the blocks. I think Bynum will try to be a better defender then what Curry has shown but his SL games weren't great indications. As far as Brown who probably has the most superior talent compared to the 3 of them has less heart than TT.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
tkf
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10/25/2005  12:56 PM
I don't think that Kwame's talent is superior to Frye, nevertheless curry. Kwame doesn't have great hands, is not a great leaper, and his footwork is average. It think curry is on a whole different level offensively and so far frye offensively and even defensively is two steps ahead of Brown. I really thought kwame would be special, I watched some lakers games and it seems as if he just can't put it all together for any consistent stretch..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Solace
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10/25/2005  12:58 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I think the Lakers decided he wasn't ready for preseason level competition

He's injured. He has a "slight abdominal tear", as I read it.

Yep. He is injured. He is Kareem pet project as well as Kwame Brown. I think Bynum will take a year or more to adjust but he looks like his is on a nice track. Karem said he is very coachable. Brown is a knucklehead with all his off the court stuff. They need to get those two far apart.

That has the potential to be either the best or the worst frontcourt we've seen in a while. If those two hit their potentials, they'll win a few championships. If Kwame stays a problem, and is a 8 ppg and 4 rpg guy and Bynum is a bust, the Lakers won't see the playoffs for a long time. There's a lot of variances. However... I do think Bynum is a rare big man, maybe even a little rarer than Curry. I think he will be a good one. Kwame, I'm still not sure of. I don't think he will become a star, but I do think he will become a decent roleplayer, a la Joe Smith.

Right now, I don't see any reason to even think that Bynum will be as gifted offensively as Curry. Even Shaq thinks Curry will eventually develop into one of the best low post scorers. I have serious doubt that Bynum is as athlethic than Curry. I don't think Bynum has his range of moves on the blocks. I think Bynum will try to be a better defender then what Curry has shown but his SL games weren't great indications. As far as Brown who probably has the most superior talent compared to the 3 of them has less heart than TT.

We'll have to see. Curry's also been in the league longer. I hope you're right about Curry.

Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Pharzeone
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10/25/2005  1:11 PM
Posted by tkf:

I don't think that Kwame's talent is superior to Frye, nevertheless curry. Kwame doesn't have great hands, is not a great leaper, and his footwork is average. It think curry is on a whole different level offensively and so far frye offensively and even defensively is two steps ahead of Brown. I really thought kwame would be special, I watched some lakers games and it seems as if he just can't put it all together for any consistent stretch..

I was following Solace's train of thought when he was comparing the 3 individuals (Curry, Brown, and Bynum). It maybe possible that at the 4 spot Frye maybe the better player because of athlethicism, outside shooting. At the 5 spot he would probably only rate better to Brown. To be considered special at the 5, I think a person should come close to putting numbers like 23-24ppg, 12rpg and 2 blocks. To me Frye has more upside at the 4 spot than say Bogut does at the 5. His skills are better equip for today's NBA than others.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
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