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STEPHON IS NOT A SG... JAMAL IS NOT A PG
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bobs3304
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10/22/2005  3:25 AM
^ Whatever. I meant more the casual fan than you or me.

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 10-22-2005 03:26 AM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
AUTOADVERT
McK1
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10/22/2005  3:26 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I disagree Bobs. Stephon is a slashing pg which in this type of offense is exactly what the PG needs to do. I agree Stephon is not a PG for every team in the NBA but he certainly fits the Knicks and over 50% of NBA teams. The ability that sets Stephon apart from Jamal and other "PGs" is the ability to drive and dish, the dishing on this team can goto Q for a Set-Three, it can goto Ariza whom is cutting to the basket, it can goto Frye for a baseline-jumper or it can goto Curry for an alley-oop. While I don't think Stephon is a true PG, he makes good decisions with the basketball, if you take the ball out of his hands as PG of the Knicks you lose alot of what I just mentioned becuase Jamal Crawford is not skilled or smart enough to make those passes. I've seen what Jamal does with the basketball he shoots it and rarely sets up ANY teammate with a better shot.

I've seen Jamal connect more with finding his big man in the lane tonight be from the top of the key or driving than Steph this whole pre-season. I watched Jamal hit Reezy baseline with a beatiful bounce-pass in traffic for the lay-up. when was the last time Steph thru a bounce-pass on any part of the court. I watched Jamal hit steph with a bullet chest pass cutting down the lane for a lay-up (wich Steph missed). The only and last time Steph fired a pass into the lane was that ugly ass spin pass he threw to TT who finished with an even uglier flip. Steph's ONLY pass is the kick-out. you're full of it if you're claiming he is some kind of passing wiz out there.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
McK1
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10/22/2005  3:30 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by McK1:

Stephon has been a very good stat padder thru-out his career. Stephon is as big of a turnstile on D and in 9 years of the NBA teh self proclaimed greatest point guard has led his teams to what exactly.
2 Exec's of the Year (Thorn and Clangelo) and 2 COY's (Scott and d' Antoni) for starters disagree with your assessment of Steph as an excellent playmaker.

Brown thinks Craw can play point or he wouldn't give him the rock.

Jim Paxson LET Jamal Crawford go away from the Bulls who were an up and coming team who drafted Crawford very in the NBA draft and let him go becuase he couldn't run his team. Paxson isn't even a COY and he disagrees with you, don't give that crap as your agrugment, you can do better then that. Bobs is the one making this interesting.




[Edited by - nyk4ever on 10-22-2005 03:24 AM]

and you're making this boring with bad information.

COY? up and coming?
John Paxson couldn't be a COY since he isn't the coach and they traded him after a 23 win season.

Craw was never point under Pax. Jay Williams and Heinrich. They trid to make him a 2 in Chicago b/c he can score.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
nyk4ever
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10/22/2005  3:30 AM
Posted by McK1:


I've seen Jamal connect more with finding his big man in the lane tonight be from the top of the key or driving than Steph this whole pre-season. I watched Jamal hit Reezy baseline with a beatiful bounce-pass in traffic for the lay-up. when was the last time Steph thru a bounce-pass on any part of the court. I watched Jamal hit steph with a bullet chest pass cutting down the lane for a lay-up (wich Steph missed). The only and last time Steph fired a pass into the lane was that ugly ass spin pass he threw to TT who finished with an even uglier flip. Steph's ONLY pass is the kick-out. you're full of it if you're claiming he is some kind of passing wiz out there.

McK1, its clear that we're not going to agree on this, but just for the sake of argument... I'm just curious, is there a reason that you can tell me why Jamal was let go by the Bulls when they were on the verge of making the playoffs and it was clear that Kirk Heinreich was NOT the answer at PG, making the position easily available to Crawford? I haven't seen much change in Craw, to me this preseason he's still the same exact player that he was last year which is a chucker
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bobs3304
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10/22/2005  3:31 AM
You could argue that Pax (or Skiles) is making the same mistake by letting Hinrich play the 2, which would make it the coaches/GM's fault.....not Crawford's.

He just has to find his nich...

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 10-22-2005 03:32 AM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
nyk4ever
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10/22/2005  3:33 AM
Posted by bobs3304:

You could argue that Pax (or Skiles) is making the same mistake by letting Hinrich play the 2, which would make it the coaches/GM's fault.....not Crawford's.

He just has to find his nich...

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 10-22-2005 03:32 AM]


I'm tired of combo PG/SGs. I think Marbury is MUCH more suited to play the point then Crawford is but I'm waiting for Larry to goto Isiah and say, I need a TRUE PG in here to run this team or else it's not going to work.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
McK1
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10/22/2005  3:36 AM
as I just stated they were a team that won 20 something games so
NO there is no way how I can explain why he was let go from this imaginary team on the verge.

Heinrich is a good pg and the guy Paxson and Skiles wanted to run their squad. And he obviously is the annswer for them considering they won 47 games last season and made the play-offs after over a half-decade.

1 thing is for sure:

he is no good paired next to another point guard b/c he needs the ball in his hands to be effective.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
nyk4ever
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10/22/2005  3:38 AM
Posted by McK1:

as I just stated they were a team that won 20 something games so
NO there is no way how I can explain why he was let go from this imaginary team on the verge.

Heinrich is a good pg and the guy Paxson and Skiles wanted to run their squad. And he obviously is the annswer for them considering they won 47 games last season and made the play-offs after over a half-decade.

1 thing is for sure:

he is no good paired next to another point guard b/c he needs the ball in his hands to be effective.


Heinrich isn't even the PG now, its Chris Duhon, a true PG. Cmon McK1, he leaves the team and the following year they are arguably a injury or 2 away(Curry and Deng) from being in the Eastern Conference Finals. I understand the same thing can be said about Marbury with Phoenix and New Jersey but in both places he was replaced with All-Star PG's. The point I'm trying to make is that Chicago realized that Jamal wasn't a PG and so did Michigan, who had one of their WORST years in recent years when Crawford was on the team for that one year he played there.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 10-22-2005 03:40 AM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
McK1
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10/22/2005  3:39 AM
Combo point, scoring point same premise. If Steph were 3 inches taller he'd be labeled a combo guard as well.

Regardless of what kind of point you call him, the guy handling the rock needs to be a floor general. Steph is a sulker.

-----

Duhon is the point. Chi was an injury away from the ECF's. are you serious?

-----

Michigan hasn't been good since the Fab 5 days.

[Edited by - McK1 on 10-22-2005 03:41 AM]

[Edited by - McK1 on 10-22-2005 03:42 AM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
nyk4ever
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10/22/2005  3:43 AM
Posted by McK1:

Combo point, scoring point same premise. If Steph were 3 inches taller he'd be labeled a combo guard as well.

Regardless of what kind of point you call him, the guy handling the rock needs to be a floor general. Steph is a sulker.

Duhon is the point. Chi was an injury away from the ECF's. are you serious?

[Edited by - McK1 on 10-22-2005 03:41 AM]


What did that series with the Wizards go last year, wasn't it 5 games? With Curry and Deng that is Chicago in 4. Next round would have been extremely interesting is all I'm saying.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
McK1
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10/22/2005  3:49 AM
Curry and Deng turn a 4-1 play-off loss into a sweep for Chi?!?


the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
tkf
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10/22/2005  8:52 AM
why do people keep saying steph is a good playmaker? He isn't, he is a good passer, but not playmaker, guys like kidd and nash, create lanes and are creative passers, they are playmakers, marbury is a scorer... Just look at kid run a break.... you will see a difference...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
simrud
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10/22/2005  10:28 AM
Its preseaon guys, Marbury is not a bad passer. The knock on him is his man to man defense. And his lack of leadership.
I would not say that passing is a problem with Marbury.

As for Craw, I'd have to see him play the right way for at lest 10-15 games straight before I will say he is gettin better. 4 preseason games in which he has streches there he looks like he is playing better is not even evidence.

The way Brown has played whoever in this first four games really does not provide any inidcation of who is starting and what the rotations are. I mean now they started James who btw showed just how much he sucks( I know, one game, coming back from an injury, but I just hate him so much so I'll take a chip shot at him anyways lol).

At least Rose did not play. But Penny seems to be a permanent fixture, literally. Cause he is really not doing anything bout there on the court, and moving like H20 last year just before calling it quits on defense. If they play him 20 minutes he will soon become the new goat, the next Shanerson lol.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
fishmike
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10/22/2005  11:01 AM
let me say something about guards and the NBA. The standard has changed, and this is a result of the rules. A guy like Derek Harper wouldnt be as effective as he was 10 years ago, and likewise a ton of guys wouldnt be as effective 10 years ago as they are now. Harper, Doc Rivers, Starks... these guys used to pound you on the perimeter. Now you cant touch them. It just puts playmaking and ball handling skills at a premium, and the result is a new player: the combo guard. Whats more is you see some pretty succesfull backcourts with 2 of them, rather than a clear pg/sg combo.
Hinrich/Gordon/Duhon
Hughes/Arenas
Francis/Nelson
Williams/Wade
Boykins/Miller (they play alot together)

I'm sure there is more but you get the idea. Ad Marbury/Crawford to that list. You cant pressure Marbury to give up the ball as you have 2 PGs on the floor, and you cant swarm to one either as both are explosive scorers.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
McK1
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10/22/2005  11:20 AM
IMO Craw/Nate backcourt exemplifies more what you're talking about.

depending on how much LB can get to Q that Crwaford Nate Q perimeter attack could be the most explosive perimeter trio we got.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Elite
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10/22/2005  12:09 PM
OK someone explain this PLEASE:

How can u justify calling steph a bad passer/playmaker when he avg 8+ assist every year ... Does assists not necisarily mean he's getting others involved???? Cuz it sure seems that is the actual meaning of the ****in word.... Or wait... Maybe certain kinds of assists are more important than others and steph only passes unimportant assists right??? This is assinine... If someone avg 10+ reb for a career it like sayin he not a good rebounder... Stephon is a good muh ****in pg playmaker paasser all that **** gimmy a good argument that negates his assists seriously
nyk4ever
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10/22/2005  12:16 PM
Posted by Elite:

OK someone explain this PLEASE:

How can u justify calling steph a bad passer/playmaker when he avg 8+ assist every year ... Does assists not necisarily mean he's getting others involved???? Cuz it sure seems that is the actual meaning of the ****in word.... Or wait... Maybe certain kinds of assists are more important than others and steph only passes unimportant assists right??? This is assinine... If someone avg 10+ reb for a career it like sayin he not a good rebounder... Stephon is a good muh ****in pg playmaker paasser all that **** gimmy a good argument that negates his assists seriously


I feel that way too Elite. I guess Stephon only makes the "easy" assists to "pad" his numbers becuase he knows its an assist and a great way to get an assist. It just doesn't make sense to me.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
McK1
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10/22/2005  12:59 PM
KT averaged 10 rebs last year. Do you consider him Ben Wallace on the boards?

Stats don't tell the whole story.

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
nyk4ever
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10/22/2005  1:10 PM
Posted by McK1:

KT averaged 10 rebs last year. Do you consider him Ben Wallace on the boards?

Stats don't tell the whole story.


No I don't consider him Ben Wallace becuase Ben Wallace is the best rebounder in the NBA. When you watch Kurt Thomas you can see that he uses good technique and has a mean-streak which enables him to get alot of rebounds. Kurt is a good rebounder, especially for someone whose 6'9 getting those 10 rebounds a game over opposing centers who most of the time have 2-4 inches on him.
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Killa4luv
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10/22/2005  1:29 PM
This Steph vs. Craw is a stupid argument.

Steph is a better player in every aspect of the game except shooting, and playing the passing lanes.

I want them both to excel in LB's system.

We need Steph on offense, because he is our best slasher and finishes extremely well, although he didn't finish so well last night.

We need Craw to take guys off of the dribble, get easy mid-range shots, spot up jumpers, and solid passing.
STEPHON IS NOT A SG... JAMAL IS NOT A PG

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