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The money do talk........and will our concious haunt us?
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franco12
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10/4/2005  11:27 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

I think the truth is that none of us really no what is going on with Curry's heart or the situation. We are going by what we read in the papers and they don't know either. I don't think Curry would play around with his life. I think he just wanted out of Chicago. I'm sure he's taking every precaution. The papers are entertainment and are meant to get you to read. The truth is non of us have any clue about what is going on.


I hope so and I think its believable given that Skiles can be an SOB
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JUNKMEIN
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10/4/2005  11:48 AM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by JUNKMEIN:



Yes you are generalizing about atheletes. You have no evidence of this man being a child. You don't know what this man does in his private life. The only thing you know is that he's tall, black and can dunk a basketball at a high percentage rate (where have we heard this before).

In fact it was a very adult and mature decision to stand by his position of not submitting to the Bulls bogus demands of taking that DNA test.



[Edited by - Junkmein on 10-04-2005 11:16 AM]

As for the DNA test, I'm not sure it was a bogus request. Curry was unable to finish the season or help in the play offs because of his heart. One of the many experts suggested that a DNA test could rule out potential death. If I had been the Bulls GM, given what I understand to be the facts, I would have asked for the same thing.

In reference to the extraneous stuff i'll simply say let's not call the guy a "child" or "dumb" based on any kind of generalizations or lack thereof supportng facts....and leave it at that.

On the above quote...well Geez dude, was there WMD or not.

No one can ever convince me that the Bulls weren't trying to lowball this fella. They got bit square on the crack of the arse as a result and that's good for'em. Isiah might get bit too because that's the chance you take. There's one group however that will come out on top in this no matter what (and they're what this is all about)...Curry's great great great grandchildren. Of that there is no doubt.


Nalod
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10/4/2005  11:49 AM
I think in a lot of ways any pro player out of highschool has some interesting maturity issues. In some areas they are wise beyond the years, in others, very immature.

These guys at 18 make a ton of money and have many hanger-ons feeding the ego. One may even the question of having kids so early when not even married, nor even fully mature yourself. His great talent to this higher level of living is his abilty to play ball. He has many god given gifts and obviously worked hard at it, so some discipline is shown, but in terms of his mind being fully develeloped, most experts say that happens by 25 years old. In terms of being able to over come many emotional and intellectual obsticles in life, at 23 I doubt one could say he is mature, even if he is a mature 23 old.

We don't know much about him except he has been told in the past to stop living the hip-hop lifestyle and live the life of a PROFESSIONAL athlete which I would interpret to look out for you money and look out for your body and take care of your pro skills! I have read he has not eaten well and has had money problems. Being able to procreate does not make you a father nor mature. Myself, Having had a father, then not, I can very much say I understand the power of fatherhood on a child and have refrained from my partying ways to make sure I am there mentally and physically at any time, any place because unexpected sh!t happens. Also, the best moments in family life also are unexpected. First steps, conversation, A hug, etc.

I think the bulls might have generally been concerned for his health. 400k for life is nice. He could afford a nice life style, go to college, start a business, etc.

There might have been a small risk attached to all of this and he used the DNA as leverage to get out, get some nice money, and move on. Who knows.

And if he does drop dead in MSG, will the knicks be looked at as greedy corp. evil and would that have a long term effect on sponserships, attendence, and marketablity?

I explained this deal to my wife who does not follow it and she shook her head and thought its all just getting out of hand! She thinks eddie might be star struck and willing to bet his life, and the Knicks might be too anxious. She think the Bulls might not have the right to demand a DNA test, but thought the 400k per year for life was a hell of a gesture if they did not let him on their floor.

diderotn
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10/4/2005  11:52 AM
It is the best thing that could have ever happened for Curry, because being at home (Chicago) really slowed his growth as an individual.
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franco12
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10/4/2005  11:55 AM
Hey- as far as the $400k, it might have been an unenforcable gesture like what Cleveland tried with Boozer.

And, yes, to some extent, the Bulls were trying to low ball Curry- but as far as they could know, he is damaged goods. You might call their low balling responsible salary management, something some of us here have asked our our Knicks...
Nalod
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10/4/2005  12:01 PM
CNBC just did a thing outlining the Bulls request is not allowed in 40 states and possilbe will be a national rule.

SOme good points pro and con were made. It was a quick report but this thing is not over.

Interesting enough, the trade pending a battery of tests today in Manhatten.

Send him to the Nets Doc? LOL!
jazz74
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10/4/2005  12:22 PM


Hey- I am all for hoping this guy is fine healthwise. But didn't we learn from McDyess in taking on damaged goods?
[/quote]

here is the difference between the mcdyess deal and this one: we gave up players we can live with. we did not trade the farm. with mcdyess we basically gave up camby and nene ( or amare stoudamire if you look at it from a different perspective but i will not go there)when two years ago we were crying over. do you think anybody will be crying over tim thomas or sweetney next year no matter what happens? we would have if lee was part of the deal.

tkf
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10/4/2005  1:14 PM
Posted by JUNKMEIN:
Posted by Nalod:

Eddie is now married and has two kids. He is a still a child in many ways at the age of 23, and he is a father of two at the same time.

Okay now. Let me see if I can't put this in perspective. Over the last 2 years i've spent some time surfing over on the Bulls Realgm board mainly checking up on the status and availability of Jamal Crawford and Eddy Curry.

However I must comment on the quote above. I have discussed in the past how posters over there talk about Eddy Curry as if he's a "Child" and a "Dummy" and how imo they don't deserve him. Now the first thing I up and read this morning.....he's being referred to in the same way here with us. The internet is interesting in that it gives people the opportunity to vent their frustrations (i'm at the front of the line). Speaking for myself I can only say that no one can provide any proof beyond their own preconceived notions that Eddy Curry is a "Child". Pull out one example of it...and please don't say he doesn't get rebounds as an example

Infact I think it gives a peak into our own psyche when we make unfounded statements like that....hey, i'm at the top of the list. So please let's refrain from calling this guy a "Child" or "Dumb" or worse. At 22 years old with two kids I think he qualifys quite surely as an adult.....Paxson found that out the hard way (and please, no bizness about his handlers )

Thought i'd add...."Moral Lines"......Uhh, as far as who's concerned. Don't tell me no nonsense about them watching out for Curry's health. It doesn't hold water at all. Bottom line is they were using it as a way to lowball him on his contract and it bit them square on the Arse...and there's no doubt that's a fact. If he falls out on the court they're gonna give Isiah the business. However, Curry is an "Adult" capable of making sound decisions for himself and his family. At 40 i'd make the same decision he's made if it would mean financial security for my great great grand kids....i'd lay off the pork too



[Edited by - Junkmein on 10-04-2005 10:53 AM]

excellent post. Along the moral lines, I hope the knicks are not putting the franchise ahead of curry's health. What bothers me is that the bulls were going to low ball curry and he lost trust. They offered him a low ball deal, and when he turned that down, they then came with teh DNA test... wow... Really don't let 400k for 50 years seem like that was such a generous offer, really it may be for the average working "joe" but for a guy who could over the course of his career earn close to 200 mil, it is chump change... I mean what will 400k be worth 20 years from now, or 30? forget talking about the value of 400k over 50 years!!! that is just paxon trying to cover his bases... or his arse...

Curry although young at 22 years is an adult, he is making a decision that he feels is best for he and his family, I just hope that he and the knicks do their due dilligence and make sure this kid will not die on the court, to me that is most important... In the end it came down to money and trust. the bulls didn't want to up the money, the knicks did, and curry didn't trust the bulls anylonger....

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Nalod
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10/4/2005  1:14 PM
Sure, from a basketball aspect, this is a now brainer.

But the Bulls requested DNA testing, which likley crossed the line (invasion of privacy), and Eddies lawyer used it as leverage to make a bad situation into a worse one for the Bulls.

The Bulls errored in my view by drawing the line at either take the test or sit. Bulls lose if Curry is allster.

Knicks don't lose if Curry can't go. A 6th pick or lower in next years draft would not likely yield a franchise player (sic: Amare), and Sweets is likely not a franchise talent either (be funny if sweets turned into "Brand"!), but the question is does a franchise have an obligation to protect the employee?

Any Lawyers out there?
eViL
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10/4/2005  3:18 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Sure, from a basketball aspect, this is a now brainer.

But the Bulls requested DNA testing, which likley crossed the line (invasion of privacy), and Eddies lawyer used it as leverage to make a bad situation into a worse one for the Bulls.

The Bulls errored in my view by drawing the line at either take the test or sit. Bulls lose if Curry is allster.

Knicks don't lose if Curry can't go. A 6th pick or lower in next years draft would not likely yield a franchise player (sic: Amare), and Sweets is likely not a franchise talent either (be funny if sweets turned into "Brand"!), but the question is does a franchise have an obligation to protect the employee?

Any Lawyers out there?

I'm not a lawyer. Just a first year law student - which is why I haven't been around here much lately...

The "take the test, we'll pay you if you fail" deal that Chicago offered could be a binding contract. However, I don't know how Illinois courts have ruled on these types of issues. It would be important to look into that. So as far as the legality of said deal, I don't know - it depends from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Also, there are a lot of terms of this alleged contract that we don't have in front of us. Say they do the test, Curry waives his right to privacy, he passes the test for the heart condition, but Chicago sees something else they don't like - then what? Are they obligated to sign him since he didn't fail the test for the condition they were looking for? Are they obligated to pay him $400K for 50 years if they decide not to sign him? It's not as simple an issue as presented by Paxson in the papers. I'm sure that Curry's lawyer was all over it.

I don't think that teams in general are obligated to protect their players from potentially life threatening conditions that a player might or might not have. It would create an unfair burden on every team out there to seek out every possible method of verifying a player's health. Going beyond the current standard of physicals and medical tests might be a bit much. If this turns into a recurring issue then maybe you'll see the standard elevated to include DNA tests in rare circumstances.

In this case we're dealing with a player who might be predisposed to having a certain life-threatening condition which makes it a tougher call. Ultimately, I think the responsibility should fall on the player. However, a team like Chicago is trying to portray itself as protecting Curry, the person, in reality - they are protecting their business. Curry needs to protect himself and his family by getting the test done. I have a feeling that he has already done so.
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BasketballJones
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10/4/2005  3:23 PM
I don't see a moral problem here. Curry is an athlete who wants to take his chances and play basketball, not retire at 23 and live to be a bitter old man.
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franco12
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10/4/2005  3:24 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Sure, from a basketball aspect, this is a now brainer.

But the Bulls requested DNA testing, which likley crossed the line (invasion of privacy), and Eddies lawyer used it as leverage to make a bad situation into a worse one for the Bulls.

The Bulls errored in my view by drawing the line at either take the test or sit. Bulls lose if Curry is allster.

Knicks don't lose if Curry can't go. A 6th pick or lower in next years draft would not likely yield a franchise player (sic: Amare), and Sweets is likely not a franchise talent either (be funny if sweets turned into "Brand"!), but the question is does a franchise have an obligation to protect the employee?

Any Lawyers out there?


Its one thing for the law to saw employers can't request a DNA test to see if the employee is going to develop diseases that will raise their premiums, and its another for an NBA team to request of an exceptional athlete to undergo a DNA test to help determine if that player might day as the result of a known condition. This isn't an NBA team asking rookies to undergo a DNA test to determine if they might be prone to arthritis in the knees or some such condition.

Curry missed games because of an irregular heart beat- they subsequently found his heart is enlarged and one expert suggested this could be indicative of a potentially fatal condition.

If I'm Curry, I go take the test- possibly secretely and make a move based on those results.
franco12
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10/4/2005  3:26 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

I don't see a moral problem here. Curry is an athlete who wants to take his chances and play basketball, not retire at 23 and live to be a bitter old man.


the moral problem is that Isiah has possibly signed a death warrent on Curry by offering him this deal- though I suppose Paxon is guilty too because he accepted.
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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10/4/2005  3:32 PM
Posted by franco12:

If I'm Curry, I go take the test- possibly secretely and make a move based on those results.

For all we know, that's exactly what Curry did.


Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
BasketballJones
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10/4/2005  3:45 PM
the moral problem is that Isiah has possibly signed a death warrent on Curry by offering him this deal- though I suppose Paxon is guilty too because he accepted.

I think its Curry's life, and his decision. I don't blame him for not wanting to take the test, and possibly ending his career. What does the test show? Does it say "This guy will drop dead on the basketball court" or does it just mean he's at higher risk?
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tkf
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10/4/2005  4:13 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:
Posted by franco12:

If I'm Curry, I go take the test- possibly secretely and make a move based on those results.

For all we know, that's exactly what Curry did.


I hope he did, I mean it would make sense, heck I would do it right away if I were him, and If I were tired of the bulls mangagment, I wouldn't tell them if I were OK, and force a trade as he just did..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
franco12
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10/4/2005  5:43 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
the moral problem is that Isiah has possibly signed a death warrent on Curry by offering him this deal- though I suppose Paxon is guilty too because he accepted.

I think its Curry's life, and his decision. I don't blame him for not wanting to take the test, and possibly ending his career. What does the test show? Does it say "This guy will drop dead on the basketball court" or does it just mean he's at higher risk?

If I understand the test, it would have been a genetic marker for hypothermic cardiomyopathy which could be fatal. Now just having the marker, if I understand it, doesn't mean he has it, just that he might.


franco12
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10/4/2005  5:46 PM
here is a good article

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/chris_mannix/10/04/curry.knicks/
rvhoss
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10/4/2005  6:17 PM
I'm still suprised we ended up getting Curry as our starting center after that looooong summer.
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Pharzeone
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10/4/2005  8:19 PM
Strangely, NBA tv is currently playing game 4 of the Celtics vs. Hornets 1993 playoffs. I think Lewis collapsed in game 2. Weird watching the game and seeing the Curry trade scroll underneath.

[Edited by - pharzeone on 10-04-2005 8:22 PM]
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The money do talk........and will our concious haunt us?

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