I don't think it does speak volumes about his offensive game, but his rebounding ability instead. EVERYTHING Sweetney does starts with rebounding thus far in his career. Does this translate into a well-rounded PF? Not so far.

I disagree. Rebounding is a solid part of Mike's game as he's proven to have a nose for the ball. In fact EVERYTHING Sweetney does starts with where he recieves the ball. MS is excellent at getting position on the low block in the paint. He's got great hands and can catch tough passes. When he gets the ball there he's scored almost at will against longer players like Curry and Jermaine Oneil. Look at the game logs if the memory escapes you. When he doesnt get the ball there he is a below average jumpshooter who doesnt do much else than crash the boards. Again, this isnt an excuse. Mike proved he could score there. We didnt exploit it enough. Now I ***HOPE*** our guards are able to get MS the ball in those spots where he creates and converts easy buckets for us, and they go to him more than they did last year.

How did this become Sweetney V. JJ?

Its relevent. Your knock on MS is a lack of height, but JJ proves height is vastly overrated (except when your a FA looking for a couple bucks). Since you were just talking from the heart why dont you make a prediction? I thought thats what you did when you said 8/8. Did you edit your post since then?

You threw out 8/8 for JJ in a thread regarding player predictions. Then you said thats what you *HOPE* will happen. So here appears to be the difference. Your hoping to see something thats never happened before from a player thats 30 years old (in November of THIS year. The guy is 30 for the season, geeze). I'm hoping to see more of something from a player thats 23 (22.. he turns 23 in Oct). Its very feasable that Sweetney will never be able to sustain the level of play he showed in those 10 games I posted where he played the most significant minutes. But at least we have seen it, if even for a brief time.

MAybe I'm trying to suggest you should *hope* from something a little more realistic :)

I disagree. Rebounding is a solid part of Mike's game as he's proven to have a nose for the ball. In fact EVERYTHING Sweetney does starts with where he recieves the ball. MS is excellent at getting position on the low block in the paint. He's got great hands and can catch tough passes. When he gets the ball there he's scored almost at will against longer players like Curry and Jermaine Oneil. Look at the game logs if the memory escapes you.

I guess memory does escape me because the way I remember it, when Sweetney got the ball and had to make his own shot in the post, he had a lot of trouble getting his shot off and had to shoot a lot of fallaways and whoop-dee-doo moves. Sometimes he made them. Frequently he got his own rebound then made a putback, which is his strength.

I have looked at the game logs. Please show me the stat where Sweetney eats up people on the block.

We didnt exploit it enough. Now I ***HOPE*** our guards are able to get MS the ball in those spots where he creates and converts easy buckets for us, and they go to him more than they did last year.

I ***HOPE*** they do too.

Its relevent. Your knock on MS is a lack of height,

No, I say lack of height is the cause of his deficiencies. If he did not have those deficiencies, I could care less if he is 5'7".

but JJ proves height is vastly overrated

How? I don't see how JJ's height proves anything either way. A player has to be good regardless of height, but height is an advantage. Height has been one of the main problems with this squad. skill players need some height on the team or they cannot play their game.

Since you were just talking from the heart why dont you make a prediction?

I won't make a 'true' prediction on JJ because I would then have to be looking for those numbers from night to night and I really want better from him than what I would truly have to predict as if I were betting on him. It would ruin it for me. I don't like to bet on my own team/players most of the time.

I thought thats what you did when you said 8/8. Did you edit your post since then?

I haven't edited anything. I answered everything you just asked in my first paragraph:

I voted with my heart and put Frye and James combined. I hope the James we see all season is the same one who was straight smackin' Sacramento. I noticed James has a really interesting dunking technique where he gets just over the rim, but can dunk from long distances because he runs through people. I want to see that every night from him

C'mon, you gotta wait for me to make a 'true' prediction that you disagree with before really go to it!

oohah

Bos 32 minutes 7-12FGs 4-7FTs 10/6/1/2
LAC 31 minutes 4-8FGs 6-6FTs 14/9/2/1
MIL 37 minutes 6-13FGa 2-3FTs 14/11/1/3
UTH 30 minutes 6-7FGs 3-5FTs 15/9/2/6
Bos 28 minutes 5-10FGs 9-10FTs 19/4/0/2
Phi 32 minutes 2-5FGs 6-8FTs 10/9/1/3
LAL 30 minutes 9-15FGs 1-2FTs 19/12/0/4
GSW 28 minutes 9-12FGs 1-2FTs 19/7/1/4
Cha 27 minutes 6-8FGs 2-2FTs 14/7/0/2
Atl 31 minutes 6-8FGs 4-4FTs 16/2/0/6

30.6 minutes 61%FGs 15/7.6/.8/3.3

those are the 10games he got the most time (Again)

Not his best 10 games, just the ones with the most minutes

Posted by fishmike:

well, you can focus on being 2 inches shorter or you can focus on other things. Sweetney's FG% and FTs speak volumes about the difficulty the opposition has dealing with him. He's also got the wingspan of a 7 footer with does count for something.

No, he has the wingspan of a 6'8" to 6'9" player. It's the same size as Ariza's and about average for a PF. It's much smaller than most Cs and 7 footers.

Name Position Height Weight Wingspan
Darko Milicic C 7' 7'5"
Jamal Magloire C 6'9" 7'7"
Chris Mihm C 7'0.75" 265 7'2.5"
Jaron Collins C 6'10.5" 252 7'3"
Mike Sweetney PF 6'7" or 6'8" 255 7'1"
Lonny Baxter PF 6'7.75" 264 7'1.5"
Elton Brand PF 6'8" 260 7'4" or 7'5"
David West PF 6'9" 232 7'4"
Nene (Hilario) PF 6'10.25" 253 7'4.5"
Carlos Boozer PF 6'7.75" to 6'9.5" 258 7'2.25"
Drew Gooden PF 6'10" 227 7'0.5"
Amare Stoudemire PF 6'9" 233 7'1.75"
Brian Scalabrine PF/C 6'10.25" 241 6'9.75"
Chris Wilcox PF 6'9.5" 236 7'1"
Marcus Fizer PF 6'8" 262 7'
Kenyon Martin PF 6'9" 6'11.5"
Stromile Swift PF 6'9.5" 7'2.5"
Chris Bosh PF/C 6'11" 225 7'3.5"
Etan Thomas PF/C 6'10.5" 260 7'2.5"
Mark Madsen PF 6'9" 235 7'0.5"
http://nysportszone.net/index.php?showtopic=1346&st=0

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 09-29-2005 6:10 PM]

Posted by oohah:

thats lame.. disect-a-post in an attempt to discredit someone else's opinion but dont offer your own because your afraid your team might let you down. OoooKaaay

??? When you refer to dissecting are you talking about today's discussion or last week's about Sweetney?

You probably don't understand my reluctance to predict about JJ because you don't live and die with each loss like I do. (C'mon, take the bait.)

Why don't you see the difference between you saying that Sweetney **WILL** be a 18/12/2 player and me saying that I **HOPE** JJ will average 8/8(Approximately.) for one season?

Anyway, I still think that JJ realizing a career season of 8/8 is MUCH MORE REALISTIC than Sweetney at 18/12/2. Especially the 2 blocks, that is amusing.

I can see you are still smarting over last week's Sweetney talk... and have been lying in wait to jump on me once I make a declaration that you can poke holes in... but you have jumped the gun, and THAT IS LAME.

oohah





[Edited by - oohah on 09-29-2005 5:10 PM]

[Edited by - oohah on 09-29-2005 5:11 PM]

I'm not smarting over anything! I said Sweetney's potential has not be realized, that he has skills to but a very productive player in this league. That he's young and the Knicks were wrong not to go him more and for not taking the chance to give him starters minutes in a wasted season. I took the 10 games he played the most and used them to project his potential. I added rebounds because with no KT or Nazr and more floor time I think his totals will balloon. I stated my opinion and stuck too it (still stick to it). I didnt get soft when someone took me to task and said that it was all just *hope*

That discussion could have gone better. I will admit to being a tad emotional. When your as big a Knick fan as I am you get that way. One day you will understand perhaps. I once took 2 weeks pay in cash to the Garden to scalp a single seat to see them play the Pacers in the ECF, but thats a story for another day.

If you think I am smarting thats cool! I am glad to have built up your confidences

You used those to project his potential? Please tell me the formula or method of reasoning that arrived you at the numbers of 18/12/2?

when given minutes he's averaged 15/8 and shot 66%

The extra rebounds come from the departure of KT and the 3 points come from more opportunities. At least thats what I hope

good post franco. I am not much of a fan of Sweetney but he does usually show up when given minutes. I hope he gets in shape soon. That would really help.

when given minutes he's averaged 15/8 and shot 66%
The extra rebounds come from the departure of KT and the 3 points come from more opportunities.

I would say that is a very reasonable amount of improvement to project for a yound hard-working player like Sweetney. I think you should be projecting it from his average rather than his biggest-minute games. (I sure would like to see his 10 best. Do you have them collected. Seriously, I am not trying to give you homework, I would like to see what you have ascertained to be his best 10 games of 04-05.)

At least thats what I hope

I think that is a reasonable hope.

Sweetney was not fully utilized last season- fish is right that he has no problem getting position down low and catching and converting in traffic. What sweetney isn't good at is making the guards throw him the ball & that's not his job anyway- its the coaches.

I still don't remember this "catching and converting in traffic" on the scale you have described. Usually, Sweeteny wasn't even looking for the ball as I recall. I do remember Swetney getting a sh!tload of putbacks though.

Yes, he had foul problems, but there were plenty of people here asking why he just sat out basically the rest of the game if he picked up 2 early fouls.

It is not right to glue a player to the bench after a couple of fouls (Usually.) but Sweetney had foul problems and that wasn't anyone's fault but his. To me his foul problems were his biggest trouble, and may always be.

Everyone thinks he's fat & slow-

Not me.

he is big and could shed some pounds

I don't want him shedding pounds.

did anyone else here actually watch him in the transition game where he would motor up court and establish position before defenses were set?

Yes, I did see that a handful of times. And you are right, our guards should have gotten him the ball. What can we say but our guards were (Are?) selfish?

KT had foul trouble early in his career- he figured out how to play with the refs calling things, calmed down and started to stay in games.

KT just got his fouls under control 2 seasons ago.

Other bad teams would have just started playing sweetney from day one to let him develop- that didn't happen here- Layden had a bunch of overpaid scrums that 'had to play' in front of him.

That is true.

We probably would have a very different sense of sweets if he had played major minutes from day one.

Are you suggesting we would have given up on him already? Interesting.

I have very high expectations for Ariza and Sweetney.

I especially for Ariza.

I think Ariza can be a Darius Miles type without the stupidity.

Ariza has similar athleticism, but after that, totally different games. Ariza is an unselfish player who likes to make things happen, Miles is a player who like to make things happen for himself.

Sweetney a Spoon (in his prime) and Brand mix.

From your mouth to God's ears then to Sweetney's game, I **hope**.

oohah

see? You have come over to my side of the fishtank. I think we must have gotten to caught up in percieved tone of voice so to speak and got too busy argueing.

Miles was good in LA and in Cle. He's a good defender and ball handler. He also plays hard. I think the environment in Port was bad and things spiraled out of control, and he's got a lot of learning to do.

ahhh.. fair enough. Where's Lavar these days? He had 2 great games and we havent seen him since

ahhh.. fair enough. Where's Lavar these days? He had 2 great games and we havent seen him since

Last I saw he was doing work in the NBDl playing against Erick Barkley. I think he should be able to play in the NBA, he just needs to refine his skills.

oohah