I love Sweets and his game. I'm in the minority but I 100% believe he wasnt utilized properly and can be a 18/12/2 55% type player in this league.

15/12/2 ?!?!?! Are the 2 blocked shots? because if he averages 2 blocked shots he would be amongst the best shot blockers in the game! And that I would like to see...but I see him averaging 2 in ANY OTHER STAT before blocked shots.

sweetney last year could've been 15/10
but the key phrase was "he wasn't utilized properly"
that's why if they move him in a deal for curry, i may have to assassinate isiah at the next q&a.

Was he not utilized properly, or is it that he could not earn enough minutes to maximize his game? I don't know about how he will be "utilized", but he should get the minutes this year because they have cleared the way for him. If he can't get consistent playing time this year, I can't see how it is anybody's fault but Sweetney's.

What about Curry not being "used properly"?
DJ, honestly, I've seen Sweets up close and personal. He really is 6'6". He also has nice post moves, but no hops and since all the PFs are so much taller than him, he looks like he'll have the most blocked shot in the NBA. Also, seriously... he looks like he's going to have weatherspoon-esque rolls of fat in the back of his neck

not good.

Sweets is good, can be used better, but greatly overrated by this board.

He measured taller, but I am with you and your assessment. Sweetney has girth and game, but honestly he probably is not as good an athlete as Spoon is RIGHT NOW. Or did everyone forget how Spoon crammed it in Yao's face twice a couple of years ago? Sweetney has never shown that ability to me.

I don't see star material in Sweetney. He can be a solid player with identifiable and exploitable weaknesses.

curry was thrown out there from the get go. who is he fighting for the ball with? chandler? othella?
sweets was on IR his first season till midway through.
last year, he was behind kurt and nazr. the offense revolved around the guards and didn't go inside out until late in herb's tenure. sweetney would get post position almost always down the court yet most of the time, the ball wouldn't go to him. he would get doubled teamed at times. he got 19 mins a night, yet still was #2 on the team in FTA's. i could care less if he has a pack of hot dogs on his neck, when he gets the ball, good things happen. when he's guarding guys 20 feet from the basket, he gets in foul trouble. am i overrating him? possibly, but there's nothing i have seen from him to change my mind that the offense can go inside out through him and he can easily drop 15/10 if given the touches.

I could care less how he looks either. Easily drop 15/10? It is possible, but I think easily is an exageration.

So basically he is Larry Johnson when he was with us without the ripped physique...Now if he can only be the leader LJ was...

LJ was a much more skilled player than Sweetney. LJ was also a Barkley-esque athlete. When he was with us he had lost most of his athletic ability, but he was still a better athlete than Sweetny. LJ was a true #1 pick and a star from the moment he stepped on an NBA floor. Do you see Sweetney remaking his game the way LJ did with the Knicks? Do you see Sweetney hitting 3 insane 3 pointers (Including a 4 pointer.) in one game to beat the pacers? Ever?

Are you all serious? I like Sweetney also, but will he ever be the player that we all want him to be? He is not a demanding type of guy. At his hight, if he doesn't demand the ball, he will never have a chance to be an impact player. Barkley was about the same size as Sweetney, but he was very voccal on and off the court, he commanded recognition. Sweet doesn't have that type of personality...

That is not a true comparison. It really has nothing to do with demanding, Barkley was just better. Barkley was 2 times as skilled than Sweetney and 3 times the athlete. Turn on NBA channel and try to catch "Sir Charles", get ready for jaw dropping highlights!

Barkley highlights I have seen with my own eyes: Barkley dunking on Shaq. Barkley blocking a Shaq dunk. Barkley getting a rebound underneath with Ewing and Oakley, rising up and dunking on the vertical. Barkley breaking down David robinson and J'ing him in the face from 18' feet out and winning a playoff series. Lots more....

For the guy who said Sweets is only 6'6", he's actually 6'7.75" in his barefeet, so technically he's really 6'8" in sneakers. He does have a 7'1" Wingspan and an 8'11.5" standing reach. He plays taller than he is due to this, he has the arms of a 6'10" guy..

Whatever Sweetney's height is listed as or really is, 2 things are obvious: He is usually shorter than the power forward he is going against, and he has trouble getting his shot off when he has to create his own shot in the post. And that is playing against the other teams bench. Maybe Sweeetney has "low shoulders".

IF he loses some weitght and gains some more strength, it won't matter what height he is, cuz he'll be a monster.

Losing weight is not the answer. If he loses weight he will be short and light. Losing weight makes sweetney into a small forward. He needs to do an Anthony Mason and become a monster of strength.

Just remember how tough Barkley was and he was even shorter than Sweets.

I am a Barkley fan. I have watched Barkley play his whole career, college and pro, and Mike Sweetney Sir, is no Charles Barkley.

how has Mike been in a position to demand anything?

Sweetney cannot demand anything until he proves he is worthy.

His rookie year he was on IR behind 5 veteran PFs.

That was a bad move, but obviously he wasn't 'demanding' a spot with his practice play. But he was taken off IR when IT got there.

His second year he found himself in the starting rotation.

Mainly due to injuries to other players.

He was an established 3 year CBB player with a clearly defined skill set. Anytime he was given a chance to use that skill set he suceeded.

I'd say he was good 55-60% percent of the time. Other times he was not very impressive.

In GTown, Sweetney was NEVER asked to out and set high screens or chase perimeter players around on help defense. So when he struggles with these things its a knock on him? I dont get it.

Yes, it is a knock. College ball is not the NBA. You have to do more and do it better to succeed in the NBA. Also, I think the amount of high-screening and chasing at the perimeter is not that significant to his performance evaluation to this point.

He's improved each year, and I once posted in every game he played over 30 minutes in this year he produced big time and was NOT in the constant foul trouble some make him out to be.

I think we talked about this before. I postulate that he got the minutes because he was staying out of foul trouble. "More minutes = less fouls" just doesn't make sense.

How can you judge his personality based on what you have seen with the Knicks? It makes no sense. He's had 3 head coaches in 2 years.

That is a valid point, but I think he still would have gotten the time and everything that goes with it if he was busting everybody's ass in practice (and in games). This year will be the teller for me.

Fish! you and I were amongst the few that wanted Sweet to be a starter, because we realized how valuable he was when he was on the court. However, I still don't know whether or not Sweet has what it takes to be a demanding player in the league. Okafor was a rookie, but he called for the ball when he was in the post. I just for once want to see Sweet establishing himself downlow and pretty much call for the ball instead of chasing mis-shots by others who are not even as accurate as him...

Okafor is star material. It is his game, ability and production that demands the ball, not just his voice. If you haven't shown the game, what can you demand?

its apples and oranges. Okafor was a rookie on a team with nothing but rookies. Who else was going to get the ball? Sweetney had Spoon, KT, KVH, Harrington, Mutumbo as well as veteran perimeter scorers. This has nothing to do with personality. Trust me, if Sweetney was on that Cha team he would be getting 35 minutes a game and doing his own share of demanding

Sweetney might get more time in Charlotte, but Okafor would be getting as much or more time in NYC as he did in his rookie year with Charlotte. Okafor would be our center of the future, and it would be true. Nobody here would be talking about Sweetney if he played on any other team. We would probably diss him if we did, we would not be making excuses for his lack of production. But we have an investment in him so we NEED for him to be better than what we have seen.

This is why I think Sweets has to start this year no matter what. I'm sick of watching Sweetney call for the ball only for Crawford or Steph to shoot a 3 from 25 feet out. Plus, with Jerome at center for mostly defensive purposes, we really need to start Sweets at PF and make him a main option.

We need Sweetney to play and be featured much more, he needs to earn the starting spot, I am sick of conceding spots to guys.

Yes, if he loses weight n gains muscle, he'll be better off.

Why lose weight? maybe 10 pounds at the most. he needs the girth and mass.

No, not even close, will he be anywhere near the type of player Barkley was. Forget about size and height, HORRIBLE example.

Agreed.

why does every guy have to be a star or bust? What wrong with drafting usefull players or core players that are important parts of your team. I have no doubt that Sweetney could give you 15/10/2 and shoot 55% right now if handed the minutes. There will be nights where he has problems, and other nights where he totally abuses who guards him in the post.

Good point, not everybody needs to be a star, but the Knicks NEED A STAR. That is why we are always talking about Sweetney because he is young and therefore he can improve greatly. He certainly has the brains and work ethic. Being a star might not be in his future at the NBA level. Not in my opinion. I hope I am wrong though!

oohah

Posted by fishmike:

why does every guy have to be a star or bust? What wrong with drafting usefull players or core players that are important parts of your team. I have no doubt that Sweetney could give you 15/10/2 and shoot 55%

That's pretty impressive since 15/11 can get you the league MVP!

As can be seen from my prior posts I like Sweets. he is not Barkley or LJ-he is not the athlete they were nor can he do the things they did- he is Sweetney. He is taller and longer than either, he isn't as fast but can carry more weight and can be a bigger defensive force in the middle. He has the same type of ability to dominate the post and come away with a bucket, a foul or both. He will probaby never be the offensive threat that either was but can probably dominate the boards better than they. We all have a tendency to favor the flashy athlete or the offensive machine and Sweets will never be either. Bill Russell was clearly a top 10 all time player but many of you would have been taking shots at him because he couldn't hit an open 12 footer.

Let's give Sweets credit for what he can do, can contribute and accept the limitations.

[Edited by - TheSage on 09-21-2005 07:57 AM]

Sage - like your post and agree w/you re: Sweets.

2 little nitpicks tho - 1. Charles Barkley was one of the greatest rebounders in the history of the game. I don't think Sweets is ever going to average 15 rpg for a season or 12 rpg for his career like Barkley did.

2. Before LJ hurt his back he was a monster rebounder - 11 per game. I agree with you though that Sweets will be a better boarder than LJ was by the time he got on the Knicks.

With Larry on board, we will have an open and fair challenge at all positions. May the best player win.

his best games, only the ones he logged the most minutes.

The problem is that those two issues are so highly correlated because players on average play more minutes when they play well and fewer when they play poorly. (Of course you can find a very rare exception.) I bet that almost any 8/5 20 mpg player will look like a 15/7 player if you take the ten games where he got the most minutes.

not really... look at Mike's game log. You can see lots of games where he put up very good numbers and just didnt play much after that. Hell, I remember watching a lot of games where MS had big 3rd qtrs only to sit out the 4th for Mo T and Malik Rose.

I disagree. Yes, Sweetney did get jobbed on minutes a few times when he was playing well, most notably the game where he didn't miss a shot in the first half. But "lots of games"?

I don't remember "lots" of games where Sweetney was yanked while he was tearing it up.

Sweetney simply did not win the minutes.

Naturally, the games where Sweetney would log more minutes are his better games, that is the way it works with bench players, they play more(Sometimes) when they play well. Starters are much more likely to log a bad game with extended playing time.

The Jury is still out on Sweetney. If he was going to be a star he probably would have been starting for the past two years. Sweetney should get enough minutes this year for us to see what he is.

I think if LB gives everyone an equal chance to win the starting PF spot Sweetney COULD be beat out by Rose or Taylor.

I think Sweetney could become an pretty good offensive player if he develops his shot like Oakley/Thomas, and works on his handle like Mason. Sweetney is really not a bad shooter to begin with and he has good hands.

oohah

I guess Ariza didnt earn the minutes either.

I really don't think that Ariza is a good comparison to Sweetney. Ariza was a mid second round pick with one year of college, Sweetney was a lottery pick with 3 years of college ball.

By any reasonable estimatation, Ariza exceeded expectations by a huge margin as a ROOKIE. Before the season ever started he took Shandon Anderson's spot. He made other teams notice him and really put a body on him. He probably would have gotten a lot more time if not for the TT quagmire. Were there times that Ariza did not play when we all thought he should? Sure, but it was also plain to see that once other teams started noticing him, they exposed his inexperience and lack of development to a certain degree.

Back to Sweetney, he hasn't done in his two years what Ariza did in a couple of months: Force the team to play him. Has Sweetney exceeded expectation? I don't think so. Has he 'kicked' the players in front of him out of the way like Ariza? Definitely not. Who looks more likely to become a star? Ariza. Mind you Ariza would be a SOPHOMORE in college right now.

We can make all kinds of excuses for Sweetney by blaming the coaching staff, but Ariza played for the same staff. If Sweetney had 'wowed' like Ariza did he woulda done been a starter.

I would be more upset this year if Ariza doesn't get minutes. Sweetney will get his chance this year.

Its much more productive to run out guys like Tim Thomas, Malik Rose and Mo Taylor night after night then take a good long look at players like Ariza and Sweetney.

I am not sure where you are going with this comment. Did I suggest anything like that? I don't think so.

oohah

Mind you Ariza would be a SOPHOMORE in college right now.

Correction, Ariza would be a junior.

oohah