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OT: Rappers stepping up.
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joec32033
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9/10/2005  10:54 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

Great Post thelonious. And as a side note, to whoever said it, the population left in New Orleans was overwhelmingly black, probably higher than 90%. To say there were some black people and some white people is so misleading its a lie.

The government giving orders to shoot 'looters' first off is ridiculous. They should have been giving orders to feed, clother, and heal people. Looting should have been last on the last. How important relative to the death and sickness that is going on there, is some idiots stealing a Tv or some sneakers?

Second, the NYTimes has even documented racist coverage in the media that refers to white people as finding food, and black people as looters. In other words, the same racist line of thought that made some white writer not think white people were looters, is the same racist line of thought they we are presuming will be applied when the armed forces starts deciding who is and who isn't a looter.


Unless new Orleans is 100% black he is still hurting some white people which is my point.
And for all of you who are so upset with Kanye, what he did was say something you guys didn't like. Big freaking deal. Why don't you spend some time being mad at how bush's lack of leadership and responsiveness costed thousands of lives? Or how his shady hiring practices has someone like Mr. Brown,(the former head of FEMA) costed thousands of lives as well? If you wanna be mad about something, be mad about that which is meaningful and has an impact on people's lives and deaths, instead of being mad at the words of an rapper who has a hot album!!

The first line in this paragraph is what I want to focus on. If that is the way you feel, then use the other side of this two way street. Bush dealt with this in a way you didn't like. Big freakin deal.


Dood...seriously...just because Kanye is a black rapper trying to defend black people don't make him out to be a saint. Your post it's ok to disagree with the way Bush handled the situation, but to look the other way if you don't like what Kanye said. Am I the only one that sees a hell of a flaw in that thinking?
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TheloniusMonk
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9/10/2005  11:17 PM
it's as simple as this joec: Kanye West is not the president. He doesn't have the entire free world at his helm. What Kanye says or does is an ARTIST'S VIEW. What Bush does should be waaaaaayyyyyyyyyy more calculated because he is the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

That's like me comparing Nine Inch Nails to congress.

A citizen has a right to his or her opinion. They alsi have the right to express it openly. In Kanye's case, his words represent how millions of black people feel. I went to a benefit concert the other night at the Knitting Factor and Kanye West was a hero. Whenever his name was said the people would shout out in support. And the funny thing is the place was only about 50% black. White people joined in as well.

But to hold a VIEW of a citizen next to the OPERATIONS OF WHITE HOUSE? There's the flawed thinking right there.

Also, to say 'Bush dealt with this in his in a way you didn't like...big deal'. That's a ridiculous statement. We're talking life and death with the way Bush 'dealt with this'. Ask even his republican buddies who came down on him. So to say big deal in a situation where the president of the most powerful nation in the world is being negligent and people are suffering and dying from 8 to 80 is the most ridiculous statement that has been made here thus far.
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joec32033
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9/11/2005  12:26 AM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

it's as simple as this joec: Kanye West is not the president. He doesn't have the entire free world at his helm. What Kanye says or does is an ARTIST'S VIEW. What Bush does should be waaaaaayyyyyyyyyy more calculated because he is the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

That's like me comparing Nine Inch Nails to congress.

A citizen has a right to his or her opinion. They alsi have the right to express it openly. In Kanye's case, his words represent how millions of black people feel. I went to a benefit concert the other night at the Knitting Factor and Kanye West was a hero. Whenever his name was said the people would shout out in support. And the funny thing is the place was only about 50% black. White people joined in as well.

But to hold a VIEW of a citizen next to the OPERATIONS OF WHITE HOUSE? There's the flawed thinking right there.

Also, to say 'Bush dealt with this in his in a way you didn't like...big deal'. That's a ridiculous statement. We're talking life and death with the way Bush 'dealt with this'. Ask even his republican buddies who came down on him. So to say big deal in a situation where the president of the most powerful nation in the world is being negligent and people are suffering and dying from 8 to 80 is the most ridiculous statement that has been made here thus far.

Kanye does have a right to free speech as I have a right to be disgusted with his hypocritical attitude...trust me, I do not like defending Bush anymore than you would, and as I have said before, the way this was dealt with, I can not have an opinion on because I do not know all the facts.

I CAN have an opinion on Kanye's statements, which in my mind were ludicrious. The fact is it could be true. I will not go and say there is no way it didn't happen that way. But there was a better way to handle this type of situation and I do not approve of Kanye's methods. Simple as that.

Now regarding my statement, of "Bush dealt with this in his in a way you didn't like...big deal", you have taken it out of context. I equated it to what Killa said...
And for all of you who are so upset with Kanye, what he did was say something you guys didn't like. Big freaking deal.
. It is not my opinion it is the flip side to a stement in an argument that has been debated for a while now.

Call me a pessimist, call me theorist, call me whatever you want, but as I said before, Kanye does not and will not get a free pass from me because he is supposedly ( I say this because it was your generalization, not mine) voicing the opinions of a whole race. I am sorry but too many ENTERTAINERS use their exposure to voice their own view on politics and I am honestly tired of it. Especially VERY incidiary comments like Kanye West made. Comments like his, coming from a star of his magnitude can cause Huge civil problems, whatever they may be.

I myself tend to form my opinions, and in this day and age it seems that ANY comment that is bashing any type of civil institution such as the president, or Congress, or whoever is ALWAYS accepted with open arms if for no other reason they are anti-establishment.

All this talk of anti-black sentiment, and no mention that the WHITE director of FEMA was fired over his crappy response.

Like I said, I am not a Bush supporter, I am arguing over the principle of the whole issue. To lay the blame flatly on Bush and to TOTALLY ignore the local and state governments (mayor of NO Ray Nagin is black...where is his blame for not acting fast enough?) and their ineptitudes in this matter should not be overlooked.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 09-11-2005 12:27 AM]
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tkf
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9/11/2005  12:32 AM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

it's as simple as this joec: Kanye West is not the president. He doesn't have the entire free world at his helm. What Kanye says or does is an ARTIST'S VIEW. What Bush does should be waaaaaayyyyyyyyyy more calculated because he is the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

That's like me comparing Nine Inch Nails to congress.

A citizen has a right to his or her opinion. They alsi have the right to express it openly. In Kanye's case, his words represent how millions of black people feel. I went to a benefit concert the other night at the Knitting Factor and Kanye West was a hero. Whenever his name was said the people would shout out in support. And the funny thing is the place was only about 50% black. White people joined in as well.

But to hold a VIEW of a citizen next to the OPERATIONS OF WHITE HOUSE? There's the flawed thinking right there.

Also, to say 'Bush dealt with this in his in a way you didn't like...big deal'. That's a ridiculous statement. We're talking life and death with the way Bush 'dealt with this'. Ask even his republican buddies who came down on him. So to say big deal in a situation where the president of the most powerful nation in the world is being negligent and people are suffering and dying from 8 to 80 is the most ridiculous statement that has been made here thus far.

kanye is a citizen, but he is not JUST a citizen, he is a citizen who has the forum and the celebrity reach a lot of people. Do you think you or I or anyone on this forum has the ability to reach and influence millions of americans? Well we don't , but kayne does, and no one is holding him in the same light as the president but it is a hell of a lot more influential than the local pastor at a church with 50 followers or even you and I at our best... The key is that he was irresponsible, and he lied, he lied about the govt telling the troops to shoot and kill black people, and lies hurt, I mean you guys hold the president accountable for lying or so called lying, why shouldn't kayne? I mean should only the president's feet be held to the fire..

again we are not talking about bush, if kayne is wrong then bush being wrong does not make what kayne did right? for that matter lets go down the list of every president and congressman, and crooked judge, and talk about how they hurt others by their lies and deciet, so we can minimalize kayne's irresponsibleness even more....

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
joec32033
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9/11/2005  12:55 AM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

it's as simple as this joec: Kanye West is not the president. He doesn't have the entire free world at his helm. What Kanye says or does is an ARTIST'S VIEW. What Bush does should be waaaaaayyyyyyyyyy more calculated because he is the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

That's like me comparing Nine Inch Nails to congress.

A citizen has a right to his or her opinion. They alsi have the right to express it openly. In Kanye's case, his words represent how millions of black people feel. I went to a benefit concert the other night at the Knitting Factor and Kanye West was a hero. Whenever his name was said the people would shout out in support. And the funny thing is the place was only about 50% black. White people joined in as well.

But to hold a VIEW of a citizen next to the OPERATIONS OF WHITE HOUSE? There's the flawed thinking right there.

Also, to say 'Bush dealt with this in his in a way you didn't like...big deal'. That's a ridiculous statement. We're talking life and death with the way Bush 'dealt with this'. Ask even his republican buddies who came down on him. So to say big deal in a situation where the president of the most powerful nation in the world is being negligent and people are suffering and dying from 8 to 80 is the most ridiculous statement that has been made here thus far.

kanye is a citizen, but he is not JUST a citizen, he is a citizen who has the forum and the celebrity reach a lot of people. Do you think you or I or anyone on this forum has the ability to reach and influence millions of americans? Well we don't , but kayne does, and no one is holding him in the same light as the president but it is a hell of a lot more influential than the local pastor at a church with 50 followers or even you and I at our best... The key is that he was irresponsible, and he lied, he lied about the govt telling the troops to shoot and kill black people, and lies hurt, I mean you guys hold the president accountable for lying or so called lying, why shouldn't kayne? I mean should only the president's feet be held to the fire..

again we are not talking about bush, if kayne is wrong then bush being wrong does not make what kayne did right? for that matter lets go down the list of every president and congressman, and crooked judge, and talk about how they hurt others by their lies and deciet, so we can minimalize kayne's irresponsibleness even more....


THANK YOU TKF!!!!! That last sentence is the whole point...Kanye's irresponsibility is being minimilized....Perfectly worded.
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Bippity10
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9/13/2005  3:44 PM
Things will remain this way for black people until we stop calling for group think. Until we stop voting for Democrats just because they are democrats. Until we stop voting for mayors and governors just because they are democrat or minority and start voting for people that EARN our votes through good leadership. These leaders do just enough for us to keep us happy in the short run and in the end we get screwed. We need to stop this line of logic where every black person has to think a certain way or else they are not black. Diversity of thought is what makes people great. How can we have diversity in America if we don't allow ourselves to have diveristy of opinion. Blcks should be split on whether this is racist or not. If a black person does not agree than his opinion should be respected and he should not be threatened with the "sell-out" LABEL.

That being said I definitely think there is a racial as well as a economical component to this. If you disagree I feel you are naive. There would not be a slow response in Beverly Hills. This is not new and I can't believe people are surprised by this. As blacks and poor the only way is to stop relying on govt to save us. Stop waiting for handouts. Because they will not save you(as NO has shown us). Save yourself. Do the right things to make your own money and earn an education so that you don't have to rely on the govt to save you. This should be a wake up call to all of us. Make these politicians earn our votes.

As for Kanye. Message to all: STOP LISTENING TO THE OPINIONS OF CELEBRITIES.I agree that there is a racial component. I don't know if Bush is racist. He may be. He may not be. He just may be a poor leader. But what I do know is that a friggin fund raiser is not the time to further your own personal agenda.

Why is it that everyone is blaming Bush when the levees have been poorly built for 30 years? Why are all the other non-leaders getting a pass? Is it just because people hate Bush? We never seem to get to the root of the problem. Blaming Bush is too easy. If he takes the fall everything will be better? Nope. A new president will make it all better because Bush is racist? Nope. Until we turn politics into a leadership contest instead of a popularity contest, nothing will change

I just hope that people will like me
Nalod
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9/13/2005  4:07 PM
Well said!
OT: Rappers stepping up.

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