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Jerome James playoff series against Spurs
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BRIGGS
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8/23/2005  10:20 AM
Posted by KNICKSdom:

Oh boy. Give JJ a break. He is coming into a situation where he is needed the most (center) and it is going to be a new system. He is a late bloomer and I think he will be allright in NY barring any injuries.


I never slammed JJ, i simply projected out the numbers he should average. I kept seeing he was going to average 7-8 rebounds, but statistically speaking, it highly unlikely.
When we project, I think we can look at 24 minutes 8.5 pts 4.5 reb 1.5 blocks, not terrible. But theoutlandish 12 pts 8 reb on avg--thats out there--he certainly could do that, but the next game hed likely put up 3 points 2 rebb 6 fouls
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BRIGGS
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8/23/2005  10:26 AM
Calvin Booth put up the same numbers as James when the two subbed for each other in 03, maybe we should get Booth as our 3 rd C, albeit for 29 MILLION less
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rvhoss
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8/23/2005  10:28 AM
I see him getting more rebounds than points, but the 8.5 makes sense. Two put backs (or offensive boards and bucket), 3 points from the line and 2 feeds from marbs.

I think 7 - 10 boards is possible, but most of nazr's were from his misses, however, I see him getting 3 offensive and 5 - 7 defensive per game.

It's just a different style of play, where everyone plays to their strengths. His will be boards and defensive positioning, which will result in ... well, results.


[Edited by - rvhoss on 08-23-2005 10:28 AM]
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rvhoss
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8/23/2005  10:29 AM
Who is calvin booth?
Posted by BRIGGS:

Calvin Booth put up the same numbers as James when the two subbed for each other in 03, maybe we should get Booth as our 3 rd C, albeit for 29 MILLION less


all kool aid all the time.
Bonn1997
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8/23/2005  12:19 PM
What he did against Tim Duncan and one of the best (if not the best) defensive team in the league is how we're supposed predict JJ's season stats. Why not just admit it that there are tons of contradictory pieces of info you could use to predict his stats and the truth is we have zero clue what we'll get from him?
fishmike
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8/23/2005  12:23 PM
how does a 5 year career = zero clue? Someone's got zero clue...
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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8/23/2005  12:27 PM
Posted by fishmike:

how does a 5 year career = zero clue? Someone's got zero clue...
that was pretty predictable. We've been going over this all offseason. Sure that's one piece of info (and apparently the only one you can focus on), but then there's also the tremendous playoff stretch he had and the fact that Larry Brown often brings out the best in players.

fishmike
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8/23/2005  12:35 PM
maybe because its the biggest piece? One 4 game stretch from = great info (against a Brad Miller with a sprained knee and no CWebb). One 4 game stretch from Briggs = useless because he was going against a good defense (god forbid) and a 268 game stretch = "just one piece of information"

Did I miss anything?

Hey... I like JJ on this team and I hope he plays well. To bad we have him for 5 years, probably about 4 years longer than we will actually need him
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
islesfan
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8/23/2005  12:44 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:

how does a 5 year career = zero clue? Someone's got zero clue...
that was pretty predictable. We've been going over this all offseason. Sure that's one piece of info (and apparently the only one you can focus on), but then there's also the tremendous playoff stretch he had and the fact that Larry Brown often brings out the best in players.


Why don't you make a poll on RealGM to see if people would rather put more stock into JJ's entire career or a small sample size of 1 playoff run? Don't forget to tell people that they should ignore everything they know about statistics and the importance of sample size whenever they vote for using his entire career.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
gunsnewing
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8/23/2005  12:50 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by KNICKSdom:

Oh boy. Give JJ a break. He is coming into a situation where he is needed the most (center) and it is going to be a new system. He is a late bloomer and I think he will be allright in NY barring any injuries.


I never slammed JJ, i simply projected out the numbers he should average. I kept seeing he was going to average 7-8 rebounds, but statistically speaking, it highly unlikely.
When we project, I think we can look at 24 minutes 8.5 pts 4.5 reb 1.5 blocks, not terrible. But theoutlandish 12 pts 8 reb on avg--thats out there--he certainly could do that, but the next game hed likely put up 3 points 2 rebb 6 fouls



he either turned the corner and is ready to average 11/8/2 or he still can't stay out of foul trouble and will average his 4/4/1.7 He is skilled. Once he figures out how to stay on the floor he's bound to put up close to a double-double. There is no inbetween if he's going to be foul prone. Whatever it is he gives us won't really matter all that much what matters is that he clogs the lane, block shots, rebounds some & sets great picks and scores when called upon occasionally.


[Edited by - gunsnewing on 08-23-2005 12:55 PM]
fishmike
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8/23/2005  12:52 PM
hopefully its turn the corner
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
technomaster
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8/23/2005  1:01 PM
We're using the Primoz Brezec argument here. Prior to last season, Brezec's career production had dropped across the board in all the major statistics over his first 3 seasons (from 2ppg to 1.6ppg)...

BAM. Starter minutes and a major role in the offense, he was a top 5 fantasy center last season w/ the Bobcats, averaging 13ppg/7.4rpg, all while nursing an injured shooting elbow.

It's not exactly the same type of situation, but like many players... when you give them scoring opportunities, it lifts their entire games-- helps keep them motivated on the floor.

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
BRIGGS
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8/23/2005  1:25 PM
[quote]
Posted by technomaster:

We're using the Primoz Brezec argument here. Prior to last season, Brezec's career production had dropped across the board in all the major statistics over his first 3 seasons (from 2ppg to 1.6ppg)...

BAM. Starter minutes and a major role in the offense, he was a top 5 fantasy center last season w/ the Bobcats, averaging 13ppg/7.4rpg, all while nursing an injured shooting elbow.

It's not exactly the same type of situation, but like many players... when you give them scoring opportunities, it lifts their entire games-- helps keep them motivated on the floor.


Well, the big difference there is JJ has been a starter for a few years now. The big problem with JJ is his slow reaction time, which is why he is not a great rebounder, and a big reason why he fouls so much. His fouls arent a fundamental flaw for the most part, it's timing due to his physical nature
RIP Crushalot😞
Bonn1997
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8/23/2005  1:29 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

[quote]
Posted by technomaster:

We're using the Primoz Brezec argument here. Prior to last season, Brezec's career production had dropped across the board in all the major statistics over his first 3 seasons (from 2ppg to 1.6ppg)...

BAM. Starter minutes and a major role in the offense, he was a top 5 fantasy center last season w/ the Bobcats, averaging 13ppg/7.4rpg, all while nursing an injured shooting elbow.

It's not exactly the same type of situation, but like many players... when you give them scoring opportunities, it lifts their entire games-- helps keep them motivated on the floor.


Well, the big difference there is JJ has been a starter for a few years now. The big problem with JJ is his slow reaction time, which is why he is not a great rebounder, and a big reason why he fouls so much. His fouls arent a fundamental flaw for the most part, it's timing due to his physical nature
James has started for 160 games spread out over some seasons. He's played five total years, whereas Brezec has played 4. James' reaction time is not great, but it's good enough for him to be an efficient shot blocker (which obviously requires quick reactions)
fishmike
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8/23/2005  1:46 PM
umm... not really, not when your 7'1

Alot of blocked shots can just be the result of bad perimeter D also. Hell, Nazr had 8 blocks.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
rvhoss
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8/23/2005  1:51 PM
Ummm...what he said.

Hey Fish and Isles, I was feeling good about the knicks, can you guys post something real quick to bring me back to earth.

Thanks in advance.
Posted by gunsnewing:


he either turned the corner and is ready to average 11/8/2 or he still can't stay out of foul trouble and will average his 4/4/1.7 He is skilled. Once he figures out how to stay on the floor he's bound to put up close to a double-double. There is no inbetween if he's going to be foul prone. Whatever it is he gives us won't really matter all that much what matters is that he clogs the lane, block shots, rebounds some & sets great picks and scores when called upon occasionally.


[Edited by - gunsnewing on 08-23-2005 12:55 PM]


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djsunyc
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8/23/2005  1:54 PM
i think we all just want jerome james to shut us the f ck up.

i still don't understand how so many people can rush to his defense or justify his play when he really hasn't shown anything over a sustained portion of his career, and for the latter part, as a starter.

all it comes down to is hope.

but there's a type of hope for a 23 year old that hasn't gotten it yet, and a type of hope for a 30 year old that hasn't gotten it yet.

whatever the case may be, at the end of the day, it's just HOPE.

i think you're all missing the point of all the "hater" arguments. i know he will help us. but he's a 20 min player - that's it. if we gave that money to gadzuric - awesome. if we gave that money to kwame - awesome. but we gave it to big snacks - that's not awesome.

now it's his turn to shut me the f ck up.
rvhoss
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8/23/2005  1:57 PM
thanks dj...that's what I needed.
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fishmike
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8/23/2005  1:58 PM
rv.. are you like 13? Why do you have such a hard time being realistic? We have good young players, we have good rookies, we have a coach that can teach, and teach DEFENSE. We have a kid in Nate the likes of which the league has never seen. I'm looking forward to a number of things. It doesnt mean I have to sit here and pretend that the bad moves the GM does make wont hurt or will magically become great moves.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
rvhoss
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8/23/2005  1:59 PM
there you go fishy...just what I needed, and right on cue.

boo hoo.

do you feel better now that you vented?

The need of a tall girthy defender has been filled. We will be better than last year.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 08-23-2005 2:00 PM]
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Jerome James playoff series against Spurs
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