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NY Post: Knicks won't waive Houston
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crzymdups
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8/13/2005  11:44 AM
I'd cut Shandon and pray that Houston retires. I have no problem showing Allan some respect - he's earned THAT, if not the $100 million...
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toodarkmark
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8/13/2005  11:57 AM
I believe if Houston retired, than his salary would only count towards the cap for this year.

If Isiah had not traded for Mo Taylor and Malik Rose, Muhammed, Baker and Moochie would have come off our cap at the end of the this year. If we had not signed JJ, and found a way to unload Jerome Williams for lets say an expiring contract, or moved J Craw for one, our Salary Cap would have been near 40 million.

But whats done is done.
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gunsnewing
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8/13/2005  12:00 PM
Waive Rose. JYD is a SF who makes things happen in transition with his defense along with Ariza, nate & crawford. For me its eiher Shandon or get rid of one of the PFs. Rose has the worst contract out of the 6 or 9 of them so he'd be the 1st I'd waive. Then Houston retires, we let TT, Penny, Taylor and Shandon expire and we're golden!
Silverfuel
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8/13/2005  12:02 PM
Posted by toodarkmark:

I believe if Houston retired, than his salary would only count towards the cap for this year.
He wont retire. Houston has already said he is healthy to play next season. Look at articles a week before and after the new CBA. They are littered with Houston quotes that he is going to play net season. Either he was a lair then or he is not going to retire now.
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gunsnewing
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8/13/2005  12:05 PM
he'll comeback for another 15-20 games then he'll sit out the year and hopefully then he will finally retire
Silverfuel
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8/13/2005  12:10 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

he'll comeback for another 15-20 games then he'll sit out the year and hopefully then he will finally retire
I dont care if we cut him, amnesty him, force him to retire or he stays on the roster. If the offense doesnt run around him (which it never will again) and we win more than we lose (which is a good possibilty with Larry Brown) I am a happy man.
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toodarkmark
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8/13/2005  12:16 PM
Well that was last week. Maybe at first he was emotional, but after talking to Dolan and Isiah, he may have had a change of heart. He's been paid ALOT the last two seasons, and has hurt us. Maybe he thought it through and didn't feel it was fair to put an organization through two more years of this. Maybe.

Maybe he wanted to do this on his own terms. I can hope he does, but in the end, it doesnt matter. Him reitirng, being cut, or staying doesnt do anything to bring an All Star PF here.

Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by toodarkmark:

I believe if Houston retired, than his salary would only count towards the cap for this year.
He wont retire. Houston has already said he is healthy to play next season. Look at articles a week before and after the new CBA. They are littered with Houston quotes that he is going to play net season. Either he was a lair then or he is not going to retire now.
I don't care what people think. People are stupid. - Charles Barkley
oohah
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8/13/2005  12:22 PM
I think Isiah wants to keep Houston so he can trade his contract in the final year, thereby getting something for him.

oohah

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Silverfuel
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8/13/2005  12:24 PM
Posted by toodarkmark:

Well that was last week. Maybe at first he was emotional, but after talking to Dolan and Isiah, he may have had a change of heart. He's been paid ALOT the last two seasons, and has hurt us. Maybe he thought it through and didn't feel it was fair to put an organization through two more years of this. Maybe.
I see what you mean. That is a distinct possibility and probably true. What is annoying though is that he needed to be convinced by Dolan and Isiah that its not fair "to put an organization through two more years of this". What is also annoying is that he said he was healthy and will play for another two years leading fans to believe he might sign with Detroit or NJ.

Now he is basically saying that was all false, that he is infact not healthy yet and will make a final decision on his health in October! In July he was healthy, in August he syas he will tell us in 2 months. I cannot wait to move on!
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BRIGGS
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8/13/2005  12:26 PM
if houston retires, thats one thing--then it's fiscally irrelevant.

but if they retain houston, i would be shocked if it asn't shanden andersen's salary--there is nothing there but savings of 17mm$ there is no ending contract, there is no player--its just money


i couldnt imagine that they are even condiering waiving mo or malik--we JUST acquired them! wouldnt make an iota of sense.
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gunsnewing
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8/13/2005  12:31 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

if houston retires, thats one thing--then it's fiscally irrelevant.

but if they retain houston, i would be shocked if it asn't shanden andersen's salary--there is nothing there but savings of 17mm$ there is no ending contract, there is no player--its just money


i couldnt imagine that they are even condiering waiving mo or malik--we JUST acquired them! wouldnt make an iota of sense.

but we only have to put up with 1 more year of shandon as opposed to 3 more years of Rose. Waive him and let the Spurs claim him and all will be well. That way after TT/Penny/Shandon/H20/Taylor are gone the only bad contract we'll have during the 2007/08 season is JYD and he's a guy who is good for team chemistry. We should be under the cap and able to acquire a top FA even with Marbury's $20+mil on the books





[Edited by - gunsnewing on 08/13/2005 12:36:30]
Knight
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8/13/2005  12:35 PM
If we use the exemption on Shandon then obviously winning is more important to Dolan than saving some money. The only thing we get by waiving Rose is money which can't be used for other players and another team gets a player who we are paying for.
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crzymdups
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8/13/2005  12:37 PM
Rose isn't good for chemistry? People in the SPurs organization CRIED when he left. CRIED.

Absolutely no way Rose gets waived, he's the ultimate professional, team player. Brown will love him.

Waive Shandon, convince Houston to retire before he plays a game and we'll get a trade exception for him (I believe).
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gunsnewing
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8/13/2005  12:37 PM
Posted by Knight:

If we use the exemption on Shandon then obviously winning is more important to Dolan than saving some money. The only thing we get by waiving Rose is money which can't be used for other players and another team gets a player who we are paying for.

oh right I'm sorry the money doesn't come off the cap so its pointless Then it will have to be Shandon
gunsnewing
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8/13/2005  12:38 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

Rose isn't good for chemistry? People in the SPurs organization CRIED when he left. CRIED.

Absolutely no way Rose gets waived, he's the ultimate professional, team player. Brown will love him.

Waive Shandon, convince Houston to retire before he plays a game and we'll get a trade exception for him (I believe).

he will love him so much that he will make him our starting PF for the next 3yrs. Thats my biggest concern
crzymdups
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8/13/2005  12:42 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by crzymdups:

Rose isn't good for chemistry? People in the SPurs organization CRIED when he left. CRIED.

Absolutely no way Rose gets waived, he's the ultimate professional, team player. Brown will love him.

Waive Shandon, convince Houston to retire before he plays a game and we'll get a trade exception for him (I believe).

he will love him so much that he will make him our starting PF for the next 3yrs. Thats my biggest concern

yeah, I don't like Rose, but you can't argue that he's a solid defender and great locker room pressence.

for the all the talk of how great KT was (I know you didn't like him, guns), the dude was a clubhouse SOURPUSS. With Q and NAte and Malik and JYD, Isiah is starting to change the culture of introverted, selfish guys - (I'd put Shan in the selfish category too). I'm not saying they're great players, but sometimes the right attitude can really change the culture of a team.
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gunsnewing
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8/13/2005  12:49 PM
I don't see what Rose does or did for our team chemistry. As soon as he gets in the game he starts demanding the ball inside and gets blocked or occasionally sinks a jumper. A 6-4 PF with limited skills can only do so much. I actually see results wth JYD. He has an uplifting spirit when he gets in the game good things happen. We force turnovers and score in transition and he can defender both SFs and quicker PFs well. The Garden loves JYD and so do his teammates. Rose doesn't make anyone better JYD makes Ariza better and will likely do the same for Lee and Nate. I realize Rose the kind of player Larry can get the most out of but how far will we go with Rose as our best frontcourt player? The thought of Rose taking on KT's role of 35mins a night for 3yrs really scares me.

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 08/13/2005 13:12:56]
tomverve
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8/13/2005  1:06 PM
Rose is supposed to be good not so much for on court chemistry as for the personality he brings to the locker room, the contribution he makes to the overall psychological aura of the team. It's difficult to get a read on exactly how much such things matter, and also hard to get a read on exactly what each player brings in this regard.

We don't get to travel with the team 24/7, so our only access to what a player brings to the team mind-- beyond guesswork from on court results and interviews-- is bits and pieces that happen to fall through to us from the press. From these bits and pieces we knew that LJ was a great locker room guy, and apparently so are Malik and Q. How important is it? No one knows, but I think we can assume that it is indeed important in some way or another. Malik stays.

JYD has to stay also. He's a similar presence to Malik, and importantly, he's best buddies with Trevor Ariza (one can surmise as much judging by how the two were always talking and jumping around together on the Knicks bench). If I were Knicks brass, I would be careful not to carelessly mess with Ariza's head and plant seeds of unrest that could grow into a desire to leave the team. JYD stays.

Ultimately, if I had to waive someone on the roster and it's not Allan, I'd pick Mo. Kinda sucks since Mo is probably still our most slick and potent scorer on the low block, but there isn't any one player you can pick from the roster who we could ditch without some misgivings. But overall I'd rather even keep Mo and expunge Shandon's stain on the Knicks franchise a bit further. God, Shandon sucks.
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rain
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8/13/2005  1:10 PM
Rose played last year.. we won some games. Not a coincidence.
djsunyc
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8/13/2005  3:10 PM
well if allan isn't waived, then it comes down to either saving $$$ w/ shandon's deal or saving $$$'s AND get a roster spot.

depends on what they want to do. EVERYONE can get traded (as exhibited by eisley, spoon, etc.) - but sometimes it's better NOT to trade somebody just for the sake of doing it. waiving a player would prevent that.

i would force h20 to retire. if he says no, then waive him - CASE CLOSED. come on knicks, do the SMART THING for a change. i don't care if h20 is a 20 min player again - in the next two years, those 20 mins he gets with the nets or whichever "rival" that may be doesn't matter b/c we are not championship contenders. the fear he may go to a rival is so STUPID.

if he says no, then the next one to go is either malik or mo - based purely on $$$'s and years. at least with malik, we got picks back so we didn't move nazr for nothing. but if we waive mo, then we basically said the trade was for NOTHING except wasting money.

if they waive shandon - it's STUPID b/c we can't trade it, it's not a player, and it's not a roster spot. all that's saved is money.
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NY Post: Knicks won't waive Houston
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