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simple question--do you have expectations of making the playoffs next year?
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rvhoss
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8/9/2005  10:58 AM
What he said.
Posted by nixluva:

A BIG FAT YES. I honestly don't see why some of you are so pessimistic about the Knicks chances of doing well this year. We have Balance and depth. We certainly have more talent than we took into last season and it was widely held that we would win the Atlantic last yr.

Look i think this team was better than they showed last year but things just blew up. that happens. This year I just don't see that happening. LB has avg 10 or more game improvement over his career. You can't count Detroit cuz they were already good. But weak teams that he's taken over usually do MUCH better in his 1st year.

I'd like to also remind you that this team had good records against the Sixer & WIz. We had some wars with the Bulls, so they weren't exactly stomping on us. We had poor mathups with Boston & NJ, but I think we'll do better this year against those team. Only Miami, Indiana & Detroit are significantly better than the Knicks. We have a good shot against all the other teams.

Physically there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to play better D than we did last yr. I'm not expecting aything great. Just more effort and consistency, with the occasional burst of great D at the right time in a game. I'm not worried about the offene. We were 14th in scoring & 12th in FG% last year and we didn't have the team we have now. We have guys comingg off the bench who will be like wild beasts. N8, Ariza, Frye & JC !!! Those guys are some pretty fast and quick handed players. I see a lot of Steals, Blocks & Fastbreaks.
all kool aid all the time.
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bobs3304
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8/9/2005  11:00 AM
^ What RV Hoes said...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
BRIGGS
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8/9/2005  11:14 AM
ok, but we can agree that this is not rebuilding--that this team is a go--that no excuses can be made here, for ANY reason--that we have as many young players as the Miami Heat, that we still have 8 guys on the roster now who will be 29 or older during the basketball year, we have a blend of veteran + youth. We have a coach who is being paid 10mm a year+ for 5 years and personally I EXPECT solid, solid contributions out of James and frye, knowing that we bought james although he has a very bad history of DNPs due to a variety of reasons and very little in terms of regular season production for his career--- that we took Frye over Bynum because Frye will be better now AND 3-4 years from now. That we expect Frye to help improve the team NOW, not 4 years from now.

The expectations that I put on this is that it works out, has to, and iF it doesnt, than possible ramifications need to be looked at seriously.
I want there to be pressure on jobs, it's a big boy business that deamnds results, especially at this salary level. No more excuses--no injury crp, no youth crp, no cohesion crp----success within reason--meaning 41-45 wins and showing up and winning games in the playoff THIS YEAR.

RIP Crushalot😞
bobs3304
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8/9/2005  11:28 AM
^ that was beautiful man.

kinda makes me wanna go nuts like Joe Swanson from Family Guy:


"COMEON! GET SOME! GET SOOOOOME!!!"


All this bull$hit from Isiah saying we're "rebuilding" is just to save face. He knows his ass is on the line. People WILL be losing jobs if we suck again this year, that's for ****in sure.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Pharzeone
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8/9/2005  11:28 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

ok, but we can agree that this is not rebuilding--that this team is a go--that no excuses can be made here, for ANY reason--that we have as many young players as the Miami Heat, that we still have 8 guys on the roster now who will be 29 or older during the basketball year, we have a blend of veteran + youth. We have a coach who is being paid 10mm a year+ for 5 years and personally I EXPECT solid, solid contributions out of James and frye, knowing that we bought james although he has a very bad history of DNPs due to a variety of reasons and very little in terms of regular season production for his career--- that we took Frye over Bynum because Frye will be better now AND 3-4 years from now. That we expect Frye to help improve the team NOW, not 4 years from now.

The expectations that I put on this is that it works out, has to, and iF it doesnt, than possible ramifications need to be looked at seriously.
I want there to be pressure on jobs, it's a big boy business that deamnds results, especially at this salary level. No more excuses--no injury crp, no youth crp, no cohesion crp----success within reason--meaning 41-45 wins and showing up and winning games in the playoff THIS YEAR.
I think you hate the fact that the roster is not in your imagine. I think if Bynum was a Knick you would be the first to make excuses for him. I think that if Kwame was a Knick you would be making excuses for him. That's all. I think it is perception rather anything else. Hell if the Lakers don't make the playoffs do you think jobs should be on the line, there?
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
islesfan
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8/9/2005  11:28 AM
I expect the Knicks to compete for one of the last 3 playoff spots next year.

I expect the Knicks to compete for one of the last 3 playoff spots the year after.

I expect the Knicks to compete for one of the last 3 playoff spots the year after that.

Get the picture? We're in the no man's land of mediocrity because we lack the flexibility to acquire the difference makers that separate the contenders from the pretenders. Draft picks, free agents like JJ and role players who are counted on for more than they can do, like Q and Jamal, are the best we can hope for.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bonn1997
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8/9/2005  11:43 AM
How can you be stuck when the MAJORITY of the players on your roster are young guys 19 to 25 with nice upside?
nixluva
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8/9/2005  11:49 AM
Posted by islesfan:

I expect the Knicks to compete for one of the last 3 playoff spots next year.

I expect the Knicks to compete for one of the last 3 playoff spots the year after.

I expect the Knicks to compete for one of the last 3 playoff spots the year after that.

Get the picture? We're in the no man's land of mediocrity because we lack the flexibility to acquire the difference makers that separate the contenders from the pretenders. Draft picks, free agents like JJ and role players who are counted on for more than they can do, like Q and Jamal, are the best we can hope for.

I don't agree. For one thing we have expiring contracts and draft picks to deal. Its not only about cap space. Besides any bigtime player that we'd want is more likely to come by trade and the team they come from will like the fact that we have a bevy of young players, exp contracts and picks to make a deal happen.

I don't think LB will stagnate with this team. I think they'll get better each year just as his other teams have. Unless you have Duncan or Shaq no team is really head and shoulders above the rest anyway. Who is it exactly that we're gonna get who could assure us of being better than a Shaq or Duncan led team? We stand a better chance at being more like Detroit. A lot of really good players but no ultra superstar.
Pharzeone
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8/9/2005  11:50 AM
Posted by bobs3304:

^ that was beautiful man.

kinda makes me wanna go nuts like Joe Swanson from Family Guy:


"COMEON! GET SOME! GET SOOOOOME!!!"


All this bull$hit from Isiah saying we're "rebuilding" is just to save face. He knows his ass is on the line. People WILL be losing jobs if we suck again this year, that's for ****in sure.
As long as the Knicks continue to sell out the arena, IT, Steve Mills, James Dolan are safe. Remember James is on the line too. Cablevision BOD is more concern about the bottom line than winning championships. Hell look at the Nets, you can go to back to back finals and still not sell out. New owner points this out and say lets not spend so much. Crowds gets worst so Thorn is allow to spend more. That's the reason Layden was let go, not because of losing but the lost of season tickets.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
BRIGGS
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8/9/2005  11:59 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by BRIGGS:

ok, but we can agree that this is not rebuilding--that this team is a go--that no excuses can be made here, for ANY reason--that we have as many young players as the Miami Heat, that we still have 8 guys on the roster now who will be 29 or older during the basketball year, we have a blend of veteran + youth. We have a coach who is being paid 10mm a year+ for 5 years and personally I EXPECT solid, solid contributions out of James and frye, knowing that we bought james although he has a very bad history of DNPs due to a variety of reasons and very little in terms of regular season production for his career--- that we took Frye over Bynum because Frye will be better now AND 3-4 years from now. That we expect Frye to help improve the team NOW, not 4 years from now.

The expectations that I put on this is that it works out, has to, and iF it doesnt, than possible ramifications need to be looked at seriously.
I want there to be pressure on jobs, it's a big boy business that deamnds results, especially at this salary level. No more excuses--no injury crp, no youth crp, no cohesion crp----success within reason--meaning 41-45 wins and showing up and winning games in the playoff THIS YEAR.
I think you hate the fact that the roster is not in your imagine. I think if Bynum was a Knick you would be the first to make excuses for him. I think that if Kwame was a Knick you would be making excuses for him. That's all. I think it is perception rather anything else. Hell if the Lakers don't make the playoffs do you think jobs should be on the line, there?


Doesn't matter what anyone of us thinks, we dont make decisions for the team. Peronally I dont compare what Bynum and frye will do in the next 2 years, I doubt Bynum will barely play. It wasnt about picking a guy who could help the team now, it was taking a reasonable chance on getting a risk on what I believe will be a franchise type C in the future. We have James and Frye, the Lakers have Brown and Bynum. I think that we couldve been in the other situation, and yes I would have rather it been so. So we took the guys who can go NOW the 30 yO C and the 4 yR CBB player--they better produce.
RIP Crushalot😞
rvhoss
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8/9/2005  12:04 PM
I am 100% confident in Frye and Lee.

Their committment to 4 years of college is Larry Brown city.

I've tried to sneak this in, but I think Lee has a chance to back up Rose at the 4. I don't think crawford is starting, I think he's going to be on the bench with Brown and watching what brown's watching then head to the floor to spell one of hte guards.

TT will start, Ariza will back him up and Craw will spell the two guard positions. (I know, I've said this before)...

But, with Frye and Lee coming from good programs where they put in the effort to learn the game and not get the bucks...

Rose/Lee
James/Frye

That's my front court of the future. Also, Frye will average more minutes than James after the all star break.

I'm praying TT steps up under LB, but if he doesn't...who cares.

Marbs/Craw
Q/Craw
TT/Ariza/Q
Rose/LEE
James/FRYE

me likey alot

The above tight rotation get's us to the second round IMHO.
all kool aid all the time.
nixluva
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8/9/2005  12:05 PM
technically we are rebuilding, just not in the traditional sense. We didn't back up the truck and gut the team. However, we had 3 picks this year and more likely come next year. We'll be losing some vets over the next 2 yrs and the team will then be almost fully turned over with young players.

It amazes me how long people hold onto the past. THIS is not last year or the years before that. This teams avg age is now about 25 yrs old. That includes all the guys who are on their way out.
islesfan
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8/9/2005  12:13 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

Marbs/Craw
Q/Craw
TT/Ariza/Q
Rose/LEE
James/FRYE

me likey alot

The above tight rotation get's us to the second round IMHO.

Just wondering but who do you see that rotation beating in the first round? Just name a few teams.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
tkf
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8/9/2005  12:13 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

ok, but we can agree that this is not rebuilding--that this team is a go--that no excuses can be made here, for ANY reason--that we have as many young players as the Miami Heat, that we still have 8 guys on the roster now who will be 29 or older during the basketball year, we have a blend of veteran + youth. We have a coach who is being paid 10mm a year+ for 5 years and personally I EXPECT solid, solid contributions out of James and frye, knowing that we bought james although he has a very bad history of DNPs due to a variety of reasons and very little in terms of regular season production for his career--- that we took Frye over Bynum because Frye will be better now AND 3-4 years from now. That we expect Frye to help improve the team NOW, not 4 years from now.

The expectations that I put on this is that it works out, has to, and iF it doesnt, than possible ramifications need to be looked at seriously.
I want there to be pressure on jobs, it's a big boy business that deamnds results, especially at this salary level. No more excuses--no injury crp, no youth crp, no cohesion crp----success within reason--meaning 41-45 wins and showing up and winning games in the playoff THIS YEAR.

I don't know briggs, we are rebuilding to some extent, we have 7 guys who will be 29 and older during the season. Penny, Houston, marbs, JYDTT, MO, Rose, James. 6 of those guys will not be here or contract has no more than 2 years after this one. we also have 7 guys on this team 25 and younger, 5 of them are 22 and younger, so we are rebuilding. It is not fair to look at the roster and single out a group of guys who will not be here, will be waived and will have no long term role with this team and say, this is the makeup of your team, ignoring the other 7 or 8 players... How you see this being similar to miami is beyond me...

[Edited by - tkf on 08/09/2005 12:30:21]
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Nalod
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8/9/2005  12:23 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

I am 100% confident in Frye and Lee.

Their committment to 4 years of college is Larry Brown city.

I've tried to sneak this in, but I think Lee has a chance to back up Rose at the 4. I don't think crawford is starting, I think he's going to be on the bench with Brown and watching what brown's watching then head to the floor to spell one of hte guards.

TT will start, Ariza will back him up and Craw will spell the two guard positions. (I know, I've said this before)...

But, with Frye and Lee coming from good programs where they put in the effort to learn the game and not get the bucks...

Rose/Lee
James/Frye

That's my front court of the future. Also, Frye will average more minutes than James after the all star break.

I'm praying TT steps up under LB, but if he doesn't...who cares.

Marbs/Craw
Q/Craw
TT/Ariza/Q
Rose/LEE
James/FRYE

me likey alot

The above tight rotation get's us to the second round IMHO.

I see Sweets starting. His job to lose. Minutes to TT really takes away from Reezy and Lee.

JYD is buried.
fishmike
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8/9/2005  12:30 PM
one note...
last year:
Marbury/Moochie
Houston/Crawford/Penny
TT/JYD/Ariza
KT/Sweetney
Nazr/Baker

Coming off a playoff berth we added Crawford and Ariza. TT had a solid 2nd half before he got hurt in the playoffs. Houston had made one semi successfull comeback before colliding with whoever and hurting the knee again. Vin Baker visited the Wizard of Oz and got a new heart. Ariza had great promise and after SL and camp looked like a 2nd round steal. Sweetney lost weight was looked great in the offseason. Crawford was the combo gaurd we needed next to Marbury and was great insurance for Houston. Penny showed he could still be a valuable bench player.

I heard things like great backcourt, super deep, players with upside, bla bla bla. Hell, I was pretty excited to be 15-12 after 1/3 of the season. Well as we all know we went on to win 33 games.

Now I like what we have done in this offseason but can anyone say have have added a single impact player? We lost our most productive and consistant frontcourt player. We added a SG who's shot < 40% for 3 years in a row, 3 rookies, a 30 year old center that misses tons of games and averages 3.6 fouls per 17 minutes and a HOF coach.

Man.. I REALLY want to believe this team has really turned a corner but why should I?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nixluva
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8/9/2005  12:37 PM
Posted by fishmike:

one note...
last year:
Marbury/Moochie
Houston/Crawford/Penny
TT/JYD/Ariza
KT/Sweetney
Nazr/Baker

Coming off a playoff berth we added Crawford and Ariza. TT had a solid 2nd half before he got hurt in the playoffs. Houston had made one semi successfull comeback before colliding with whoever and hurting the knee again. Vin Baker visited the Wizard of Oz and got a new heart. Ariza had great promise and after SL and camp looked like a 2nd round steal. Sweetney lost weight was looked great in the offseason. Crawford was the combo gaurd we needed next to Marbury and was great insurance for Houston. Penny showed he could still be a valuable bench player.

I heard things like great backcourt, super deep, players with upside, bla bla bla. Hell, I was pretty excited to be 15-12 after 1/3 of the season. Well as we all know we went on to win 33 games.

Now I like what we have done in this offseason but can anyone say have have added a single impact player? We lost our most productive and consistant frontcourt player. We added a SG who's shot < 40% for 3 years in a row, 3 rookies, a 30 year old center that misses tons of games and averages 3.6 fouls per 17 minutes and a HOF coach.

Man.. I REALLY want to believe this team has really turned a corner but why should I?

You know that last year was really dependent upon H2O being able to make it back and contribute, which he didn't and TT playing at least up to his normal standards, which he didn't for most of the year. Add to that the fact that we lost Penny who helped a lot in the 1st yr and then having Baker be a total waste. Now you have a team with rooks and minor league pick ups playing. There were valid reasons why this team was so bad last year.

This year we didn't add any great players, but I don't think we needed to. We just needed to sure up the holes in the roster which we did and to get a Coach which we did in spades.
Don't underestimate the impact of a great coach on a team. We do have talent on this squad and now a Coach who knows what to do with it. THIS IS NOT LAST YEAR!
bobs3304
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8/9/2005  12:39 PM
you shouldnt.....just yet. That's right, we don't have a single impact player after Marbury, and he still has work to do himself.

I keep saying this, but the roster isn't complete, so don't lose sleep over it just yet. but ya, with all this Kool-Aid going around b/c of Larry Brown, it def. is a concern.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
tkf
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8/9/2005  12:41 PM
Posted by fishmike:

one note...
last year:
Marbury/Moochie
Houston/Crawford/Penny
TT/JYD/Ariza
KT/Sweetney
Nazr/Baker

Coming off a playoff berth we added Crawford and Ariza. TT had a solid 2nd half before he got hurt in the playoffs. Houston had made one semi successfull comeback before colliding with whoever and hurting the knee again. Vin Baker visited the Wizard of Oz and got a new heart. Ariza had great promise and after SL and camp looked like a 2nd round steal. Sweetney lost weight was looked great in the offseason. Crawford was the combo gaurd we needed next to Marbury and was great insurance for Houston. Penny showed he could still be a valuable bench player.

I heard things like great backcourt, super deep, players with upside, bla bla bla. Hell, I was pretty excited to be 15-12 after 1/3 of the season. Well as we all know we went on to win 33 games.

Now I like what we have done in this offseason but can anyone say have have added a single impact player? We lost our most productive and consistant frontcourt player. We added a SG who's shot < 40% for 3 years in a row, 3 rookies, a 30 year old center that misses tons of games and averages 3.6 fouls per 17 minutes and a HOF coach.

Man.. I REALLY want to believe this team has really turned a corner but why should I?

I too was excited about last year fish, but we all knew that a lot of things had to go right, especially since we were dealing with aging and injured players at key positions. the possiblity of failure was just as fragile as us winning. This year is different, the foundation is younger, the coaching better and so is the talent. If anything we can be excited about the direction and actually having a future built around young talent. The sad thing about last year is that we could not tank if we wanted to because we didn't have enough young players on the bench to give time to. This year if all else fails, we can put 5 guys on the floor who are 23 years of age and younger and watch them mature and grow under a great teacher like brown. Better days are ahead for us...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
fishmike
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8/9/2005  12:49 PM
nixluva, I would love to share your optimism, and by no means am I saying that next year will be a failure. All I'm saying is that we have just as many question marks as we did last year. Also, its not like everything went wrong last year. Nazr put up great numbers early. Crawford also got off to a good start and hit a couple game winners. Marbury was awesome, etc etc

I'm excited that regardless of wins and losses we are becoming a young team, and there's a silver lining there.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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simple question--do you have expectations of making the playoffs next year?
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